Someone should make a better alternative to EQ EMU

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PEQ is all expansions, p99 is not. We already explained this to you twice.
That doesn't justify the same messed up mobs and pathing on each server.

p99 is run by rogaine, eqemu loginserver is run by rogaine. That's why rogaine uses the eqemu loginserver only, instead of running private loginservers primarily or in tandem.

Also Rogaine doesn't give a fuck, which I pointed out to you already.

Which is exactly my point... Everything is run by one guy who doesn't give a fuck. So why waste a whole thread trying to convince me everything is perfect?

Your thread is akin to whining that the pyramid at Giza isn't being built fast enough when 100 people are working on it. Pitch in or be quiet. Nobody gets paid for this.

I saw the state of PEQ after AK went down and started helping out. It doesn't take technical ability to do database work, only an eye for detail.
Only you you are not building a wonder of the world, get over yourself and accept criticism. It is also something you have nothing to do with. You just seem to like being butthurt and precious which is common for EQ emu devs.

You don't need permission from anybody to start leveling characters on Live and start filling out a spreadsheet.

How is that going to help all the people who forgot their password so lose all their characters forever? Look at the eq emu forum, there are a million threads of this stuff and all get completely ignored.
 

tyen

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That doesn't justify the same messed up mobs and pathing on each server.

Yes it does dude. Rathe mountains, cazic thule, paw, every single loot table for almost every single mob in the entire game. There are 10s of thousands of differences between PEQ and P99.

Which is exactly my point... Everything is run by one guy who doesn't give a fuck. So why waste a whole thread trying to convince me everything is perfect?

Everything is not run by one guy. P99/Eqemu-Loginserver/Eqemu-website; is hosted by "one guy" who doesn't give a fuck.

You are confused. Also, perfection is unattainable because it is arbitrary.

How is that going to help all the people who forgot their password so lose all their characters forever? Look at the eq emu forum, there are a million threads of this stuff and all get completely ignored.

Bitch at rogaine.
 

Torrid

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Only you you are not building a wonder of the world, get over yourself and accept criticism. It is also something you have nothing to do with. You just seem to like being butthurt and precious which is common for EQ emu devs.

Wait, am I dev or do I not have anything to do with it? Make up your mind.

There is worthless criticism and there is constructive criticism. Perhaps you should learn the difference. "You're working too slow!" is not helpful.

You clearly underestimate the work involved. EverQuest is probably the most difficult of all games ever made to recreate. Clients go back to the Windows 98 days long before Direct X 9; the game is about to release expansion number TWENTY THREE; the game has over 500 zones; the game has thousands of AAs that modify as sorts of mechanics; much of the content is no longer available to examine; etc.

To give you some idea of the work involved, I'll explain how I parse NPCs.

Min Max hits are the easy part. You merely take off all shielding gear and sit down to get the max hit, then try to pick out the min hit or calculate it from the rest of the data.

Max hp is also simple to get.

Innate proc chances require letting the NPC hit you hundreds of times and hitting ctrl-f and counting the number of hits (including kicks/bashes) and the number of procs. You'd be surprised how many NPCs have procs.

Attack speed requires allowing the NPC to hit you for something like 10+ minutes while ducking and then running a script on the log. Casting Turgur's and dividing by 4 results in a more accurate estimate. Slow mitigating NPCs require playing with some numbers in a spreadsheet to get the mitigation value. NPCs that cast spells require more log time because spell casting screws with the attack timer.

Stuff like resist values starts to get more involved. In order to calculate resist estimates, you have to cast hundreds or thousands of spells on the NPC-- the more you cast, the smaller the margin of error. This process takes something like 2-3 hours per NPC, or more if low margins of error are a concern (such as Mith Marr's magic resist) Now imagine needing to do this for every single NPC in the game.

NPC offense and mitigation estimates are even more involved. NPC offense estimates require tanking an NPC using a character with known mitigation AC, which is basically a level 65 warrior or level 100 characters because the AC softcap for other class/level combos are unknown, and carefully counting all the AC on every worn item because the UI doesn't tell you the sum. Then you have to remove enough armor to try and get the mitigation AC somewhere in the ballpark of the NPC's offense value, and then you have to tank the NPC for 3+ hours while you bot heals on it. Then you parse the DI distribution and crunch some numbers to spit out an estimate. Mitigation estimates are similarly involved. Raid bosses become more tedious as you have to find them up in the first place and hope you don't get KSed. Some Time gods have different ATK/AC values at different stages of their scripts. That took awhile.

Then there are the immunity checks and aggro radii to measure. Special attack chances (flurry, rampage). Aggro behavior. The non-statistics concerns are of course loot tables, spawn groups, spawn chances and path grids. Just trying to estimate a spawn a chance for a single rare can waste 30 minutes of my life.

