Soccer 2017-2018
- Thread starter faille
- Start date
Incredibly boring games today.
Spain vs Russia highlights what is broken in soccer. Too easy to defend with 10 players, and then its a coin flip (penalty kicks). Defending is more about discipline and fitness, not necessarily skills with the ball, so mediocre teams can defend effectively against good teams.
It also doesn't help that Russian players are likely high on EPO.
I really hope Russia keep doing this crap and win the world cup on coin flips to troll soccer fans
Spain vs Russia highlights what is broken in soccer. Too easy to defend with 10 players, and then its a coin flip (penalty kicks). Defending is more about discipline and fitness, not necessarily skills with the ball, so mediocre teams can defend effectively against good teams.
It also doesn't help that Russian players are likely high on EPO.
I really hope Russia keep doing this crap and win the world cup on coin flips to troll soccer fans
Szlia
Member
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R
Razzes
I strongly disagree with your analysis of the Spain vs Russia match.
First thing first: Spain lead in that match and was unable to defend its lead.
Secondly, it is indeed difficult to score a goal against a well organized defense that is well positioned. Russia tried to play in a way that minimized the time they spent with a disorganized or out of position defense: you don't press high, you limit the number of people who take part in the offense, if you lose the ball while attacking, you foul as fast as possible to allow the team to get back into position, etc. This is a legitimate tactic against a spanish team that can make some great offensive combinations if they have space. The challenge for Spain was to create disorganization in the Russia defense, to find ways to put them out of position, and they failed.
Of course it is not easy to find cracks in a good 10 men defense. You need changes of pace in the passing, you need some crosses, you need some passes in the back of the defense for running players, you need off the ball movement, you need some long distance shots, you need attacking players who eliminate defenders in 1 on 1 or even 2 on 1.... So basically you need to deploy a whole array of attacking solutions, none of which was used by Spain. They just kept the ball, making lateral passes in the mid field to lure the russian (did not work) or slowly passed the ball around the defense, handball-style, hoping to create gaps with the left and right movements. It was all so slow and uninspired that an absurd 80% ball possession resulted in almost 0 scoring opportunities.
It should also be said that it is absolutely not trivial to defend well. It takes good communication, great discipline and solidarity. It also takes some defense-specific technical skills, because when you defend with two lines that are so low, just about any foul turns into a dangerous free-kick.
For my money, the russian victory had a big negative impact on the quality of the Croatia vs Danemark game, because, suddenly, playing Russia instead of Spain in quarter final sounded like a great opportunity for these two teams that rarely go that deep in the WC draw.
First thing first: Spain lead in that match and was unable to defend its lead.
Secondly, it is indeed difficult to score a goal against a well organized defense that is well positioned. Russia tried to play in a way that minimized the time they spent with a disorganized or out of position defense: you don't press high, you limit the number of people who take part in the offense, if you lose the ball while attacking, you foul as fast as possible to allow the team to get back into position, etc. This is a legitimate tactic against a spanish team that can make some great offensive combinations if they have space. The challenge for Spain was to create disorganization in the Russia defense, to find ways to put them out of position, and they failed.
Of course it is not easy to find cracks in a good 10 men defense. You need changes of pace in the passing, you need some crosses, you need some passes in the back of the defense for running players, you need off the ball movement, you need some long distance shots, you need attacking players who eliminate defenders in 1 on 1 or even 2 on 1.... So basically you need to deploy a whole array of attacking solutions, none of which was used by Spain. They just kept the ball, making lateral passes in the mid field to lure the russian (did not work) or slowly passed the ball around the defense, handball-style, hoping to create gaps with the left and right movements. It was all so slow and uninspired that an absurd 80% ball possession resulted in almost 0 scoring opportunities.
It should also be said that it is absolutely not trivial to defend well. It takes good communication, great discipline and solidarity. It also takes some defense-specific technical skills, because when you defend with two lines that are so low, just about any foul turns into a dangerous free-kick.
