Step Son Joining Air Force, Advice?

Brikker

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That type of thing can be something that makes it all feel a bit more "real", but still isn't a huge thing imo. Going through SERE training where the instructors beat you to prepare you for possible hostage situations is a bit more interesting :p That was overall a fun and extremely educational course, though.
 

Eomer

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What the fuck? Fuck him. Fucking pussy should of never of joined. Bet he loves that "disability" pay.
You're a real asshole, you know that? You don't know a fucking thing about the guy and what he may or may not have experienced. Combat isn't the only potential cause of PTSD.
 

Eidal

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You're a real asshole, you know that? You don't know a fucking thing about the guy and what he may or may not have experienced. Combat isn't the only potential cause of PTSD.
Without knowing the details of his deployment, he was very likely safer wherever he was than he would have been in the US and commuting to work on our freeways. Why would I respect a man whose fictional fear left him broken?

Look -- you, and all the other "oh what a poor lad" folks are never going to agree. But when I hear about this non-combat PTSD I roll my eyes. Gangrape? Fine. Brutally tortured? Fine. Kept himself up late at night wondering if a mortar would land in his tent. Fucking pussy. These idiots tend to get all hush-hush about their deployment and let civilians fill in the blanks, they don't come right out and say ("Yea I got super scared in Iraq. I never left the wire on an enormous base; it was technically safer than my usual shenanigans in south California. But, weirdly enough, I got so damn afraid I fucked my brain up!") So yea, fine, if they convinced a doc they're broken then what the fuck ever, lets pay them in perpetuity. But the reason some vets, myself included, get fucking righteous about this is that we, and the other 99 percent who agreed to do a job and did that job, aren't getting paid in perpetuity for being afraid onourcombat tour, even though we were. And if we had felt like it, we probably could have convinced a doctor that we wereso afraid so oftenthat we rate a PTSD diagnosis. But we didn't, because that's a fucking pussy move.
 

Vinen

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No, he's actually doing quite well now. Just because he wasn't infantry doesn't mean he wasn't exposed to the danger/thought of IEDs, or see things that he wish he hadn't. Not believing in the war in the first place seems like it'd be very stressful as you're in the middle of a fucking desert not knowing who, what, and why you're helping. I'm sure there were a lot of insurgents who weren't radical Islamists. People tend to have a problem with people occupying their homes, land, and country.

I'm sure if a bunch of Iraqi soldiers were trampling all over your property, interrogating your family, and fucking with you - it might piss you off. Not to mention having to live with a possibility of a bomb going off in your neighborhood at any time.

Most of the blame goes to religion. As long as that institution exists, there's going to be needless violence and hate.
Based on this logic I should get PTSD for traveling to Paris or New York City.
 

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
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You're a real asshole, you know that? You don't know a fucking thing about the guy and what he may or may not have experienced. Combat isn't the only potential cause of PTSD.
To preface this I was in for 6 years and deployed to Iraq for 2.5 years with the Army. I've been around a lot of vets for quite some time. Most of them suck and are openly trying to get disability for bullshit. Just go onto r/veterans and take a look. This is a microcosm but half of those fucking posts are about how to increase disability pay.

This is unpopular but its an open secret in the US/VA that most vets are just gaming the system for money. The VAST, VAST majority of personnel hang around on huge bases doing whatever and never leave the relative security of these locations. Going to Cinnabon, Burger King, and Green Beans on the regular (not joking) or enjoying the insanely nice chow halls that put Vegas to shame. Along with all the other rec facilities around and even the PX (Walmart).

So seriously Eomer, fuck that guy and his bullshit PTSD. PTSD is the easiest thing to fake because all you have to do is just continuously say shit like, you have flashbacks, can't sleep, angry all the time, suicidal, etc and you're talking about a goal of $3k+ a month for the rest of your life and innumerable benefits from basically every state. They've removed the requirement of having been in combat and just that you "feel threatened" to have it. Never pay tolls again, never register your vehicle again, free tuition at state schools for you and your children down to your grandchildren. Free national park passes. Disabled parking.

There is absolutely every reason to game the system as it has been quite easy to do compared to previous decades. And unlike Social Security disability you can work full time while receiving all of this.

An exceptionally savy douche of a person entering the service these days could go in with the direct intention of "becoming disabled" by the end of his service. Building up lots of medical documentation on something that you can't prove or disprove easily. In four years you have the equivalent of a million dollar 401k that can never be taken away.

EDIT: Oh and the guy in question from Wooly's post. 100% guaranteed he was on a 12 on 12 off shift of some kind in the motor pool. Mostly replacing panels, changing oil, fixing trucks to some degree. Mechanics generally never get sent to FOB/COP outposts because they need the tool/part infrastructure to accomplish anything. So he was on the largest most secure bases with the most warehouses and mechanic shops.

