Westworld

TJT said:

Not sure I I'm following. What's your reasoning?

Click to expand...

So if there were 2 time lines, WIlliams and the MiBs, then the Security guy seeing the MiB and being in his timeline and in different episodes interacting with people who had had direct contact with William would preclude that theory.

I might be wrong, because Im thinking William is the MiB as well, but making that link would kill it.

but....

There does appear to be evidence that the show is operating in only one timeline. The Head of Security — Stubbs — has issued orders for both the Man in Black and Dolores when she is traveling with William. In the Man in Black's case, he approved his pyrotechnics request and told an employee, "that man gets whatever he wants."

Click to expand...

yeah, I don't know what is going on. what is fords motivations? playing god seems to be it only.. he has been shown and claimed total omniscience about what is going on in the park.

someone messed with Maeve, prior to techs. Was it Ford? the obvious case atm. But, then, why? and is he aware of the techs now? the omniscience would say yes. does he want sentience? every overt action and his own words from Ford seems to be, no. Ford seems to want slaves. So, why is Bernard seemingly helping them gain awareness? Is this Arnold? and if Ford just wants to play god, and have his minions.. he already has this. so what exactly IS all this Machiavelli shit?

Hard to believe this is not going a ghost in the shell, copy human mind into a digital one for immortality route. or replicant, replacing real people with robot copies.

Lleauaric said:

Didn't the head of security guy observe him in the main time line and say "That guest can have whatever he wants". I think it was in the second episode.. not sure.

Click to expand...

That was in the present with the MIB, not in the past with William (if this theory is indeed correct). There has been no direct interaction between William or Logan and anyone in the present timeline. Also, in episode 2, the MIB tells Lawrence that they're old friends and have known each other a long time, yet he never told the MIB that he had a family (hence why the MIB takes him to that town where he kills everyone). There is also the key evidence that so far, only Dolores, the MIB, and William know that his real name is Lawrence.

The only evidence against William being the MIB is when the head of security is told that Dolores is off her loop, and that they need to retrieve her, but again, just because the next scene is someone grabbing ahold of Dolores in the town and saying that she needs to come with him doesn't necessarily mean it's the same timeline.

If that scene is a coincidence with the only purpose being to deceive your audience, it's a stupid, shitty, retarded scene. I'd rather them just say "oops, we're dumb and didn't catch that."

The head of security is probably a robot too. Would makes sense Ford would want the head of security to be "his guy" so if things go south the guns are on his side.

Lanx said:

When he orders Bernad to kill her, he says

"and in that sleep what dreams may come"

The correct hamlet line is

"For in that sleep of death, what dreams may come"

purposeful? i just googled the line, i don't know about these gay plays.

Click to expand...

How could you type the into google while jerking off two dicks? Get it? Knowing Shakespeare is gay.

but for real, I don't think that is anything other than dumbing it down a bit to make it more clear to the audience. For anyone knowing the reference, they would still understand. And its cleaner to the unwashed masses.

Here's my reasoning for thinking that William is the MIB.
1. William makes his appearance in episode 2, "Chestnut." The Westworld logo is obviously different when he's at the park. The host tells him he can choose whatever he wants. They show the black hat, he chooses the white (foreshadowing).

2. In the same episode, the Man in Black takes Lawrence to his home town where Lawrence's family lives. He tells Lawrence that they're old friends. He also tells Lawrence "you could say that I was born here." I'm thinking now that he's referring to the MIB persona, which is obviously completely different than who he is outside of the park. He also knows his name is Lawrence, which is only given to William and Dolores on the train at the end of episode 5.

3. We know that William is engaged to Logan's sister. It is heavily implied that the company he works for is run by Logan's family, which would mean he's marrying into the family that owns the company. We also know that the MIB is a super rich owner of a company, has the money to have been coming to the park for 30 years, and that despite his persona as the MIB in the park, is a philanthropist outside of the park. Would make sense that he somehow wrangles control of the company from Logan and is now the president.

4. The MIB kills Lawrence in episode 5 in order to save Flood. In the very next scene, Lawrence is alive and in Pariah to meet Logan and William. There wouldn't have been enough time for the park employees to have retrieved his body, fix it, and put it in a remote part of the park that quickly (or so we're lead to believe).

5. William is obviously changing while inside the park. He's becoming more violent and less worried about the well being of the hosts (except for Dolores). In episode 2, Logan tells William he's dying to meet the side of William that he doesn't even know yet exists (the MIB).

6. They show that the MIB and William have the same knife. Could it be just a coincidence? Sure, but this show has gone out of its way to reveal to the audience things that turn out to be extremely relevant to the story.

What I think happens to pull this all together:
William is now obviously in love with Dolores. Eventually, he'll have to leave the park, and in turn, leave Dolores. Upon returning to the park, some time later, Dolores' mind has been wiped clean, and she has absolutely no recollection of who William is or their time together. William is heart broken. After returning to the park numerous more times, and realizing each time that no matter what he does, she'll never remember who he is, he becomes completely jaded and takes on the MIB persona, hence the reason we get the line in episode 1: "I've been coming here for 30 years, and you still don't remember who I am." He then realizes the only way to be with Dolores forever and remain in the park is to figure out the maze. This is why we also get the line in episode 2 when he tells Lawrence, "you don't get it, this time I don't plan on leaving."

Saw this on reddit and agree with it.

"The secret lab is definitely the same room we have seen Bernard and Dolores talking. And with the reveal that hosts can't see images or objects they aren't programmed to, I believe the picture Ford showed Bernard with the third empty spot confirms that Bernard is a recreation of Arnold. Therefore, the conversations we have seen between Arnold and Dolores are from the distant past, when he was first playing around with host consciousness. This also proves that they are playing around with showing different time periods as if they are happening at the same time. And also proves that Dolores isn't teleporting back and forth."

Nice catch, indulge is his would you kindly

etchazz said:

Here's my reasoning for thinking that William is the MIB.
3. We know that William is engaged to Logan's sister. It is heavily implied that the company he works for is run by Logan's family, which would mean he's marrying into the family that owns the company. We also know that the MIB is a super rich owner of a company, has the money to have been coming to the park for 30 years, and that despite his persona as the MIB in the park, is a philanthropist outside of the park. Would make sense that he somehow wrangles control of the company from Logan and is now the president.
"

Click to expand...

It's not just implied, he straight up tells Delores on the train that his fiancée's father owns the company he works at. I see two paths this can take - the one you note is the more likely path. Maybe Logan gets killed in the park or something, and William and his wife become the heir's to the father's company.

A more interesting possibility could be that a rift forms between Logan and himself due to whatever happens in the park. The change that the park brings in William sparks something in his professional life and he become more of a self-made success rather than just inheriting his father-in-law's company. Logan said their company was considering buying the park when it was hemorrhaging cash. Still think there's a chance that Delos is his father's company...

Springbok said:

Terrifically acted, love Hopkins in that role

Click to expand...

It's very "Silence of the Lambs" style of creepy.

^yeah yesterday's scene in the train was laying it on pretty thick in regards to MiB/William.

The bot being built in in the room Bernie bot does the deed in is a woman, essentially Ford is already building QA chicks bot as shes walking down the stairs.

show redeemed, loved this episode. expect to flip flop again next week.

one moment absolutely floored me - when the indians attacked the confederates, william has a shit eating grin on his face. The exact same grin I have in MMOs when two NPC factions start attacking each other, and all you can think is "fucking hell, this shit is cool as fuck. I wonder who is gonna win... and what loot they will drop."

between this and watching Arrival today i'm in sci fi heaven

"What door" fucking chills man. 2016, year of Doors