Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)

Daezuel

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Han Solo, the coolest rogue in the galaxy, becomes a single father loser that gets killed by his shit head son. Direct results of having a child and completely fucking it up are the death and destruction of everything he's ever fought for. How satisfying!
 
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a c i d.f l y

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a c i d.f l y

a c i d.f l y

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Royal said:
Well I said after I saw it was going to run hot and cold on it. There are things I really liked about it but that doesn't prevent me from seeing it's problems.

And I was never a big Luke guy. Han and R2 were always my boys. That's part of what makes seeing Luke shifted from where we last saw him as much as he was in this a non-issue for me. I totally get how Luke fans and even some of the more general Star Wars fans would be unhappy with it though.
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Lucas himself has been quoted, even in the bonus discs, that the story was supposed to be told from the perspective of C3PO and R2. Even the original (edit: prequel) trilogy holds to this. And they even tried, last minute, to have BB8 be that portrayal, but he ends up being a slap stick badass... Let's be honest, even the people in the movie were fully what the fucking when he commandeered an AT-ST. Even after he wiped the floor with a room of troopers. "You did that?"

"Sorry, I can only do so much to save this travesty of a film," is what I felt him saying.
 
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Royal

Royal

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Daezuel said:
Direct results of having a child and completely fucking it up are the death and destruction of everything he's ever fought for. How satisfying!
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lol

I guess I'm at the point where I find "And they all lived happily ever after" a cliche. That doesn't mean I want miserably ever after either though.

Han didn't seem miserable in TFA to me though. I never imagined him to be great family man material so I didn't find him not being that a disappointment. He still had all his old pluck where everything else was concerned. There being "no one left in the galaxy" for him to con anymore meant he had run a lot of successful cons in the years since we'd last seen him. I was happier knowing he'd been up to that rather than bored to tears trying to be a respectable general in some form of military. And that moment on the Falcon where he told Finn and Rey how he had come around to believing that the force was real was one of my favorite Han scenes of all time.

The parts I wish were handled better does concern his failed relationship with his son. I wish it was fleshed out enough to make it even slightly relatable. And his death scene. It was so heavily telegraphed it undercut the emotional impact it was supposed to have. And then Abrams trying to turn Ben's name into some kind of reveal. The scenes with him and Leia talking about "our son" and avoiding using his name as if he were Voldemort were awkward at best.

And the bowcaster stuff is a minor quibble. That being the first time he's used it all these years wasn't believable.
 
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Muligan

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Daezuel said:
Han Solo, the coolest rogue in the galaxy, becomes a single father loser that gets killed by his shit head son. Direct results of having a child and completely fucking it up are the death and destruction of everything he's ever fought for. How satisfying!
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Ford stated in a few interviews and talk shows that he wanted Lucas to kill Solo and it was speculated (and maybe even proven) that Ford essentially made that an unwritten rule in his contract that Solo would die in the film before he would be involved. To my understanding, Solo's death was influenced by Ford as that how he felt the character's arc should have been handed in the first place. So, I'm not sure it was 100% Abrams or Disney's fault for the Solo death as much as it was the only way to get Ford fully committed.
 
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Royal

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a c i d.f l y said:
Lucas himself has been quoted, even in the bonus discs, that the story was supposed to be told from the perspective of C3PO and R2.
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Yeah I mentioned that earlier. I remember reading that in the issue of Time Magazine that came out right as ESB was released. He had nine films planned, a trilogy of trilogies, and that by the end of it the only characters left would be R2 and 3PO and the story would in effect be told through their eyes. Though I think it was Kershner who was saying that all of the main characters would be gone by the end now that I think about it.
 
Daezuel

Daezuel

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So many things to facepalm about this film. I'm sorry, but I could overlook quite a bit of bullshit but put all of it together and I just can't.

Instead I invite you to watch a real classic. Flesh For Fantasy on a Commodore 64.


Also, I feel like if Han Solo was sacrificing himself it would have led to an immediate great conclusion. Like by this point it's already a forgotten thing how he died and why. Kylo Ren is still the same asshole as always. Meaningless deaths for 1000 Alex.
 
