War Dogs PvPvP 100 Person Tactical Shooter

Sludig

Sludig

Potato del Grande
12,230
13,389
gauze said:
I think this is more or less becoming a norm across the board. Arma Reforger is the same, Battlebit had it, I want to the last three? Battlefields, Squad. It's essentially everyone can do it, but medics do it better. I want to say a normalization carried over from BR's but that's just a theory. I think HLL is the last bastion in the idea that only a medic can revive, but they also have much faster return to battle mechanics.. Soon Tarkov will "have" it too rofl, or w/e the knockout mechanic is.

Personally, I am ok with it because of the 10min apc cooldown.. and a general long return to fight mechanic(drive/fly, imagine running back).. ontop of kit investment.. and accidental deaths? christ it's a blessing in disguise. Ever parachute and smack a side of a building and now your parachute is gone and you've fallen to your death. Jump out of a heli at what would seem to be safe and manage to momentum yourself onto a building that just happens to be a little taller than everything around and now you're smeared on its roof.. or you get out next to the single enemy crab walking and happens to kill you and get waxed by your team? Waiting for a medic would be agonizing. Would I rather be picked up by paddles? Absolutely, thats two bandages instead of the three from hands or resp.. could that balance be different; sure.

Only thing I want from a Hardcore server is UI removal. Everything else can get bent.. game becomes way too easy when TTK gets messed w/ in most games, and I have no reason to not think it'd be different in WD.

I've actually started to swap my kit when I have a squad to a Mosin, 3-6, AP, G18/HP, Paddles, Fent, Smokes, and extra meds.. having a ton of success. I always looted paddles, so figured why not just run them.



I'm the same way, while I don't have the largest sample size.. but my friend is the opposite. You gotta become the car salesman, the sign spinner.. and really throw out the GET CHA HOTDOGS, COLD BEER.. out there and you'll make money. Just dropping it and leaving it is definitely relying on hope that someone will do it.. but also bandages, smokes, and ammo are pretty common battle pickups. Nades Medkits and Launchers will prob go further in a HZ drop. It's the same w/ buying gear for teammates, selling SV98's and MK22 or Galil's and M4s won't move at all.. but if you start selling 50cal, GL's, Vectors, and FALs; it'll move infinitely faster.

With the sorta buy gear for your teammates meta growing, almost every single one of the content creators has something in common and it's that the'yre really out there telling people to buy their wares.
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I've been a little confused about the big red medkit, said increase rez speed. Not sure if that's hands or with paddle.

One argument against anyone rez is it really boosts the snowball effect if 2 squads clash. The winners are likely getting just about everyone up while the other side is split between car hello and apc. With medics you have to hope they didn't get themselves killed and less likely to scoop up every guy if the fight took more than 2 minutes.
 
gauze

gauze

Molten Core Raider
1,234
488
Sludig said:
I've been a little confused about the big red medkit, said increase rez speed. Not sure if that's hands or with paddle.

One argument against anyone rez is it really boosts the snowball effect if 2 squads clash. The winners are likely getting just about everyone up while the other side is split between car hello and apc. With medics you have to hope they didn't get themselves killed and less likely to scoop up every guy if the fight took more than 2 minutes.
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The medbag? If you're full on healer medic, I think it's worth.. but most people are medic second, pewpew first. It uses durability as a charge, and while I don't have math on it.. it's not as good as a med kit for a single heal but the amount of heals it does is greater, esp for the size ratio.. iirc my friend says when using it on yourself the durability burn is x2, so it's much better for healing others. It's 2x2?? and basically 4x the amount of bandages for the slots.. and maybe 2x the amount of medkit? or 1.5x? Pure dedicated healer, prob useless outside of that as it doesn't res faster than defibs and hp gained from a heal is about a bandage or more. I think it reviving burns a lot of durability too and it isn't faster than a defib, its basically a respirator.

While I see the argument, the time it takes to rub your hands together is so damn long.. most times the zerg has got a network of paddles keeping the fight going. I'd say from either sniping or being in an active gunfight; the people rubbing their hands together get blasted so quick. It's when they're 50-100 meters out of the main line is hands incredibly strong. It's just better to dig for a respirator and you can atleast kinda move to obfuscate the headshot.. even dragging is dangerous. I snipe people all the time trying to drag someone into cover. When I drag people, I drag drop drag drop. I guess you could smoke and hands, but drop a nade and it's over lol; which I see a lot of, given the right distance of engagement.