On top of this, further research is required to try and figure out if the NPC has changed over the years, which generally requires digging through logs or at a minimum reading allakhazam.

Even just trying to find respawn timers for bosses can take a stupid amount of time because that info is very hard to find if it's even available anywhere. Contradictory claims abound. Sony changed them all so Live is useless.

Perhaps you can start to see how recreating NPCs for emus takes far more work than Sony put it to make them.
 
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Bitch at rogaine.
Impossible, he lives in an ivory tower like Saddam Hussein, hence this thread to suggest someone could just go around him and do a better job of all this. Someone could do a better job of p99 as well, seeing as it is completely corrupt and ruined because of it.

Wait, am I dev or do I not have anything to do with it? Make up your mind.
You work on TAKP and have nothing to do with eq emu.

There is worthless criticism and there is constructive criticism. Perhaps you should learn the difference. "You're working too slow!" is not helpful.
Lol as if any EQ emu dev could ever be criticised and accept it... And I never mentioned slow, I just think it is too fractured a limited scope.

You clearly underestimate the work involved. EverQuest is probably the most difficult of all games ever made to recreate.
All the more reason to work together more and be more professional about it.

To give you some idea of the work involved, I'll explain how I parse NPCs.
None of this is what I was getting at in this thread though. There are some devs doing good work, but all your efforts only benefit one server that hardly anyone plays and any other server to come along afterwards will get no benefit from that work, and all the other servers get no use of each others tools. For example SOD gets help from Secrets yet they have lots of well designed content creation and editing tools that nobody else gets to use. TAKP has the best web interface with account creation and management, but nobody else has that. PEQ is trying to recreate EQ all by itself with very little help from anyone. Titan splintered off because they were butthurt about something or other. P2002 did the same. P99 coasts along taking everyones RMTs for manastones. Etc.. You really saying none of this could be done better?
 

pharmakos

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dude, one of your main complaints isn't about EQEmu and its login server, tho. you've been complaining a lot about the databases the servers use. and a lot of Torrid's work has been going back to improving PEQ.

and the plan (as far as i know) is that once TAKP is finished through PoP, they are going to release all of their stuff open source so that anyone can use it for their own server

they started out being open source, but quickly realized that being open source while in beta is going to splinter the community and make testing too difficult.
 

tyen

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Someone could do a better job of p99 as well, seeing as it is completely corrupt and ruined because of it.

People have been trying to get p99 source/db forever. Rogaine and Nilbog are dirty jews, this I agree with.


You work on TAKP and have nothing to do with eq emu.

Takp runs into the same problems as any other Eqemu server. I use a takp database on all my EQEMU builds instead of PEQ because of the era.

I told you that already too, so I'm not sure why you think Takp and Eqemu are two radically different things.

Lol as if any EQ emu dev could ever be criticised and accept it... And I never mentioned slow, I just think it is too fractured a limited scope.

The point of criticism is to persuade.

I just think it is too fractured a limited scope.

What you really mean is "Not enough servers are available that I want." Which is also not what everyone wants when you get down to it.

All the more reason to work together more and be more professional about it.

You were first saying that the same people do all the servers, and now you are saying it's too fractured.

None of this is what I was getting at in this thread though. There are some devs doing good work, but all your efforts only benefit one server that hardly anyone plays and any other server to come along afterwards will get no benefit from that work, and all the other servers get no use of each others tools. For example SOD gets help from Secrets yet they have lots of well designed content creation and editing tools that nobody else gets to use. TAKP has the best web interface with account creation and management, but nobody else has that. PEQ is trying to recreate EQ all by itself with very little help from anyone. Titan splintered off because they were butthurt about something or other. P2002 did the same. P99 coasts along taking everyones RMTs for manastones. Etc.. You really saying none of this could be done better?

Dude, this fucking paragraph right here.

This is like a whole new level of absolute retard that I haven't seen in a long time.

You are really doubling down on something you have no idea about, and it's like, super embarrassing for you.
 

Torrid

Molten Core Raider
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You work on TAKP and have nothing to do with eq emu.

Yeah, nothing. Except I told them how to fix slows which were using a completely wrong function. I told them how to fix partial spell resists. I told them how to calculate NPC double attack and dual wield rates. I outlined most of EQ's hate mechanics including how to calculate hate per spell cast. I outlined in great detail my melee mitigation and avoidance research (which took me a year) and gave an EQ Emu dev the C++ mitigation/avoidance code I wrote for TAKP. (his decompiles were crucial for my work)

I also make all of my parsing tools that I developed freely available and they are used by PEQ devs. I put all of my NPC data into a spreadsheet for several reasons-- one of which is for ease of sharing. PEQ devs get regular updates of this spreadsheet, which is probably something like 2000 man-hours of work.

but all your efforts only benefit one server that hardly anyone plays and any other server to come along afterwards will get no benefit from that work, and all the other servers get no use of each others tools...PEQ is trying to recreate EQ all by itself with very little help from anyone.

