The Authoritative Final Fantasy & Bravely Default thread

Sean_sl said:

Dude, you're full of shit. Just stop posting about this. You spent HOURS farming a card game and then you refined specific rewards to get specific junctions. No one's buying into your shit.

The game doesn't force it on you or lead you into it. You chose it. You have shitty self control. Suck it up and move on.

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Bullshit. The only thing you have to figure out on your own is that using Draw sucks and playing cards is by far the best use of your time if you are trying to get magic. You don't have to optimize shit. Acquire the refinement abilities of the GFs that you have and then play cards rather than use Draw and that is it. The game falls apart. You don't need a guide or to be minmaxing anything other than the use of your time. When I finally figured out to just play cards the game got way, way better. No more standing around a boss in the game until I had 100, 100, 100 of Double.

Playing FF8 like a normal RPG is akin to smashing your dick in a car door. The game doesn't reward you for doing that. It's not fun playing the game that way and the game doesn't tell you in any of its many tutorials how the thing actually even works. I bought the thing day one after having played every game in the series that had been released in the U.S. multiple times and I quit FF8 in disk three. I walked away from it for 8 years before giving it another try. When I finally picked it up again I started having a much, much better time once I figured out what the fuck I was supposed to be doing.

Arbitrary_sl said:

Bullshit. The only thing you have to figure out on your own is that using Draw sucks and playing cards is by far the best use of your time if you are trying to get magic. You don't have to optimize shit. Acquire the refinement abilities of the GFs that you have and then play cards rather than use Draw and that is it. The game falls apart. You don't need a guide or to be minmaxing anything other than the use of your time. When I finally figured out to just play cards the game got way, way better. No more standing around a boss in the game until I had 100, 100, 100 of Double.

Playing FF8 like a normal RPG is akin to smashing your dick in a car door. The game doesn't reward you for doing that. It's not fun playing the game that way and the game doesn't tell you in any of its many tutorials how the thing actually even works. I bought the thing day one after having played every game in the series that had been released in the U.S. multiple times and I quit FF8 in disk three. I walked away from it for 8 years before giving it another try. When I finally picked it up again I started having a much, much better time once I figured out what the fuck I was supposed to be doing.

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Don't argue with him. Sean thinks I spent hours upon hours of farming a broken card system... Yes I chose to play a game the way it made sense,.. sucks that the way it made sense became OPed.

The game is as hard or as easy as you want to make it. It's notbrokenbecause youchoseto overpower yourself with very specific shit.

The game is not broken because you chose to play it in a way to make yourself ridiculously powerful. RPGs generally have that out. They are not broken or bad games because of it. This is true of just aboutevery RPG ever made. So stop blaming the game and stop shitting up the thread with your responses to the subject.

Arbitrary_sl said:

Bullshit. The only thing you have to figure out on your own is that using Draw sucks and playing cards is by far the best use of your time if you are trying to get magic. You don't have to optimize shit. Acquire the refinement abilities of the GFs that you have and then play cards rather than use Draw and that is it. The game falls apart. You don't need a guide or to be minmaxing anything other than the use of your time. When I finally figured out to just play cards the game got way, way better. No more standing around a boss in the game until I had 100, 100, 100 of Double.

Playing FF8 like a normal RPG is akin to smashing your dick in a car door. The game doesn't reward you for doing that. It's not fun playing the game that way and the game doesn't tell you in any of its many tutorials how the thing actually even works. I bought the thing day one after having played every game in the series that had been released in the U.S. multiple times and I quit FF8 in disk three. I walked away from it for 8 years before giving it another try. When I finally picked it up again I started having a much, much better time once I figured out what the fuck I was supposed to be doing.

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Just...just wrong.

If you want to keep playing Triple Triad, that's fine, and you can certainly refine those cards into some things you would want. The idea that draw sucks and that getting cards is better is just wrong, though.