I don't know if they'll ever do it, but when they add the ability to drag supply crates around and people can start fortifying locations.. thats when handrubbing will be dangerous. I did it a lot in Battlebit, hit a building, fortify it with bags and wire.. make it nigh impossible to physically assault.. but that whole idea of wiring buildings off or bagging up hasn't really taken in full effect yet; but when a supply crate comes in and you can lockdown a set of buildings with bags, hedgehogs, and wire cus you got a box of supp.. buys enough time to continously res until mortar, rpgs, ied, nades, or c4 start crumbling your miniature stronghold.
 
Mao

Mao

Trakanon Raider
754
1,792
Sludig said:
I've been a little confused about the big red medkit, said increase rez speed. Not sure if that's hands or with paddle.

One argument against anyone rez is it really boosts the snowball effect if 2 squads clash. The winners are likely getting just about everyone up while the other side is split between car hello and apc. With medics you have to hope they didn't get themselves killed and less likely to scoop up every guy if the fight took more than 2 minutes.
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This hits the basic issue I have with anyone being able to revive. I know, as the game is now, it would be very harsh economy balance wise if only a medic class could revive. Don't class lock it, just make it an item. Revive masks, paddles, etc. But you are right. Game atm is 'balanced' around all can revive. I used the word balanced with a tonne of sarcasm cause this game's balance is a mess.

But, the issue is how little effect attrition has on whatever group is winning the death ball. If you hit hotzone, or run into another squad and you are outnumbered but you give better than you get. Say 4 on 6. You kill 5, but the last one on their team manages to kill you. Unless someone else shows up to keep up the pressure the winning side gets to revive everyone and use your inventory to restock. There is a slow attrition as armor is reduced and possibly med supply if the people you kill don't have them, but I've been in quite a few death balls that have been completely self sustaining up to the point they are finally out of ammo and all the armor is broken. And this seems to be the most common winning strat lately. Death ball up and go FOB to FOB just killing everyone and blow up their spawn vehicle. Once thats done the other teams are respawning in intermittent waves and they've lost cohesion. The death ball racks up points until it finally bogs down and runs out of materials.

It also makes the tower sniper battles hilarious. Just not stop killing and reviving and farming each other for XP and cash until the death ball finally shows up and puts an end to it.
 
Hekotat

Hekotat

FoH nuclear response team
13,502
14,107
Mao said:
This hits the basic issue I have with anyone being able to revive. I know, as the game is now, it would be very harsh economy balance wise if only a medic class could revive. Don't class lock it, just make it an item. Revive masks, paddles, etc. But you are right. Game atm is 'balanced' around all can revive. I used the word balanced with a tonne of sarcasm cause this game's balance is a mess.

But, the issue is how little effect attrition has on whatever group is winning the death ball. If you hit hotzone, or run into another squad and you are outnumbered but you give better than you get. Say 4 on 6. You kill 5, but the last one on their team manages to kill you. Unless someone else shows up to keep up the pressure the winning side gets to revive everyone and use your inventory to restock. There is a slow attrition as armor is reduced and possibly med supply if the people you kill don't have them, but I've been in quite a few death balls that have been completely self sustaining up to the point they are finally out of ammo and all the armor is broken. And this seems to be the most common winning strat lately. Death ball up and go FOB to FOB just killing everyone and blow up their spawn vehicle. Once thats done the other teams are respawning in intermittent waves and they've lost cohesion. The death ball racks up points until it finally bogs down and runs out of materials.

It also makes the tower sniper battles hilarious. Just not stop killing and reviving and farming each other for XP and cash until the death ball finally shows up and puts an end to it.
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The Miyagi revive is fine, it takes so long to revive that it's risky as fuck. I've died more times attempting it than it has worked out in my favor.
 
Xevy

Xevy

Log Wizard
9,757
4,881
Some of the killcams are problematic because:

A: it doesn't show WHERE you were shot from, it shows where the shooter IS.

and

B: The server desync is pretty bad, especially in longer running servers. You can die around a corner very, VERY easily. Probably worse when there's a million FoB's up full of shit.

The first part can be solved with the red silhouette of where the shooter was when they shot you, I think BF6 did that. The second part is just a limitation of the game type and one of the reasons they said they can't really go much above 100 people. Just current shooter tech limitations. FoBs adding in a good hundred+ more dynamic objects with health pools and shit just bogs everything down.

