The Back to School Thread

Noodleface · Feb 21, 2014

Big data is really the "in" thing now, but I've found most people really don't know what it is - so don't feel alone. Even people at my company, a big data company, have no idea what it is. I'm still about 50/50 on the topic myself.

chaos · Feb 21, 2014

Crone_sl said:
How is it that you guys picked what you want to do?

.

I joined the Navy and decided to do something with computers because hey, I liked EQ and Diablo 2 so why not? The recruiter told me I could be a hacker so I was fucking sold. Turns out it isn't quite that easy, but w/e, I did a ton of IT stuff and got skills and experience all over the map. I came out of the Navy a networking guy, Cisco and Juniper and Marconi routers/switches with some desktop VTC stuff thrown in, that was what I wanted to do. But then I found out that because I didn't have 30 years experience people really want me to have certs, so I go get them. Them I get a much higher paying job in security/ITIL shit/ service desk shit and now I have to learn about a lot of new stuff, including customer service and briefing and shit like that. Now I'm locked in on security. I just like it, I like researching stuff and I like remediating vulnerabilities and stuff like that. It is similar to when I did tech control in the Navy, I really liked the problem solving aspect of troubleshooting and creating circuits.

The whole "big data" thing is great and all, but I am not a guy who wants to do that as a career. The only reason I was even considering it is to supplement my credentials in security. It seems to me that is something you need to really be into.

Crone · Feb 21, 2014

I wish I had the same ability to just tell my company I want to work with computers, and let them throw me into shit, and see what sticks. lol

There are some Big Data masters programs that are popping up across the country, and they are online, so it's getting more and more popular. I'll look into Econometric's to see if maybe there is a class locally I can take to get my feet wet to see if I even like it?

I forgot to even mention my latest path was going to be Supply Chain Management and Logistics. I thought it'd be kind of cool to get some business background in that, and I'm all about figuring out the most efficient way to ship shit around the world? Another field I don't know much of, but seems to be in pretty high demand.

This shit is hard man.

But nothing worth while is ever easy, right? I just refuse to believe that I'm stuck in the customer service industry. Have thought at times I am, because nothing else looked good, and I do enjoy making people happy...

chaos · Feb 21, 2014

Well, just realize that as you grow in any industry you will realize that customer service plays a large role. So your time in customer service is NOT wasted. You are learning skills that will put you above a lot of people.

I know a guy, smartest fucking IT guy I have ever met, but he can't talk to people. His career is effectively limited by that fact and I don't think he really understands that now, or if he does it doesn't bother him. More and more I am finding that the things I didn't put much stock in, like customer service or organizational skills, are really really useful and in high demand.

Crone · Feb 21, 2014

I've heard this about a lot of industries, that there is a pretty big divide between people with IT skills, or basically any computers skills at all, and those that can hold a conversation with a random person that calls or comes in or are giving a presentation too.

Friend works as a service writer for a body shop, and they are having a hard time finding qualified people to hire. Either they know tons about computers, and have no issues with that, but start drooling when it comes to actually talking to someone, or they get these old codgers that can sell ice to Eskimos, but be damned if they even know how to turn on a computer.

The merging of business, and IT skills into one I had heard Big Data was kind of part of. You have to have the business sense to make sense of the data you are working with, but also have the IT sense to even know how to get the data.

McCheese · Feb 21, 2014

Crone_sl said:
I wish I had the same ability to just tell my company I want to work with computers, and let them throw me into shit, and see what sticks. lol

There are some Big Data masters programs that are popping up across the country, and they are online, so it's getting more and more popular. I'll look into Econometric's to see if maybe there is a class locally I can take to get my feet wet to see if I even like it?

I forgot to even mention my latest path was going to be Supply Chain Management and Logistics. I thought it'd be kind of cool to get some business background in that, and I'm all about figuring out the most efficient way to ship shit around the world? Another field I don't know much of, but seems to be in pretty high demand.

This shit is hard man.

But nothing worth while is ever easy, right? I just refuse to believe that I'm stuck in the customer service industry. Have thought at times I am, because nothing else looked good, and I do enjoy making people happy...