Gaige

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I just saw it for the 3rd time. Definitely right behind Empire for me.

Funny too that it's getting such divisive reviews, just like Empire did back then.
 
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The Edge

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Daezuel said:
Killing off Han and Luke like chumps. Fuck you Kathleen, fuck you Disney, and fuck you for selling out George.
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Don't blame George. That guy has faced so much ridicule over his creation, that it turned him off from creating 7-9. Can't blame him. He did exactly what all the Red Letter Media fanboys wanted. He turned it over to someone else. Now we're seeing the consequences of what being assholes gets you.

I went to TFA and TLJ with my best friend, who's not a Star Wars fan (or Sci-Fi for that matter), but he's a movie buff and enjoys the spectacle of everything. He saw the OT back when they first came out, but not since, and never saw the prequels. He was over this past weekend when TNT was running a Star Wars marathon, and he caught Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope. This was just 2 days after seeing TLJ, so it was fresh in our minds. His comment during RotS was "this seems to be made with more care and deliberate pacing." He repeated the same comment in ANH. He then made the connection, "oh, but these were made by George Lucas, right?" Even a non-fan was able to see what effect the series' creator has.

Although many of you will shit on this, George Lucas is the Tolkien of our time, and John Williams is the Mozart. Believe it or not, up until the early 2000s, John Williams was scoffed at by the classical community, who saw him as a rip-off artist that didn't create "serious music." It's only been over the past decade that it seems everyone is finally jumping on the "John Williams is amazeballs" train. Sadly, I don't think the same will happen to Lucas until he's gone, which is what often happens to the greats. Mocked while they're alive. Worshiped when they're dead. Just remember, whatever your opinions are of his work, without Lucas, we wouldn't even have Star Wars to argue about.
 
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Blitz

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It's hilarious seeing the people trying to defend this movie with, "Get over it fan boys, you were wrong. It's a good movie, get over yourselves" on social media. And most of them are ultra-ugly or don't actually have real profile pictures of themselves. That's who liked this movie, kids and virgins.


Fuck, Riann Johnson.
 
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Caliane

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The Edge said:
Don't blame George. That guy has faced so much ridicule over his creation, that it turned him off from creating 7-9. Can't blame him. He did exactly what all the Red Letter Media fanboys wanted. He turned it over to someone else. Now we're seeing the consequences of what being assholes gets you.

I went to TFA and TLJ with my best friend, who's not a Star Wars fan (or Sci-Fi for that matter), but he's a movie buff and enjoys the spectacle of everything. He saw the OT back when they first came out, but not since, and never saw the prequels. He was over this past weekend when TNT was running a Star Wars marathon, and he caught Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope. This was just 2 days after seeing TLJ, so it was fresh in our minds. His comment during RotS was "this seems to be made with more care and deliberate pacing." He repeated the same comment in ANH. He then made the connection, "oh, but these were made by George Lucas, right?" Even a non-fan was able to see what effect the series' creator has.

Although many of you will shit on this, George Lucas is the Tolkien of our time, and John Williams is the Mozart. Believe it or not, up until the early 2000s, John Williams was scoffed at by the classical community, who saw him as a rip-off artist that didn't create "serious music." It's only been over the past decade that it seems everyone is finally jumping on the "John Williams is amazeballs" train. Sadly, I don't think the same will happen to Lucas until he's gone, which is what often happens to the greats. Mocked while they're alive. Worshiped when they're dead. Just remember, whatever your opinions are of his work, without Lucas, we wouldn't even have Star Wars to argue about.
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"deliberate care and pacing"
you can thank the editors for that.

 
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Royal

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Caliane said:
"deliberate care and pacing"
you can thank the editors for that.
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Great video. Glad to see the credit it gave his ex-wife. Many people have said for a while now you can see her absence in everything he's done since their divorce in the 80's. The entire OT is as good as it is because they were such collaborations of talented individuals. Lucas becoming more and more of an overriding creative presence in his own works over the years is what eroded their quality on the storytelling side of the equation. And it's probably helped thin out the ranks of those that were willing to work with him as well (with everyone he asked to direct the prequels turning him down as the culmination of that).

