Should you tip the waitress and how much thread

Eomer_sl said:

What? He was being a pussy. Do you disagree?

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I agree with that, but the rest of your post was retarded.

Agenor_sl said:

Just playing Devil's advocate, but how many people do you think lie about things on their taxes in general.

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Everyone does of course.

Draegan_sl said:

I agree with that, but the rest of your post was retarded.

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Sorry, ninja edited my response there with a further response to you.

Going back to the previous post that you say is "retarded", please explain how anything I said there was retarded.

My sister works at IHOP. On free pancake day she said it was nothing but stoners and because it was free no one tipped (18% of $0.00). Said she got $2.00 in tips for the entire 8 hour shift plus her under-minimum wage pay.

Draegan_sl said:

Valid points and questions.
First point, food costs would go up more than 10-15% if companies simply just took that chunk of change and put it into menu costs. So in the end, if you can deal with tipping 15% without changing the system, then you're going to get a less expensive dining experience.

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How do you figure this. At 15% tip you are still subsidizing the wages of servers from all the non-tipping assholes. As others have said, there is really no indication what you are suggesting would actually happen as evidenced by everywhere else in the world.

Yeah, large parties require work. Usually tables and seats need to be moved, extra attention devoted to that station, not to mention expediting the meal so that all 10-50 people get their shit at the same time...

But I have to know who the fuck charges 20% on top of your order as a general principle? Saw that pic and literally shook my head in disbelief.

I don't agree that prices would go up 15-20%. The reason being that wait staff don't make minimum wage currently. Eliminating tips would save me 15-20% off the top. Raising the employees from their current age to minimum (or minimum +, which is more likely) will end up being less than that.

For instance, I go to a restaurant and end up tipping 15% on a $30 check, or $4.50. In total, I'm paying $34.50.

Current minimum wage is $7.25, and I'll just say wait staff makes about $4/hr. We'll say the waiters here are going to be brought up above minimum, to $8. To do that, the restaurant needs to raise the average price of a meal $4.

My meal now costs $34, as opposed to $34.50. The restaurant also has to make up the difference in FICA, but the difference in wage is only $0.75, since they had to pay that out on minimum wage regardless (due to always having to pay minimum wage). In the end, I just don't see how costs are going to increase dramatically.

As far as service turning to shit because the staff aren't working for tips anymore, I think that's bunk too. What world do you live in that people can just be an asshole to other people and keep their job? It's like people are arguing that the workforce in restaurants is the lowest scum of the Earth, who are only somewhat amiable due to the prospect of a few extra bucks. It's ridiculous.

Elurin_sl said:

The reason being that wait staff don't make minimum wage currently.

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You live in Ca? I work in Fine Dining in Los Angeles and can assure you that servers make jack shit, and every single one starts at minimum wage.

Also minimum wage isn't $7.25, it's 8 bucks. That said, fuck servers.

The Ancient_sl said:

How do you figure this. At 15% tip you are still subsidizing the wages of servers from all the non-tipping assholes. As others have said, there is really no indication what you are suggesting would actually happen as evidenced by everywhere else in the world.

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Ummm bro, business 101. Food costs are more expensive abroad (without having any citation, just going on military bros being stationed in Japan and Europe). Not to mention under-reporting tips not only benefits and fucks the waiter at the same time, but PURELY benefits the restaurant! Why you might ask? Employer match of FICA. If an employee is underreporting income to skirt taxes, he therefor benefits the restaurant because they do not have to match as much if they were reporting actual income. Not to mention, my guess of what you would have to pay a waiter at a mid level restaurant, $30 dollar per plate average would be around $12-15 an hour. That is guaranteed income! Up from 2.14 an hour, or whatever it is nowadays. That is a hefty increase in the cost of doing business for the restaurant, because not only are they are having to pay their employees more, but they are having to pay more in taxes because they are paying a fixed hourly rate.

Ideally I would be for this, because I think most everyone is right, if you are paying people a set amount, and they are happy with it, you will get good service without being prejudged on whether or not you tip well. But will the businesses do it??? Hell to the fuck no, because their costs go up. Again business 101.

Glad you brought up food costs, Dis.

Most folks don't realize if gas goes up 15cents it has huge implications. When it goes up over a dollar? Suddenly my flour and butter (fuck butter) costs go through the roof.

Food, Inc. Is a much watch for anyone interested in this stuff.

Dis_sl said:

Ummm bro, business 101.

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Your basic argument boils down to businesses are benefiting by skirting taxes. Sounds like another reason to reform the system.

The Ancient_sl said:

Your basic argument boils down to businesses are benefiting by skirting taxes. Sounds like another reason to reform the system.

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Yea, nevermind I just also showed you having to raise wages from 2ish an hour to 12-15 an hour. I mean, that is meaningless as for as a labor wage increase

Dis_sl said:

Yea, nevermind I just also showed you having to raise wages from 2ish an hour to 12-15 an hour. I mean, that is meaningless as for as a labor wage increase

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That amount is already on your bill in the form of the tips that you are supposed to be paying. If the assumption is that your raise base pay to make the servers end of day take home roughly the same than the only real difference is the fact that now the income is being reported by the company and the server. And sales tax on the part of the consumer.

Lotta taxes being dodged in restaurants.

The Ancient_sl said:

That amount is already on your bill in the form of the tips that you are supposed to be paying. If the assumption is that your raise base pay to make the servers end of day take home roughly the same than the only real difference is the fact that now the income is being reported by the company and the server. And sales tax on the part of the consumer.

Lotta taxes being dodged in restaurants.

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Ill get back to you on this, have to go, but my argument is not against paying a living wage to waiters, my argument is food costs will go up, for people that tip or dont tip. The point being that tipping subsidizes the food costs involved, regardless if you tip or not. As some people in this board admit to not tipping or tipping very poorly.

The Ancient_sl said:

Lotta taxes being dodged in restaurants.

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Other than servers. How so? I'm genuinely curious.

Depends on the state. But in Ca, the only really ridiculous thing is that it's actually cheaper for me to lease BRAND NEW equipment (under LLC) than to buy old ones for the writeoff.

Dis_sl said:

Ill get back to you on this, have to go, but my argument is not against paying a living wage to waiters, my argument is food costs will go up, for people that tip or dont tip. The point being that tipping subsidizes the food costs involved, regardless if you tip or not. As some people in this board admit to not tipping or tipping very poorly.

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If tipping subsidizes food costs, the customers are the ones paying for it anyway. Why would food costs increase above and beyond what we're already subsidizing them?

Elurin_sl said:

If tipping subsidizes food costs, the customers are the ones paying for it anyway. Why would food costs increase above and beyond what we're already subsidizing them?

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The food cost wouldn't increase, likely you would be paying a services charge. There is also no way a chain restaurant will only charge you 8 bucks if they are paying that much out to servers. Your talking about an industry that has the most failures to begin with, chains never do things at cost.

Jait_sl said:

Other than servers. How so? I'm genuinely curious.

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I mean Dis went into it all above, but you have the employers not paying Unemployment on unclaimed wages and because you don't have the true operating expenses baked into the sales prices on the goods, that's state sales tax not being paid.

Granted the unemployment/fica shit works both ways. That unclaimed income isn't going to be coming back to you come Social Security time or if you ever show up at the unemployment office.

Ahh, gotcha. That's some shady shit though, might as well rob your next door neighbor and call it a tax break. I thought he meant legal ways to dodge taxes not outright ignore them.

We have compliance laws, and if I so much as miss a single break for one of my employees I'm probably going to get a call 6 months from now about it. Those fuckers need something else to do.