Allegedly Havoc damage is getting buffed today, so that'll be awful.
 
gauze

gauze

Molten Core Raider
1,234
488
I love the killcam haha.. I surrender emote everytime I get a dumb non-headshot kill as a sniper.. 10 minutes later the guy dies to me again after trying to rush me only to bitch and moan. If I could have a HC server with the same TTK, just remove the HUD or minimap.. seeing "spots" is only when you pull up the map.. and zero killcam/followcams; would be pretty cool but I think it adds to the base game to keep those things. Definitely in the regards to casual the experience, it's the toasty for the normal audience.

And yeah, while i'm not having a ton of dying behind walls.. there are many moments I shoot the head only to see the dust plume behind them.. and its not a moving shot or anything, literally just crouched on a fence and its like, hm ok?

Sound for me is the weirdest one, and I haven't quite pinned it. There are people who are moving and making no sound. I'd be ok w/ it being a walk or tied to weight, but literally watching someone sprint across the street less than 10m and hearing no footstep but they look like they're in t2/t3 but other instances you hear them clunking along seems kinda weird.

Also, apparently Havocs are a twoshot with an RPG-7.. and incredibly easy to hit with the gustav. Really hope they add diff kinds of rocket ammunitions
 
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Xevy

Xevy

Log Wizard
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I've had that happen when I see guys sprinting at me and making no noise, but mostly if it's close I just assume they're holding alt while walking. Learned the other day you can hold Alt while climbing a ladder to make 0 noise which is pretty important for clearing towers.
 
Mao

Mao

Trakanon Raider
754
1,792
Hekotat said:
The Miyagi revive is fine, it takes so long to revive that it's risky as fuck. I've died more times attempting it than it has worked out in my favor.
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If you are trying to do some clutch save in the middle of enemy forces as you are being overrun, yes. If you are trying to tug a guy off after a sniper without realizing the angle and getting into cover, yes. But, if you are in a death ball and lead guy gets popped and you pull him back while others fire its slow yes, but you can easily control it while holding a hot zone. The benefit is it takes no resources. I am oddly cool with the revive masks and the defibs. They are great for tense situations, but they cost resources. Being able to just rotate a guy back to give him the old rub and tug when you are in a big squad you can just keep it going. Its the game, and I understand its their vision. But personally, I would like to see it take resources. Inventory space to revive seems a good idea, and it facilitates more resupply play dropping crates into the hot zone and weakens the death ball a bit, which atm I think is needed in game.

For context, when I am in a death ball its usually a massive, 2/3d the team thing. Often with the majority of them in a squad communicating. So rarely are you pushing out into exposed area without people to recover you back to safety etc. You move cover to cover, get clipped and someone is usually able to drag you back while others shoot whoever sticks their head out to snipe. In cases where its sketchy, smoke and defibs cover it. You rarely ever carry the defib mask unless you are just filling inventory with the freebie, as more healing meds is always the better choice for keeping the ball rolling.

The other problem I have with the Miyagi rub is your 2 or 3 man sniper team that just hang out in the edge of the zone harassing fobbits. They stay fairly offset and coordinate, you kill them and unless you go out there and take their gear their buddy just crawls up and revives them and it continues. Its a valid tactic, but the effort to reward ratio is heavily skewed. It takes far more people and effort to dislodge them than it does to do it. Counter sniping is of limited effectiveness cause of the infinite revives and if you go out to take their gear you need a couple people to go otherwise his buddy who is watching the body snipes you when you do it. QRF vehicle can work, but then you need someone to keep resetting it otherwise it 'despawns' by exploding.
 
Mao

Mao

Trakanon Raider
754
1,792
Separate post for separate topic.

The cheating is bad, but now the griefing is coming out. With no team lockouts etc, discord stacks are having people join the opposing team and grief, give intel, destroy supply boxes, drive the APC away etc. I don't believe there is any way to counter it and had kinda expected it coming, but its finally arrived in more and more of the games I have been playing.
 
gauze

gauze

Molten Core Raider
1,234
488
Mao said:
Separate post for separate topic.

The cheating is bad, but now the griefing is coming out. With no team lockouts etc, discord stacks are having people join the opposing team and grief, give intel, destroy supply boxes, drive the APC away etc. I don't believe there is any way to counter it and had kinda expected it coming, but its finally arrived in more and more of the games I have been playing.
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I've been slowly migrating to community servers, haven't really found forever home/s.. but its been a vastly different experience; I don't really know how to explain it. I got tired of playing 100-1-2 games and so I started to try.. and have started noticing that one person in the one game that weirdly just dominates everybody but you don't quite have your finger on the pulse outside of a maybe seems to be gone pretty quickly, or just never there to begin with.