The most he encountered was the Big Voice saying "mortar warning" that it does. Bet he rushed to the nearest shelter everytime he heard that shit.
 

Breakdown

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I got the same pitch when I was 18. I was super gung ho after 9/11 and went to the Navy Recruiter. Loved the idea of going port to port and sailing the seas. Scored high on the asvab. SIGN UP FOR NUKE THEY TELL ME.

Had to submit a waiver through the MEPS Director - I passed the Nuke Math and Science test but had failed Calculus in High School....Since I had skipped like 80 classes. I was a lazy fuck and slacked hard my senior year. Would show up 3-4 periods into the day if at all. WOuld sleep all day and play EQ at night. No idea how I didnt get in more trouble. Had decent grades otherwise.

SO of course I submit the waiver and fall for "Picking a backup" - ended up going into the AETC where you come out an Electronics Tech (Radar, COmms) or FireControlman (Weapons SYstems). Of course my waiver wasnt approved, I doubt it ever was looked at. Worked out great though. I know how I was at the time and I would have washed out of the Nuke program. Spent 17 months in Boot Camp, Basic Electronics and Electricity School, A School and C School. Chose ET over FC because I wanted to get SATCOM orders. When I finished A school and became an ET the orders available were shit, ended up picking a C school that just had been merged into the ET rate when they overhauled their tech and IT type classes. Went to C school and ended up with 4 and a half years on an LHD out of norfolk. I ended up in the IT division because my specialty was Tactical Systems running on Unix. Ended up being way better than all the idiots in my division at Networking, Helpdesk, Sys Admin, you name it. Fell in love with IT and went into it hard.

got out at 6 years and had no trouble finding Network Engineering jobs. Been doing that for 8 years now making good money. It was just the kick in the ass I needed. I always was a bad student, Couldnt care or pay attention. But give me minimum pay but the chance to excel in the work place and I was able to kick ass. I was very lucky to chance into a cross rate position where I could work on different things. But I think no matter what I would have found a niche in what I was doing to focus on.

I really dont think the actual job he ends up with is as important as finding his drive and motivation and what he excels at. So many military end up in different careers afterwards. Right now on my team at work we have an Ex Corpsman that got into IT and a Navy Crypto Tech. We all found what we were good at through the time we spent in the navy. And were able to cultivate Alpha personalities and excel in the work place.

Long story short, if he wants to join the Navy, he should. Worst case he spends a few years eating shit and comes out with job skills. Depending on his duty station he could have his hands in many different pots to find his true passion. And when he gets out he can finish a degree on the GI bill. Just dont let him fall in as a Deck Seaman.

It sounds honestly like your kid is a bit like me. The true payoff wont be his signing bonus, or how much he advances etc, it will be focusing a rudderless ship and finding success.

God I sound gay.
 

Eidal

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It sounds honestly like your kid is a bit like me. The true payoff wont be his signing bonus, or how much he advances etc, it will be focusing a rudderless ship and finding success.
God I sound gay.
Yup. Although, that does sound like something a super motivated sailor would say...
 

Eidal

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The VAST, VAST majority of personnel hang around on huge bases doing whatever and never leave the relative security of these locations. Going to Cinnabon, Burger King, and Green Beans on the regular (not joking) or enjoying the insanely nice chow halls that put Vegas to shame. Along with all the other rec facilities around and even the PX (Walmart).
Civilians have no fucking idea how comfortable the big bases are in a combat zone. It's insanity. The DFACs (cafeterias) on Leatherneck absolutely put Vegas to shame. Want a fucking BLT on a toasted ciabatta at 1 am? Sure, 3 different DFACs are open for the night shift! Want surf and turf? Every friday!

Whenever I saw the "its tough but I'm hanging in there" facebook status updates from Marines at Leatherneck or KAF it made me viscerraly angry. When I left AFG, I had about a year and a half left on my contract and I would have finished it out at Leatherneck without a shred of hesitation. Easy 12 on 12 off shifts for combat pay and not being able to piss my money away in Socal? Fucking hell yea...
 

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Over my time in Iraq, I spent time at a place called Camp Cropper for awhile. Wandered around various locations in the South of Baghdad living in commandeered houses and shit. Lived in Adhamiyah Palace (Camp Apache), the old Iraqi Intelligence Service building on the river (Camp War Eagle), occasionally visited the Green Zone for certain things. Tons of police stations in Adhamiyah area. And visited HQ at Camp Taji from time to time.

Taji and the Green Zone were the only places outside of Kuwait I ever experienced the huge base life. And god damn. Sure Iraq/Afghanistan suck. But Green Zone, Taji, Leatherneck, Kuwait don't suck THAT much at all.
 

