Slide Rules & Paleotechnology

tad10

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Tad please create an arithmetic thread and don't post your retarded opinions about slider rulers here.Also post what your career in mathematics involves.
Since you asked (spoilered for length):

I went back to school this year to get qualified for the Patent Bar so I'm taking a heavy math/science course load and was appalled to see students these days can't live without their graphing calculators (which either didn't exist when I last took Math or were in their most rudimentary form - been a while).

For homework, I solve everything pencil & paper and then if a numerical answer is required (note: we're talking calculus so majority of problems either don't have numerical answers or the numerical answer is tertiary to the calculus/algebraic manipulation so the final answer is something ridiculously simple and doesn't require calculation) I use a Ti-30 if the numerical answers require precision > 2 places (which is most of the time if I've got to calculate an answer) or slide rule if it doesn't and then use the other to check the answer. Homework is via WebAssign otherwise I would have asked the Prof to submit answers with slide-rule limited precision. One thing I am terrible at with respect to SRs is multiplying and dividing a series of numbers - always end up screwing up a gradation reading or using the wrong scale mid-way through and it is going to take a lot of practice to get better at that.

For tests, 90% is P&P and TI for whatever high-precision numerical answers there might be (not many) - slide rule would be a distraction in class- which is too bad because slide rules are fast for exponential functions.

Back on track

Title reflects the fact that slide rules are just part of a the whole range of paleotechnologies which are dead or dying because of progress and rational laziness. Film is an example of a current technology that is rapidly becoming a paleotechnology and will be one once the current generation of Filmmakers who still use Film are replaced by the kids in USC Film School who will likely shoot 100% or 99% on digital. Examples of other paleotechnologies (that I happen to be interested in) include the printing press, typewriter, steam trains and chromolithography.

With respect specifically to slide rules - folks still don't get the connection between slide rules and math education

if technology is what is slowing down math education then we should go back to using log tables. Slide rules are a technological advance that was created to make computations quicker and less tedious, same reasons numerous CAS exist. Of course reverting back to previous technology is retarded so it will not happen.

The reason math education does not reach the kids is because we teach nothing but shitty computations to them.Instead of exploring the logic underlying mathematics,kids are taught computations without any reasons for these computations.Memorizing formulas to compute meaningless shit is not going to inspire anybody.
Here is a pertinent quote from the NPR slide rule thread:

[Slide rules] give you a visual that numeric values are NOT linear. The first 1/10 is 1.26 while the last 1/10 is 7.95...
In other words you get a visual representation that the percent difference at 1.2 to 1.3 is much larger than between 8.0 & 8.5
From the Tufte thread:Edward Tufte forum: Analog clocks, sorobans, and slide rules

Using a slide rule promotes two activities that the use of a calculator does not: one is that one must always have in mind what the answer to a simple mathematical problem means. The other is that the slide rule displays what the answer is not, as well as what it is.
There's more of course - but the points are the same:
1. Visual display of the number line in an intuitive manner.
2. Necessity of tracking the decimal point
3. Necessity for error checking.

Calculators can't check for GIGO problems and the nature of calculators means that the user is not forced to check, with slide rules after a computation you have to run a quick sanity check on the result (usually done by rounding the numbers you've multiplied/divided/involuted/evoluted/etc and estimating).


Somehow I have the feeling that Tad sells Slide rules for a living.
I collect them and use one when I can, but if I had a couple of million I'd make a couple hundred new slide rules to my ideal scale design.


Computing Devices - Aristo Multilog Nr. 970 Simulator - Stefan Vorkoetter

A self-guided slide rule training course:

http://www.sliderulemuseum.com/SR_Course.htm

Background Videos on Slide Rules - The Very Basics.

1940's Instructional Video I Basics (Snooze time)

1940's Instructional Video II Proportions, Square and Square Roots (Coma time)

Modern Video: Log-Log Scales Briefly (Actually Interesting).
 

ZyyzYzzy

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Taf is an idiot. You are mentally unable to comprehend that a 0.1 difference between 1.1 and 1.2 is a greater porportion of those numbers than 8.2 and 8.3? You need t see it on some archaic fucking tool?
 

ZyyzYzzy

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Tad has bever dealt with logarithmic scales in excel? A slide rule is better for visualizing than excel, right?

Edit - a mod move this from science and technology, this device is old and archaic. My phone can shit out orders of magnitude more calculations per second than tad can do on his slide rule in a month.
 

Asshat wormie

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Da fuck kind of calculus class allows calculators during exams? Let me guess: "Calculus for Business".
 

iannis

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This thread rules.

I've also got a box of draftman tools that my grandfather had. All sorts of bizarre rulers.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
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Da fuck kind of calculus class allows calculators during exams? Let me guess: "Calculus for Business".
Lol. Have you not been following the original thread? Every calculus class everywhere, AFAIK - maybe Caltech and MIT do it differently, and in most cases graphing calculators - have you never seen James Stewart's Calculus textbook?
 

tad10

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This thread rules.