For my money, the russian victory had a big negative impact on the quality of the Croatia vs Danemark game, because, suddenly, playing Russia instead of Spain in quarter final sounded like a great opportunity for these two teams that rarely go that deep in the WC draw.
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Spain got their lead with a fluke goal, and lost it because of a very weak penalty. There were little if no scoring opportunities on both sides. Russia was terrible with the ball, couldn't do 2 passes in a row. Spain didn't take enough risks in Offense considering the ultra-defensive strategy of Russia, I agree with you. They've been guilty of that many times in the past world cups. But then again, I remember one time they got thrashed 5-1 by the netherlands because of counter-attacks.
I know it is not trivial to defend, and I'm not saying it is illegitimate to do that. I'm saying it is boring. My point is simply that it seems too hard to attack effectively against a 10 men defense. It is not just Spain, we saw this again and again with many great teams having troubles playing against 10men defense (ex: Germany vs anything). Of course, in theory there are ways to pierce a 10men def, but in practice it seems way too effective. There is too little space with 10 men on one half of the field.
Tbh I just hate when the defensive side wins, it triggers me.
I know it is not trivial to defend, and I'm not saying it is illegitimate to do that. I'm saying it is boring. My point is simply that it seems too hard to attack effectively against a 10 men defense. It is not just Spain, we saw this again and again with many great teams having troubles playing against 10men defense (ex: Germany vs anything). Of course, in theory there are ways to pierce a 10men def, but in practice it seems way too effective. There is too little space with 10 men on one half of the field.
Tbh I just hate when the defensive side wins, it triggers me.
Ossoi
Tranny Chaser
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Err no, Spain were extremely successful (one world cup and two euro Championships) playing that possession style, as were Barcelona. Stupid to think that inferior players should be more offensive and play into Spain's hands
That generation of Spanish players has peaked and that style is clearly no longer innovative or successful
Ossoi
Tranny Chaser
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Do you watch football outside of the international tournaments?
European leagues are dominated by a few clubs in each league with all of the wealth. It's common for lesser teams to play very defensively and usually the bigger clubs,, e.g.aforementioned Barcelona don't have trouble because they have the genuine star quality to create goals from nothing e.g. A peak Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, Villa etc
I support Liverpool who are a strong counter attacking and pressing team. It's known if you attack vs Liverpool then you risk losing the ball and conceding very very quickly, so teams play with a low block.
In 2016-17 Liverpool struggled vs the lesser teams, and did so again this season but not as much, because they found it difficult to score and couldn't defend vs set pieces which were the main scoring chances for the opposition.
Salah and Van Dijk helped Liverpool in attack and defence. The point is playing defensively and taking the 1-2 chances you get is a legit strategy for weaker teams
Jozu
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Russia deserved to go through. Their tactics might not be pleasing visually, or exciting, but starting 2 defensive mid fielders and 5 defenders behind them, was not just to stifle Spains attacking, it was a direct counter to the ticky taka football that propelled them to glory from 2008-2012.
They simply let Spain pass themselves out of stamina and ideas. 1100 passes for basically nothing.
Russia played the perfect match. They aren't going to be able to do that to Croatia though.
They simply let Spain pass themselves out of stamina and ideas. 1100 passes for basically nothing.
Russia played the perfect match. They aren't going to be able to do that to Croatia though.
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No, I don't watch soccer outside the Euro and World Cup. I know def+counter atk is a legit strategy goddamnit: the weaker team wins all the time doing this. It's just lame that in football you're never that far off 50/50 odds even when one of the team is complete trash with the ball and has 0 scoring opportunity in the whole game. It just seems broken to me. It's also incredibly boring.
I watched Spain victory in the Euro and World cup, and many of their wins weren't that decisive or convincing. Many of them 1-0 that could have easily ended in a coin flip penalty kicks at 0-0. It's telling that what you call extremely successful translated into something like 60% prob of winning per game against teamsthat had basically 0 scoring chance vs them. Seems broken to me. At least they could use "best of" format to tame that variance, like in NHL.