ALL the cards that could potentially "break" the game come really fucking late and are singletons. You get one, that's it. You refine it, it's gone forever. And sometimes they're powerful enough and the rules have fucked you hard enough that you need some of them to defeat other opponents that have other cards you want. You think you're tough shit for refining a few cards before you were supposed to have that spell? Wow good job.

Let's take a look at your absolutelybullshitDouble example. Grendel is the only card that refines into Dragon Fin, which in turn is the only item that refines into Double. Oh well no biggie right? Just get 3 Grendels. Oh shit wait, wrong. Dragon Fins refine into 20 Doubles a piece. 5 Fins to 1 stack of Double. And it's a great junction till you get Triple, so you'll want 300. That's 15. You're going to get 15 Grendels? And you think getting 15 Grendels takes less fucking time then drawing?

You wanna talk FF8, fine, but don't bullshit everyone. 15 games of Triple Triadminimum.

The other bullshit that's been repeated is "You can just junction high level magiks and trololol it's trivial!" Getting high level magic requires you to by and large BE high level. Yes I've spent some time figuring out how to break the game, as in my Siren example, but to me that added to the game. It gave me the freedom to do things like that. But you can't just fuck around and get Triple. In fact if you're underleveled, bosseswill not have the higher level versions of the spells. You can't just fuck around and expect your GFs to have enough points for their essential junctions, and if you think being underleveled makes the boss fights easier, that's just fucking wrong. Sure, you can challenge diablo as soon as you get the lamp. It's fucking hard though and I wouldn't expect most people to be able to abuse Selphie's Full Heal like I can. The better move is to wait and, get this, do some basic drawing and level yourself and get some good junctions.

Weaponsfree_sl said:

Just...just wrong.

If you want to keep playing Triple Triad, that's fine, and you can certainly refine those cards into some things you would want. The idea that draw sucks and that getting cards is better is just wrong, though.

ALL the cards that could potentially "break" the game come really fucking late and are singletons. You get one, that's it. You refine it, it's gone forever. And sometimes they're powerful enough and the rules have fucked you hard enough that you need some of them to defeat other opponents that have other cards you want. You think you're tough shit for refining a few cards before you were supposed to have that spell? Wow good job.

Let's take a look at your absolutelybullshitDouble example. Grendel is the only card that refines into Dragon Fin, which in turn is the only item that refines into Double. Oh well no biggie right? Just get 3 Grendels. Oh shit wait, wrong. Dragon Fins refine into 20 Doubles a piece. 5 Fins to 1 stack of Double. And it's a great junction till you get Triple, so you'll want 300. That's 15. You're going to get 15 Grendels? And you think getting 15 Grendels takes less fucking time then drawing?

You wanna talk FF8, fine, but don't bullshit everyone. 15 games of Triple Triadminimum.

The other bullshit that's been repeated is "You can just junction high level magiks and trololol it's trivial!" Getting high level magic requires you to by and large BE high level. Yes I've spent some time figuring out how to break the game, as in my Siren example, but to me that added to the game. It gave me the freedom to do things like that. But you can't just fuck around and get Triple. In fact if you're underleveled, bosseswill not have the higher level versions of the spells. You can't just fuck around and expect your GFs to have enough points for their essential junctions, and if you think being underleveled makes the boss fights easier, that's just fucking wrong. Sure, you can challenge diablo as soon as you get the lamp. It's fucking hard though and I wouldn't expect most people to be able to abuse Selphie's Full Heal like I can. The better move is to wait and, get this, do some basic drawing and level yourself and get some good junctions.

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Too tired to argue anything else right now, but Diablos should always be done when you get him. Did you not read the tutorial the game shoves down your throat? Junction blind to Squall (pref. 100 blinds, takes all of 5 minutes at most to draw), blind him via Squall attacks and become basically invincible since the only thing else he can do is gravity (Which cant kill you). If you think Diablos is even remotely hard at the start of the game, you really need to stop playing JRPGS... since the game will basically explain to you how to kill him..