I've also got a box of draftman tools that my grandfather had. All sorts of bizarre rulers.
Drafting tools are very cool - no clue how to use them beyond a compass for circles/arcs. I've been meaning to buy a set from ebay for a while, just keep getting distracted by other things.

Two big things missing from the list of paleotechnology are records (and record players) & vacuum tube technology - I have a miniscule record collection that I'd like to expand but haven't found the time. With respect to vacuum tubes, they are actually "coming back" a little because of things like vacuum tube power amplifiers just being better - a good example of an analog technology that couldn't be properly replaced by digital technology.
 

Asshat wormie

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Lol. Have you not been following the original thread? Every calculus class everywhere, AFAIK - maybe Caltech and MIT do it differently, and in most cases graphing calculators - have you never seen James Stewart's Calculus textbook?
There is at least one non MIT or Caltech school that does not allow calculators. It is the school where I, somewhat recently, have taken Calc. I assure you it is not on any list of decent schools and yet calculators were not allowed. Only schools that allow calculators on math exams are schools offering shit math classes like the aforementioned "Calc for Business". Also, what exactly about Stewart's Calculus forces people to use calculators? It might be a bit computational heavy while lacking theoretical explanations but nothing in that book demands calculators.
 

tad10

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There is at least one non MIT or Caltech school that does not allow calculators. It is the school where I, somewhat recently, have taken Calc. I assure you it is not on any list of decent schools and yet calculators were not allowed. Only schools that allow calculators on math exams are schools offering shit math classes like the aforementioned "Calc for Business". Also, what exactly about Stewart's Calculus forces people to use calculators? It might be a bit computational heavy while lacking theoretical explanations but nothing in that book demands calculators.
You don't know what you're talking about:

rrr_img_79753.jpg
rrr_img_79754.jpg
 

ZyyzYzzy

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Yes tad because every calculus class follows a text book in its entirety and every teacher/professor assigns all sample problems in the entire text book
 

Joeboo

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Who is going to be our first abacus hipster? "I only use technology that pre-dates Christ"
 

Asshat wormie

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Yes tad because every calculus class follows a text book in its entirety and every teacher/professor assigns all sample problems in the entire text book
Tad is bringing up Stewarts Calculus because that is one of the more common textbooks used. However, just because there are a couple of questions that ask you to use CAS to solve, does not mean that every single question requires same to solve it. Furthermore, none of these questions are ever on the tests in any semi shitty or better math class.

Tad you see how the number of the exercises says 57-58? What is required to solve the other 50 or so questions? Any CAS involved there?
 

tad10

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Tad you see how the number of the exercises says 57-58? What is required to solve the other 50 or so questions? Any CAS involved there?
Dude, there are hundreds and hundreds of graphing questions early on and hundreds and hundreds of CAS questions later. Stewart even has a little graphic for it.
Some perspective:

AP Calculus AB Calculator Policy
The use of a graphing calculator is considered an integral part of the AP Calculus course, and is permissible on parts of the AP Calculus Exams. Students should use this technology on a regular basis so that they become adept at using their graphing calculators. Students should also have experience with the basic paper-and-pencil techniques of calculus and be able to apply them when technological tools are unavailable or inappropriate.

Graphing Calculator Capabilities for the Exams

The committee develops exams based on the assumption that all students have access to four basic calculator capabilities used extensively in calculus. A graphing calculator appropriate for use on the exams is expected to have the built-in capability to:
.Plot the graph of a function within an arbitrary viewing window
.Find the zeros of functions (solve equations numerically)
.Numerically calculate the derivative of a function
.Numerically calculate the value of a definite integral
@Joeboo - Unfortunately, it may be a while. Abaci don't really count as paleotechnology because they are still in heavy use in China and never went out of production like the slide rule, vacuum tubes, mentioned above.
 

Asshat wormie

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Dude, there are hundreds and hundreds of graphing questions early on and hundreds and hundreds of CAS questions later. Stewart even has a little graphic for it.
Some perspective:

AP Calculus AB Calculator Policy


@Joeboo - Unfortunately, it may be a while. Abaci don't really count as paleotechnology because they are still in heavy use in China and never went out of production like the slide rule, vacuum tubes, mentioned above.
Further quotes from that link:

Students should also have experience with the basic paper-and-pencil techniques of calculus and be able to apply them when technological tools are unavailable or inappropriate
A graphing calculator is a powerful tool for exploration, but students must be cautioned that exploration is not a mathematical solution. Exploration with a graphing calculator can lead a student toward an analytical solution, and after a solution is found, a graphing calculator can often be used to check the reasonableness of the solution.
And a whole paragraph i dont feel like quoting explaining that you need to actually show the steps taken and the reasoning for your solution. Anyway, I was laughing at a college course requiring calculators, you linked some high school shit. Why?
 

Silence_sl

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I got rid of my GPS unit and went back to sextant for navigation. It's one of the few things that requires no batteries, yet is loved by women.