Do whatever the hell you are passionate about, man. Don't worry if it's "getting more and more popular" or if it's "in pretty high demand." Obviously, ignore this advice if you have a family that you need to support with a specific salary. Of course, in that case I'd tell you to pick SOMETHING and stick with it so you can start advancing up the ladder and provide a higher salary and better future for your family.

It sounds like you're just bouncing around looking for that perfect storm of job availability + money + enjoyment. Good luck with that. If you have the time and ability to experiment and dabble in different things (and from your posts it seems that you do) then find something that you will wake up in the morning and look forward to doing all day. Something that you'll spend nights and weekends doing without pay simply because you enjoy it.

I wasted 6 years thinking I wanted to work with computers because the field had good job prospects, I built home computers, and I played EQ. But it wasn't a passion, and I consider the moment I dropped computers and went with what I wanted--despite the objections of everyone I knew about not being able to find a job, being useless, etc.--to be the best decision I've made in my life.

Falstaff · Feb 21, 2014

chaos_sl said:
Well, just realize that as you grow in any industry you will realize that customer service plays a large role. So your time in customer service is NOT wasted. You are learning skills that will put you above a lot of people.

I know a guy, smartest fucking IT guy I have ever met, but he can't talk to people. His career is effectively limited by that fact and I don't think he really understands that now, or if he does it doesn't bother him. More and more I am finding that the things I didn't put much stock in, like customer service or organizational skills, are really really useful and in high demand.

I wish this was true but it isn't that simple. You still have to deal with degree requirements and bullshit like 10+ years of experience to even get an interview.

Although if you're speaking of advancing higher up the ladder in a company, then I'd agree with you.

Crone · Feb 21, 2014

McCheese_sl said:
Do whatever the hell you are passionate about, man. Don't worry if it's "getting more and more popular" or if it's "in pretty high demand." Obviously, ignore this advice if you have a family that you need to support with a specific salary. Of course, in that case I'd tell you to pick SOMETHING and stick with it so you can start advancing up the ladder and provide a higher salary and better future for your family.

It sounds like you're just bouncing around looking for that perfect storm of job availability + money + enjoyment. Good luck with that. If you have the time and ability to experiment and dabble in different things (and from your posts it seems that you do) then find something that you will wake up in the morning and look forward to doing all day. Something that you'll spend nights and weekends doing without pay simply because you enjoy it.

I wasted 6 years thinking I wanted to work with computers because the field had good job prospects, I built home computers, and I played EQ. But it wasn't a passion, and I consider the moment I dropped computers and went with what I wanted--despite the objections of everyone I knew about not being able to find a job, being useless, etc.--to be the best decision I've made in my life.

I work full time currently in the financial services industry. Customer service for brokers/shareholders. I have time at night to take a class, if I need too. One day a week, or a couple times a week at night to take a class isn't going to hurt anything.

I'm in a very similar boat as you were. I enjoy building computers, and I play games on them. haha. So clearly that means I should be into the computer industry, right? lol

I've had that focus for so long though, I literally have no idea what else to even do. All of my hobbies revolve around video games, and computers, so it's not like I could say hey, I really enjoy this other thing, so maybe there is a career in that.

Soriak_sl · Feb 21, 2014

TJT_sl said:
At the core, Big Data is Econometrics. If you think you'd like it. Start there.

Huh? Econometrics is primarily linear regression models, whereas Machine Learning (at least how I'm learning it) is all about Bayesian statistics. I really don't see how those two fields are comparable... I guess they both deal with stats, but in very different ways.

Why not just take a free online machine learning course and see if you like it?

Sign up for this class:CaltechX: CS1156x: Learning From Data | edX

The class has already finished, but you still have access to all the videos.

As a co-requisite, head over to this class (just started) on probability theory:MITx: 6.041x: Introduction to Probability - The Science of Uncertainty | edX

Given the availability of free online courses, why not just sample a few fields to see what you find interesting? Way cheaper than getting started on a Masters and you'll at least get a sense of the field. When you decide to go for something, courses will be just a little easier since you won't be hearing everything for the first time.