As well as it seems there is a decent variety of players on these community servers too.. Some young, some old, all out there trying to do their thing. The official servers feel like they've kinda fallen off a little bit on the whimsical. While I haven't ran into that specifically, and maybe I have.. there was a guy who kept building 1x1 hesco's outside the walls lol.. but i've ran into weird 300-400k earners sitting 0-0-0.. and i'm presuming they're doing the drill cheese where you have people on opposite teams in a little fob and they destroy it over and over making bank.

Supposedly airwingmarine's server, if you have a vacban on your account; automatically banned.. and you can appeal it, can be forgiving if it was one like 2000+ days ago but according to him if its like 100 days old; get fucked go away.
 
Xevy

Xevy

Log Wizard
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I wanted to play Community server with Infantry mode. There were like 10-20 servers and the most on any one server was 6 people.
 
gauze

gauze

Molten Core Raider
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488
I wonder if it has to do with people thinking "Infantry Mode" means boots only? I know the 50v50 servers are seemingly popping.

I mostly been targetting any clan tag server because in my mind, they're pretty ass but trying to play the game; so I just go to dog on em.
 
Mao

Mao

Trakanon Raider
754
1,792
I said it earlier, but I think community servers will be the life blood of this game. Especially if they give the server admins more tools to mix up game modes, equipment access etc. Just having mods that can keep an eye on game play and deal with griefers and cheaters would be a plus. That is the quiet hope I have for the game, cause I don't see how you can really moderate public servers and I have my doubts on the devs being able to balance the game in a meaningful manner.
 
gauze

gauze

Molten Core Raider
1,234
488
Being as its EA, i'm with you half way; community servers will be its life blood.. if not for the rules and mode sets; but I doubt mods. I think they'll do fine, so long as they don't nerf the "fun" they'll keep a healthy bit going. It's basically what shot Arc and Battlebit or Helldivers to some extent in the foot, they nerfed fun instead of facilitating it(which isn't easy). You want one thing, another portion of the community wants another. Everyone is a resident expert.

Brammer is bringing jets, and i'm sure a slew of guns.. and everyting. So much stuff is missing inside of fobs and basing. I would be surprised the game we have today will be the game 1 year from now.

We don't even have the black market or w/e marketing thing they want. I'm pretty sure the whoah is high tier gun and armor is gonna fold when you can buy sets of gear that you can't access in game for warbucks outside of the game; limited stock but useable ingame. Or even the roguelike // runescape skill progression they talk about, where if you are a medic your whole time playing you get medic bonuses that persist through the seasons.

While it's sentiment here is the havoc is op, that shit is so ass.. same with the tank. It's really good when you're a head and punching down because they can't do anything but when you're toe to toe, it gets ripped out of the air so damn quick.. good little birds are scarier.
 
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Mao

Mao

Trakanon Raider
754
1,792
gauze said:
Being as its EA, i'm with you half way; community servers will be its life blood.. if not for the rules and mode sets; but I doubt mods. I think they'll do fine, so long as they don't nerf the "fun" they'll keep a healthy bit going. It's basically what shot Arc and Battlebit or Helldivers to some extent in the foot, they nerfed fun instead of facilitating it(which isn't easy). You want one thing, another portion of the community wants another. Everyone is a resident expert.

Brammer is bringing jets, and i'm sure a slew of guns.. and everyting. So much stuff is missing inside of fobs and basing. I would be surprised the game we have today will be the game 1 year from now.

We don't even have the black market or w/e marketing thing they want. I'm pretty sure the whoah is high tier gun and armor is gonna fold when you can buy sets of gear that you can't access in game for warbucks outside of the game; limited stock but useable ingame. Or even the roguelike // runescape skill progression they talk about, where if you are a medic your whole time playing you get medic bonuses that persist through the seasons.

While it's sentiment here is the havoc is op, that shit is so ass.. same with the tank. It's really good when you're a head and punching down because they can't do anything but when you're toe to toe, it gets ripped out of the air so damn quick.. good little birds are scarier.
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By mods I mean moderators, people who ban cheaters and griefers, not mods as in changing the game mods. Also, I think community servers will help facilitate more organized play which will extend the life of the game.
 
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