Big Phoenix

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You're a real asshole, you know that? You don't know a fucking thing about the guy and what he may or may not have experienced. Combat isn't the only potential cause of PTSD.
You realize there's a paycheck attached to having "ptsd", right?
 

Woolygimp

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Without knowing the details of his deployment, he was very likely safer wherever he was than he would have been in the US and commuting to work on our freeways. Why would I respect a man whose fictional fear left him broken?

Look -- you, and all the other "oh what a poor lad" folks are never going to agree. But when I hear about this non-combat PTSD I roll my eyes. Gangrape? Fine. Brutally tortured? Fine. Kept himself up late at night wondering if a mortar would land in his tent. Fucking pussy. These idiots tend to get all hush-hush about their deployment and let civilians fill in the blanks, they don't come right out and say ("Yea I got super scared in Iraq. I never left the wire on an enormous base; it was technically safer than my usual shenanigans in south California. But, weirdly enough, I got so damn afraid I fucked my brain up!") So yea, fine, if they convinced a doc they're broken then what the fuck ever, lets pay them in perpetuity. But the reason some vets, myself included, get fucking righteous about this is that we, and the other 99 percent who agreed to do a job and did that job, aren't getting paid in perpetuity for being afraid onourcombat tour, even though we were. And if we had felt like it, we probably could have convinced a doctor that we wereso afraid so oftenthat we rate a PTSD diagnosis. But we didn't, because that's a fucking pussy move.
You're assuming he never left the wire in a convoy. He saw the field hospitals, the wreckages from the Humvees that were vaporized, and the remains of soldiers that were still inside. He wasn't scared as dying, so much as coming home half a man. He also had his enlistment extended with those bullshit laws that broke the government's promise to a lot of the troops in order to maintain the necessary levels for the Surge. He had to spend another two years in the military unwillingly, and then when he returned home received completely inadequate medical care.

There's a movie called Lone Survivor, which shows the seals battling an army of 200+ insurgents and kicking ass before they bite it. In reality, they were attacked by 7-12 insurgents. When faced with death, people are a lot less heroic than we want to believe. They're making a great sacrifice, but even the greatest aren't perfect and are susceptible to our biological responses, which often results in PTSD.

Breivik said the first shots pushed him into a "fight-and-flight" mode that made it easier to continue killing.

Some teenagers were frozen in panic, unable to move even when Breivik ran out of ammunition. He changed clips. They didn't move. He shot them in the head.
While he was going around shooting, people were so terrified that they couldn't move. True fear is so powerful, and you can sit here and speculate how your body will react but you truly don't know. Combat, or even seeing the results of it, are amazingly stressful... especially in our age when death can come anytime, from anywhere. Most people don't even want to kill one another, and they'll "posture" instead of actually fighting. They do this by firing up in the air or pretending to fight, without actually trying to kill the enemy, even when that enemy is likely to kill those soldiers. It's said that a very small percentage 5-10% of soldiers are responsible for 90%+ of deaths involving small arms.

Read The Psychology of Killing as it explains that prior to cartridges, a lot of weapons on the battlefield were reloaded 7-8 times and never fired. Trying to simplify war is fruitless, as each soldier has his own personality, morals, and most importantly brain/hormones.

I read a good article that says that in wars involving melee combat, the lines weren't actually always joined. They'd fight, and separate and intimidate one another, and then occasionally close the gap and fight a little, then separate. Being in melee combat for an extended period of time was both exhausting and stressful. The longbow didn't win Agincourt. It was the fact that the infantry in the back were applying pressure to men in front of them, forcing them forward and to fall over face first, and get trampled by the men behind them. A historian is quoted as saying that more people probably suffocated face first in the mud/trampled, than ever killed by arrows.

Quit acting like a badass. You aren't some heroic warrior, and denigrating another man's service based on your own assumptions is just hypocritical.
 

Woolygimp

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As far as the OP, I'd say the Navy is probably the best choice. If we ever fight against China, he'll probably be in the most danger as it'll be a war fought at sea. Though, that's unlikely in the immediate future and ships have a lot of benefits. You don't directly participate in killing, you get to see a lot of the globe, you become very well accustomed to the your crew-mates, you're fed well, and sailing across the ocean is just an amazing experience. You also learn a lot of technical skills, far more than you would in the infantry. Also a lot less likely to suffer any health detriments, especially PTSD. Any combat would be over-the-horizon.

Now they're letting women serve on ships and that's a major plus.
 

a_skeleton_03

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Here I am unable to get the .mil to take credit for my cancer because I was diagnosed 2 years after getting out. I spent 13 years in and had stage 3 cancer complete throughout my body. Yet it's easy for anyone to claim PTSD because there is no definitive test for it. There isn't a blood test or x-ray.