Crell_sl said:

Too tired to argue anything else right now, but Diablos should always be done when you get him. Did you not read the tutorial the game shoves down your throat? Junction blind to Squall (pref. 100 blinds, takes all of 5 minutes at most to draw), blind him via Squall attacks and become basically invincible since the only thing else he can do is gravity (Which cant kill you). If you think Diablos is even remotely hard at the start of the game, you really need to stop playing JRPGS... since the game will basically explain to you how to kill him..

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The average mouthbreather that thinks TT getting 15 Grendels is easier than drawing double won't know to junction blind. He's very difficult without that. Gravity and then a single swing kills a character. He's much easier when your limit breaks do respectable damage (which can be easily shot off because of Low HP after gravity). Let's also not forget the average mouthbreather that some people are won't even fucking draw 100 blinds because it's "boring" and try to get them through the card game.

Weaponsfree_sl said:

The average mouthbreather that thinks TT getting 15 Grendels is easier than drawing double won't know to junction blind. He's very difficult without that. Gravity and then a single swing kills a character. He's much easier when your limit breaks do respectable damage (which can be easily shot off because of Low HP after gravity). Let's also not forget the average mouthbreather that some people are won't even fucking draw 100 blinds because it's "boring" and try to get them through the card game.

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I guess? Except the game tells you to junction blind before running through the training ground to blind the T-Rex thing so you can God mode it. If people are too dumb to read, then yes sure. Anytime I ever play FF8, I use the same thing the game told me to do against the T-Rex thing against Diablos and just sit there and draw Demi from him. He can't kill me, it's trivial. Just takes forever. There is absolutely zero reason to NOT get him right when you get the lamp. His abilities are far to good to pass up not learning early on.

Crell_sl said:

I guess? Except the game tells you to junction blind before running through the training ground to blind the T-Rex thing so you can God mode it. If people are too dumb to read, then yes sure. Anytime I ever play FF8, I use the same thing the game told me to do against the T-Rex thing against Diablos and just sit there and draw Demi from him. He can't kill me, it's trivial. Just takes forever. There is absolutely zero reason to NOT get him right when you get the lamp. His abilities are far to good to pass up not learning early on.

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Arbitrary's initial dumbass argument is that Drawing is stupid and the card game is better. Then he said he didn't have to get 100 100 100 double through drawing. I'm saying that's bullshit, and I'm also saying being underleveled doesn't make some things easier.

I'm going to just assume that you are right about Double because FF8 hasn't been in my PS1 in three years and I'm not about to head over to gamefaqs for this thread but it doesn't actually matter because it doesn't change the fact that Draw sucks and the better way to get magic is to play cards. Just play cards.

And wait, beating Diablo the second you get the lamp is hard? In what universe? You cast Blind on him and you win. His Gravity attacks cannot kill you and his physical attack misses. Use his own Gravity magic against him and mash the attack button. Done. And to think I was taking you seriously for a second.

Any serious person who plays FF8 stops drawing magic around the same time you take the train to the next continent and get the whole "Laguna" dream thing. Sure a few things you will draw, but cards are the easiest way to go. Esp. since you can, without any real effort, build a deck so early on that will kill anyone else all throughout the game.

And I can't take anyone in this thread seriously that plays modern Final Fantasies for "the difficulty." Oh noes I became OP! Maybe this isn't the genre for you. Every fucking FF game I play, I break. And to me that's part of the fun. You incidentally became OP and you're buttmad? In a JRPG? They're not difficult.

What blows my mind is by your own admission the game mechanics made a bossfight easy. Then you complain about becoming OP. Was it OP of you to cast blind? OH GOD THE MECHANICS ARE LETTING ME MAKE THINGS EASIER

Final Fantasy isn't a difficult genre, perhaps excepting the very early ones. You die a lot in 7? 9? X? X-2? Cause I sure as shit didn't, and I broke all of those but 9 since I couldn't stand it. I enjoyed the ride of the rest.