I'll explain something that people don't seem to realize: Cavedude and Robregen are the two top devs at PEQ. That's why they know what they are doing to begin with. They are also EQEmu admins. TAKP was started by and is run by PEQ developers. I started parsing NPCs and video recording zones before I knew TAKP would be a thing, intending it for PEQ. Hell Akkadius hangs out in our discord room. TAKP is hosted at the EQEmu datacenter.

PEQ will wholesale import data from TAKP where they can. It's already begun. TAKP being era focused with one client (well, two) to support makes developing 1000x easier/faster.

TAKP temporarily closed source because opening the source before it was complete turned out to be a bad decision. Imagine for a moment if anybody could start up a Project 1999 overnight. Everybody they banned (or were otherwise dissatisfied) would just start up another server and users would have no idea which one to play on. They don't pay attention. Every server would have 50 people on it; at least they would if it was open source from launch. Talentless people taking credit for work that wasn't theirs is also a really good way to demotivate developers.

I do however, hope that EQBrowser uses TAKP's database and code eventually. We don't want that GoD and Omens stuff, right?
 
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People have been trying to get p99 source/db forever. Rogaine and Nilbog are dirty jews, this I agree with.
But why can't someone else take over?

Takp runs into the same problems as any other Eqemu server. I use a takp database on all my EQEMU builds instead of PEQ because of the era.

I told you that already too, so I'm not sure why you think Takp and Eqemu are two radically different things.
I don't think they are radically different, that's kinda my point. But TAKP is like the chosen one of emus, everyone works on that, it has 24/7 GM support from people like Robregen himself etc, even though the server barely has 50 players. It has the best web tools of any server, and no other servers have anything like that. You can create an account easily without having to bend over to eq emus crappy system. You can report missing mobs and they are fixed asap. PEQ doesn't get any of that, and p99 has its own little army.

What you really mean is "Not enough servers are available that I want." Which is also not what everyone wants when you get down to it.
Not at all. There are not enough servers period and not enough players, but there could be. There is only 1 legit single character server and that is p99. I read about some other one but there was something crappy about it and when I tried it there was a population of 3 people every time I looked. And that's not an exaggeration, 3 people. There is only really 1 custom content server. etc.

Dude, this fucking paragraph right here.
What was wrong with any of that?

p.s. The point of criticism is to persuade.


Yeah, nothing. Except I told them how to fix slows which were using a completely wrong function. I told them how to fix partial spell resists. I told them how to calculate NPC double attack and dual wield rates. I outlined most of EQ's hate mechanics including how to calculate hate per spell cast. I outlined in great detail my melee mitigation and avoidance research (which took me a year) and gave an EQ Emu dev the C++ mitigation/avoidance code I wrote for TAKP. (his decompiles were crucial for my work)

I also make all of my parsing tools that I developed freely available and they are used by PEQ devs. I put all of my NPC data into a spreadsheet for several reasons-- one of which is for ease of sharing. PEQ devs get regular updates of this spreadsheet, which is probably something like 2000 man-hours of work.
That is good. But is anyone else doing stuff like that? Also if the parsing tools are shared, how about the account creation tools? EQ Emu accounts are so bad, and PEQ's handling of it is bad too. Try to convert an account to PEQ on their web page and it gives an SQL error. People have to do it from within the game and then it is 50/50 if it will work. And nobody will help anyone with any of this. I know people who forgot their password and their characters are lost forever, there is no ability to reset it or send a reminder etc.

Imagine for a moment if anybody could start up a Project 1999 overnight.
Not convinced this would be a bad thing. Yeah there would be 50 new ones right away but the best ones would rise to the top.
 
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Secrets

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If you think you can do it better, then do it better.

$0/hr isn't a living wage. It isn't even a wage. This is a free project that everyone does in their spare time.

You complain about pathing, but offer no solutions or algorithms that would fix the logic behind the code, despite it being open source.
You complain about broken databases, but have not contributed a single thing to the free database project you're complaining about.
You complain about the management behind said projects, but have never met a single one or approached a project to contribute.

If something costed you nothing, and you think you can do it better for free, do it.

Or accept what you've been given. I don't really care, just don't bite the hand that feeds you.

 
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It is that shitty attitude that leaves people missing characters and whatever else with no way to fix it. And expecting people to not criticize something unless they can do better themselves makes you sound about 2.
 