It's no surprise he has a fondness for editing. If you listen to Francis Ford Coppola recount their days together at Warner Brothers early in Lucas's career you see where the seeds of that were sown. Lucas compared having his movies re-edited by the studio to having the fingers cut off of his children. But in spite of him feeling that editing is his ace in the hole he's not so good at it. He's consistently diminished the effectiveness of his past movies with his revisions and re-edits. It's as if he himself doesn't understand the fundamentals of pacing thru scenes illustrated in that video.
 
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pharmakos

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Daezuel said:
Man it's strange reading a respected poster with a Gene Hackman avatar saying they like something that assassinated Luke's character while agreeing they didn't leave enough questions to be answered in 9.
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it's almost as if its okay for people we like to have opinions we don't!
 
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Caliane

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Royal said:
Great video. Glad to see the credit it gave his ex-wife. Many people have said for a while now you can see her absence in everything he's done since their divorce in the 80's. The entire OT is as good as it is because they were such collaborations of talented individuals. Lucas becoming more and more of an overriding creative presence in his own works over the years is what eroded their quality on the storytelling side of the equation. And it's probably helped thin out the ranks of those that were willing to work with him as well (with everyone he asked to direct the prequels turning him down as the culmination of that).

It's no surprise he has a fondness for editing. If you listen to Francis Ford Coppola recount their days together at Warner Brothers early in Lucas's career you see where the seeds of that were sown. Lucas compared having his movies re-edited by the studio to having the fingers cut off of his children. But in spite of him feeling that editing is his ace in the hole he's not so good at it. He's consistently diminished the effectiveness of his past movies with his revisions and re-edits. It's as if he himself doesn't understand the fundamentals of pacing thru scenes illustrated in that video.
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yeah. I wonder if its just he can't edit his own stuff? cant kill his darlings, as it were..

Also, What is going on in hollywood at large, that has caused this recent deluge of catastrophic editing? DC movies, starwars most notably.
 
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OU Ariakas

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I was a Star Wars fan for my entire life. The first movie I can remember watching with my dad was RoTJ. I read the vast majority of the books and loved the expanded universe even with its faults because it expanded the Star Wars universe. I was hopeful after watching the Force Awakens because it was a good reset with mildly interesting characters and mysteries that could expand this new universe.

Last Jedi ruined all of that.

It was a decent standalone movie but it went out of its way to close off the rest of the Star Wars universe. It had a constant message of hope but the only scene that filled anyone with hope was Luke's last stand and even that fell flat when it just became a one on one battle with Kylo that further closed the universe by sacrificing one of the greatest beacons of hope in Star Wars so that 20 rebels could escape. The best scenes were the Kylo and Rey conversations and their battle in the throne room was the only scene that I would say made me really excited; I was truly disappointed they didn't join forces to do something unexpected. I may be the only person that liked the Yoda scene but his message was a good one and should have been given to Luke by the force ghost after one year of exile instead of 10 or however long he was gone. There were definitely more bad moments than good in this one and it seems like their only path for movie 9 is a straight good vs evil where Kylo and Rey fight and Rey kills him.
 
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Royal

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Caliane said:
yeah. I wonder if its just he can't edit his own stuff? cant kill his darlings, as it were..
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I can't count the number of times I've seen him describe himself as being very visually oriented. I think he overweights visuals in the process as a result. He has a very diminished sense of everything else that's going on that makes a particular scene or sequence of scenes work. For him it's just a logical progression thru imagery.

The special edition of ESB is a great example. In the scene after Luke gets away from Vader and is hanging outside of Bespin, he didn't like how Vader called for his shuttle to be prepared and then just showed up on his star destroyer a little while later. He felt the audience needed to see him in transit. So he went back and intercut shots of Vader flying in his shuttle all throughout that sequence, watering down the dramatic build up of the scene as a whole. Just to show the audience something they could easily put together without seeing it laid out in front of them. But for him it just didn't make as much sense without Vader's flight time.
 
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