That being said there are good and bad people using it correctly or abusing it and I no longer care which is which. I don't get frustrated by it any more because I can't fix it. I just ignore those people getting that fat disability check and move on with my life.
 

Hateyou

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My best friend did eight years on a navy sub as a nuke. Got his nuclear engineering degree afterwards. The name makes people think that all they can do is nuclear stuff and that's so far from true. They can go into electrical orPLC/ controls career pretty easily. I know a couple of other nukes through him with very similar stories.

I say if he can go navy nuke to go for it. They teach them some good shit.
 

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Quit acting like a badass. You aren't some heroic warrior, and denigrating another man's service based on your own assumptions is just hypocritical.
Without criticizing any of those exaggerated actions you're talking about earlier in the post.

Here's the acid test:

Does this person openly say he has X% disability rating, almost as if he is happy to have it? Does he make an effort to talk about his "war stories" fairly often?

If so, this person is likely gaming it.
 

Sulrn

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You're a real asshole, you know that? You don't know a fucking thing about the guy and what he may or may not have experienced. Combat isn't the only potential cause of PTSD.
Have you ever heard the coaching that takes place in NCO'S/SGT'S time when someone is getting ready to ETS/retire? Have you ever been through a VA hospital or clinic and seen the bullshit clogging the system? Have you ever sat down with a UA/recruiter/S-1 during a medical file review when they start pointing out "missing" claims?

You're right. Phoenix is an asshole and combat isn't the only way to get PTSD, but the simple truth is the vast majority of processed military PTSD cases involving disability up to about two years are ago were entitlement claims pure and simple. 9/11 and IRQ/AFG brought in a lot of dirt bags that should have never been allowed to dishonor the uniform and the PTSD claims reflect that clearly and wooly-eyes "description and context" send red flags up to anyone that's been around this for real.

Could his "friend" have PTSD? Flip a coin and find out. But getting upset because someone came to a different result is silly, especially when he's using his "friend" to push his agenda.
 

Brikker

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Civilians have no fucking idea how comfortable the big bases are in a combat zone. It's insanity. The DFACs (cafeterias) on Leatherneck absolutely put Vegas to shame. Want a fucking BLT on a toasted ciabatta at 1 am? Sure, 3 different DFACs are open for the night shift! Want surf and turf? Every friday!

Whenever I saw the "its tough but I'm hanging in there" facebook status updates from Marines at Leatherneck or KAF it made me viscerraly angry. When I left AFG, I had about a year and a half left on my contract and I would have finished it out at Leatherneck without a shred of hesitation. Easy 12 on 12 off shifts for combat pay and not being able to piss my money away in Socal? Fucking hell yea...
They need to send that shit down south to the Dark Continent. Food here is mediocre at best and the hours suck
frown.png
 
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Famm

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So he did his physical and psych last week, and signed a "delayed enlistment" or something? He didn't seem really solid on exactly how that even works, but his impression is that he doesn't have to commit to anything unless they can get him in one of the nine positions he listed as his choices. He said he's supposed to hear what they have openings for on his list by the 28th and then he can pick. He also said something about if they can't get him in one of those jobs within a year he can back out and start over, which I don't fully get but he might be confused.

He's seeing his recruiter again today to get better details on the whole thing. He chose sensor operator as well as a bunch of other intel jobs with security clearance as people suggested. I guess he's really still interested in maintenance stuff too though since he put a few of those down after all, but this time he said he chose "crew chief" positions? That seems crazy to me that he could go into supervising people with no current experience or ability to work on aircraft, but I guess they would train the hell out of him? I told him everyone said maintenance sucks but he thinks crew chief might be the better way to go about it.

Anyway, I guess he finds out a bit more today and we are just waiting to hear what jobs they have openings for.
 

Eidal

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I guess he's really still interested in maintenance stuff too though since he put a few of those down after all, but this time he said he chose "crew chief" positions? That seems crazy to me that he could go into supervising people with no current experience or ability to work on aircraft, but I guess they would train the hell out of him? I told him everyone said maintenance sucks but he thinks crew chief might be the better way to go about it.

Anyway, I guess he finds out a bit more today and we are just waiting to hear what jobs they have openings for.
3 seconds of googling...

Is being a crew chief really that terrible? : AirForce

tldr; probably, yes. This jives with my anecdotal evidence of Marines absolutely hating their experience on the flight line. The pilots are the stars on the flight line; all the enlisted men are just peasants that need to be whipped on occasion to keep their morale high enough so that they don't kill themselves and some shit gets repaired. Ugh. Fuck all that -- I'd re-enlist infantry before I went to the wing.
 
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