Crone · Feb 21, 2014

Ya, great idea. Absolutely a lot of resources online that are free, and should be able to narrow some stuff down. I have a feeling that the idea of Big Data sounds interesting. That of combining technology and business together, but in practice may not be something I enjoy. Similar to the I play computer games, and like building computers, therefore I'll like the computer field. Doesn't really work that way.

Only way to find out is to try!

chaos · Feb 21, 2014

Eyashusa_sl said:
I wish this was true but it isn't that simple. You still have to deal with degree requirements and bullshit like 10+ years of experience to even get an interview.

Although if you're speaking of advancing higher up the ladder in a company, then I'd agree with you.

Well I don't mean that it will replace traditional experience or education. But once you get that experience or education, it makes you not only a stronger candidate but just all around better at your job. Which, hopefully, translates into moving up the ladder.

wormie · Feb 22, 2014

Soriak_sl said:
Huh? Econometrics is primarily linear regression models, whereas Machine Learning (at least how I'm learning it) is all about Bayesian statistics. I really don't see how those two fields are comparable... I guess they both deal with stats, but in very different ways.

Why not just take a free online machine learning course and see if you like it?

Sign up for this class:CaltechX: CS1156x: Learning From Data | edX

The class has already finished, but you still have access to all the videos.

As a co-requisite, head over to this class (just started) on probability theory:MITx: 6.041x: Introduction to Probability - The Science of Uncertainty | edX

Given the availability of free online courses, why not just sample a few fields to see what you find interesting? Way cheaper than getting started on a Masters and you'll at least get a sense of the field. When you decide to go for something, courses will be just a little easier since you won't be hearing everything for the first time.

Also Coursera has a machine learning class starting in a week or two. (Taught by one of the better know names in th field). Its a more dumb down version of the same class that you can find on stanfords enigineering everywhere website There is also a data analysis and statistics class from duke on coursera that just started. The material is a stat 101 course with R programming tossed in. Also john hopkins has a 7 or 8 course sequence on data science starting in april and it is also on coursera. And stanford is half way through a statistical learning class as well. Oh and udacity has a few data classes too. Shit ton of stuff out there, most of it fairly well made. Dive in!

Crone · Feb 22, 2014

I didn't realize so much stuff was online, and seemingly for free? This is blowing my mind.

Noodleface · Feb 22, 2014

Yeah welcome to the digital revolution. The thing with the free stuff is great, but if a job is looking for a degree you'll have to really enroll.

Take as many intro classes as you can, if you sort of enjoy the topics you'll have a good idea if it's the right choice for you. I've met a ton of people that wanted to program and have taken one intro level class and gotten right the fuck out of the major.

Crone · Feb 22, 2014

I did that back in 1999 over a summer class on Visual Basic. Passed the class but I knew I didn't want to program. Funny though, as I enjoy the shit out of tinkering with people's macros they've created for eq and wow. I had more fun tinkering with the macros that ran my 6 toons in eq than actually playing the game.

Would any of the above classes mentioned be better than another for getting a general idea, and hence whether I like or dislike, big data or not? I appreciate it.

wormie · Feb 22, 2014

Crone_sl said:
I did that back in 1999 over a summer class on Visual Basic. Passed the class but I knew I didn't want to program. Funny though, as I enjoy the shit out of tinkering with people's macros they've created for eq and wow. I had more fun tinkering with the macros that ran my 6 toons in eq than actually playing the game.

Would any of the above classes mentioned be better than another for getting a general idea, and hence whether I like or dislike, big data or not? I appreciate it.

I would separate the available classes into two categories; One that requires some undergraduate math background and another that just requires you know how to add and multiply.

Shit that requires some math:
The probability course that Soriak mentioned requires knowledge of computational calculus. This class, imo, is very important starting point for anyone who wants to understand WHY statistics work.
The Learning from Data, also mentioned by Soriak, requires a probability class and some linear algebra.
The Machine Learning class from Engineering Everywhere requires knowledge of same. (Just like most applied math classes, the more linear algebra you know, the better)
Statistical Learning from Stanford OpenEd platform requires the same probability and linear algebra knowledge.