Secrets

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It is that shitty attitude that leaves people missing characters and whatever else with no way to fix it. And expecting people to not criticize something unless they can do better themselves makes you sound about 2.

It's even more shitty to act like a millenial who thinks they are entitled to stuff for free because they are 'god's gift to this planet', and anyone who disagrees with them is obviously two years of age.

Sorry that you can't do it. I can do it better than you can because you're too afraid to try. Better luck next life.
 

Louis

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God damn Qwerty you're one entitled moron. When can I login to your emu with a custom bedazzled login server?
 
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Tuco

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Serious question: What does an emulated EQ server have over the TLP servers?
 

pharmakos

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EQLive progression servers are not very challenging. there are too many modern mechanics that they have no way to roll back. they attempt to artificially add some challenge by buffing the raid bosses, but that's it. everything up to the raid bosses is a cake walk.
 
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It's even more shitty to act like a millenial who thinks they are entitled to stuff for free because they are 'god's gift to this planet', and anyone who disagrees with them is obviously two years of age.

Sorry that you can't do it. I can do it better than you can because you're too afraid to try. Better luck next life.
What is it with little nerdy programmers that they think they are gods? You aren't a god, you aren't the hand that feeds anything any more than some app developer 'feeds' his 50 customers. You fit in so well with the EQ dev supergroup of hall monitors. And yeah I can't program, yet somehow I sleep just fine.

God damn Qwerty you're one entitled moron. When can I login to your emu with a custom bedazzled login server?
Not entitled, just saying it like it is. People make an EQ Emu account and then lose all their characters if they forget their password. Get butthurt all you want but clearly this is shit. As is many other things about EQ emu and various servers.

Serious question: What does an emulated EQ server have over the TLP servers?
It depends on the server but TLP are stuck with modern EQ changes that suck the challenge out of the game. Also some emu servers let you multibox which is a big deal to some people. And some let you macroquest too which means you can run multiple characters at once and don't need the chore of casting all the buffs manually every 30 minutes or whatever, and it lets bots auto follow better. Some servers are locked in time but don't need to wait for the progression, it is already there. PEQ is like sandbox EQ, it is at some later expansion like OOW or something so there is tons of content, but you can play it however you want, multibox as many as you want or just 1, macroquest if you want or not. P99 is unique because it true to classic, no later expansion stuff, and slower xp. There is a server called EZ Server which has fast xp and easier mobs and buff bots etc. There are some others like that. And there are servers which are entirely custom content, so the zones look the same but all the mobs are different, different loot, and they are linked together differently, different lore and quests too and names for everything is different.

Although none of them are especially good imo, I've tried them all and never stuck with one. The only one I liked was EQ Mac which SOE shut down. Also Dalaya but that is dead.

you can see the list here:
EQEmulator - Server List
 
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pharmakos

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EQLive progression servers are not very challenging. there are too many modern mechanics that they have no way to roll back. they attempt to artificially add some challenge by buffing the raid bosses, but that's it. everything up to the raid bosses is a cake walk.

to expand on this -- there actually is one other way that EQLive progression servers artificially make things "harder"... despite the content being very easy to beat, EXP rates have been nerfed to all hell.

so less challenging (read: less engaging) content but you're forced to do it for longer...
 

Secrets

ResetEra Staff Member
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PEQ is like sandbox EQ, it is at some later expansion like OOW or something so there is tons of content, but you can play it however you want, multibox as many as you want or just 1, macroquest if you want or not. P99 is unique because it true to classic, no later expansion stuff, and slower xp. There is a server called EZ Server which has fast xp and easier mobs and buff bots etc. There are some others like that. And there are servers which are entirely custom content, so the zones look the same but all the mobs are different, different loot, and they are linked together differently, different lore and quests too and names for everything is different.

PEQ isn't a sandbox or a play server, it's a development server for their publicly hosted free database which happens to have players testing, contributing,
and perfecting content to be more like EQLive.

P99 has plenty of non-classic changes in it. PBAOE'ing, hate list mechanics, GM-enforced first to engage system, and selective nerfs to items they deemed too powerful for the 'raid scene'. These are all decisions made by management on that server.

EZ server doesn't have easier mobs. It's a box army server with tiered progression, heavy MQ2 usage allowed, and I'd not really even consider it EverQuest, it's more of a 'level up and control 6 or more characters' type of server. The name EZ is there to mislead the simple-minded to play on it due to the perception that it's an easy server. Seems like it's working.

"Someone should make a better alternative to EQ EMU"

If that 'someone' who was capable existed, and cared enough to do it for free, don't you think they would have done it by now?
Maybe consider starting a livejournal on how much your life sucks without the perfect EverQuest experience.