Weaponsfree_sl said:

And I can't take anyone in this thread seriously that plays modern Final Fantasies for "the difficulty." Oh noes I became OP! Maybe this isn't the genre for you. Every fucking FF game I play, I break. And to me that's part of the fun. You incidentally became OP and you're buttmad? In a JRPG? They're not difficult.

What blows my mind is by your own admission the game mechanics made a bossfight easy. Then you complain about becoming OP. Was it OP of you to cast blind? OH GOD THE MECHANICS ARE LETTING ME MAKE THINGS EASIER

Final Fantasy isn't a difficult genre, perhaps excepting the very early ones. You die a lot in 7? 9? X? X-2? Cause I sure as shit didn't, and I broke all of those but 9 since I couldn't stand it. I enjoyed the ride of the rest.

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What's your point? I never once said that Final Fantasy at all is hard. I simply showed the ease it is to break FF8 compared to the others, due to a completely broken system. No one is complaining about being OP in a boss fight... We are bitching about a terrible system.

No,youare bitching about a terrible system. FF8 is not a broken game because of the card game rewards. Shit, they make the damned game TOLERABLE because the whole draw system is so utterly horrid.

You're bitching becauseyouthinkyour own actionsmade a fucking easy JRPG too easy. It's pretty much the most absurd bitching I've ever heard about RPGs. Knock it off.

It is a legitimate complaint of the game that it allows a player to smash it over their knee before they've even seen another town without doing anything special. Unlock a couple GF abilities, play some cards, and refine some items and that's it. Even worse once you start to figure out the game's obfuscated mechanics you realize that playing cards is by far the least painful and least grindy way to play the game. FF8 is at it'sbestwhen you spend some time and the beginning of the game setting yourself up. If you are trying to play it like you would have played the previous games in the series than welcome to a miserable experience filled with awful grinding.

Well, I for one, find the FF8 game balance discussion pretty interesting.

FF8 has terrible mob scaling, with certain drops and only happening at specific levels combined with mobs gaining random abilities at certain levels. Combine with needing specific drops for weapons and you end up with a fairly obfuscated progression path with easy to miss tiers of gear thanks to the system. Oblivion with asian graphics =\

re: the Ancient...

We're gonna have to agree to disagree. You are (imo) attaching far more importance to Rydia's return than I felt when I ran through it, while I feel that you aren't attaching enough importance (again, imo) to Dagger's scenes with Brahne/post Brahne death. It isn't a binary answer where one of us has to be wrong. I just personally feel that the writing has never improved or declined. The medium has progressed faster than the skill of the writers and we end up with the clusterfuck that was FF13's story. But for all its faults, FF13 had a really good combat system, in my opinion, that simply removed needing to hunt through menus to use abilities we would use anyway. Had it gone the Pulse style open world angle at like... hour 2, I think a lot of hate directed at the game would go the way of the dodo. As it is, there's like a 10-12 hour tutorial before you get to that point and it really does detract from an otherwise pretty engaging combat rpg.

Hopefully SE learned from the mistakes of the past and at least put more of the game into the next game. I don't hold a lot of faith in them being able to write a story that takes advantage of the current tech, but I do feel they are competent when it comes to the "game" portion of the games.

re: breaking FF9...

It's pretty difficult to break FF9 in that story progression pretty much determines ability availability which determines how OP you are for certain content. You can basically outlevel content by grinding a ton and that's it. When you get to the -very- end of the game, yeah, there are some neat tricks you can pull that basically outplay the computer in most aspects, but it is effectively impossible to make yourself too OP for the game without serious conscious effort and a fuckload of grinding prior to that. It's up there with FF1 in the area of being "broke" proof.

As a kid playing FF1 I found what would later be called the Peninsula of Power while exploring and have always used it since to out level that awful marsh cave. That's about all you can do.

I like it.