Shit that requires basic math:
Machine learning on Coursera
The John Hopkins Data science track (coursera)
Data Analysis and Statistical Inference (coursera)

Both types of courses require some knowledge of programming. Does not have to be advanced as some are 100 level difficulty and will teach you whatever is needed. However, a tiny bit of being comfortable with basic programming knowledge goes a long way. There are a bunch of other courses and I would separate all of them in a similar manner; "Math" or "Less Math".

Personally, I am of an opinion that knowledge of the probability theory underlying statistical methods is CRUCIAL for anyone who wants to understand why things work the way they do. But not everyone would agree (especially because its math but math rules and those who dont agree are bad people).

PS. to answer your question as to which class is the better one to start with, I would have to go with the Machine Learning class that is starting soon on Coursera or this:MITx: 6.00.2x: Introduction to Computational Thinking and Data Science | edX

Noodleface · Feb 27, 2014

I was looking up the whole thing where my work pays for my masters degree. There's a whole bunch of schools that they'll pay for the full ride (Northeastern, BU, etc), but you are not limited to those schools - they'll just pay $10k/year. One of the schools was Brandeis which I had never really considered and didn't know much about it. Apparently it's a pretty high ranking school that I never paid attention to. They'll pay the full cost of attending for the entire MS in Software Engineering. I think I'd be a fool not to take this up.

Not really wanting to go back to school just yet, but probably within a year or so.

BrutulTM · Feb 27, 2014

McCheese_sl said:
Do whatever the hell you are passionate about, man. Don't worry if it's "getting more and more popular" or if it's "in pretty high demand." Obviously, ignore this advice if you have a family that you need to support with a specific salary. Of course, in that case I'd tell you to pick SOMETHING and stick with it so you can start advancing up the ladder and provide a higher salary and better future for your family.

It sounds like you're just bouncing around looking for that perfect storm of job availability + money + enjoyment. Good luck with that. If you have the time and ability to experiment and dabble in different things (and from your posts it seems that you do) then find something that you will wake up in the morning and look forward to doing all day. Something that you'll spend nights and weekends doing without pay simply because you enjoy it.

I wasted 6 years thinking I wanted to work with computers because the field had good job prospects, I built home computers, and I played EQ. But it wasn't a passion, and I consider the moment I dropped computers and went with what I wanted--despite the objections of everyone I knew about not being able to find a job, being useless, etc.--to be the best decision I've made in my life.

I agree with this, but it's not always easy to know what you are passionate about. Even taking classes on the subject sadly won't tell you whether or not you will like the work. You really have no idea what it's like working in the field even after you graduate from college.

I loved my computer programming classes in high school, so I decided that I wanted to go to college for that. No one explained to me that electronics engineering is not the same as computer science, or I probably would have gone for that instead of EE. No worries though, I like the electronics too. Over the years I have found out that my true passion is designing and building things and solving problems. I think I would have been happy programming or being in any branch of engineering, but I didn't really learn that until I had been out doing a job for 5 or 6 years. Now I am totally out of the electronics world, but right now I am designing and building an adjustable width gate for my portable cattle working alley and it's just as much fun as any circuit board I ever worked on. I have a hundred things I want to do to try to improve my corrals and my shop and everything else and it's the sort of thing that I am willing to work late into the night on, not because there is a deadline or anything, but just because I'm into it and having fun.

A lot of it is your attitude as well. I am blessed with being a natural optimist and no matter what happens I am rarely miserable or depressed. My brother on the other hand, would probably not be as content as I am if he was getting paid a million dollars a year to be the vagina tester at Playboy.

Crone · Feb 27, 2014

I completely agree with you that it can be very hard to figure out what you want to do. I'm in that spot right now trying to figure it out. I know that I do not want to do what I'm doing now for the rest of my life, but I could work for the company. So the thought is, do I wait until I'm in a different department, and see what schooling would benefit me in that department, or just go to school for something I think I would like, and go from there.

It's tough decisions, it doesn't help that my family is expanding as time goes on. Only makes going back to school harder.

We all gotta figure it out at some point, I'm just one of those late bloomers I think that are still clinging to their video games of days gone by. lol

chaos · Mar 16, 2014

What is the consensus on honor societies? I got offers from a couple, some Golden Key shit and Phi Kappa Phi, and the internet seems split on whether these things are worthwhile or not. I am leaning towards no just on the basis of them charging money.

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