I've been reading these books since The Dragon Reborn was first published. Great ending to a series I have loved reading for over two decades! We've known for years now that RJ was not going to leave us with a clean ending and yet people are still complaining? What??? I love it, the series is over but every now and again you can think of what might be happening after those last pages.
Wheel of Time series
- Thread starter Wolfen_sl
- Start date
I think if he balefired himself it wouldn't really do much. Given the way balefire works, wouldn't it erase things he had done a certain length from the time he got hit with balefire, which would include when he balefired himself and thus, I assume, undoing it.
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I also think he wanted a permanent ending. Balefire doesn't destroy the soul - I believe he can be reborn sometime in the future if he gets balefired.
There is a difference between a clean ending and creating new storylines at what is supposed to be the ending. Take the last line of the book.
"But it wasanending."
An ending for whom?
Not that I needed complete closure for everyone, but to at least seen some character arcs definitively finished would have been nice
Hm is that how it works? I thought it burned their thread out of the pattern for good and they couldn't be reborn. I thought that was why we never see Rahvin again, because once they are balefired even the Dark One cannot claim their soul.
I could be wrong..it's been a really long time since I read that part of the series.
Also to quickly add, just from past books.
I think the reason why Elayne is such an unpopular character is that (and this is just my opinion here) but she was supposed to be Jordan's attempt at a kind of political intrigue narrative (maybe influenced by growing popularity of Game of Thrones) when, prior to this, Jordan's Great Game consisted mainly of describing when people coughed and/or shifted their eyes when talking about a king or queen.
As a character Elayne is daughter of the former queen, a powerful Aes Sedai, lover to the world's messiah... it almost necesitates her doing stupid and annoying shit to put her in position of vulnerability to make it appear as though a handful of nobles hiding in the woods could ever pose a legitimate threat. Thats why I think it may have been tacked on by Jordan, like an attempt that he could tell that kind of story which, in retrospect, he couldn't.
I think the reason why Elayne is such an unpopular character is that (and this is just my opinion here) but she was supposed to be Jordan's attempt at a kind of political intrigue narrative (maybe influenced by growing popularity of Game of Thrones) when, prior to this, Jordan's Great Game consisted mainly of describing when people coughed and/or shifted their eyes when talking about a king or queen.
As a character Elayne is daughter of the former queen, a powerful Aes Sedai, lover to the world's messiah... it almost necesitates her doing stupid and annoying shit to put her in position of vulnerability to make it appear as though a handful of nobles hiding in the woods could ever pose a legitimate threat. Thats why I think it may have been tacked on by Jordan, like an attempt that he could tell that kind of story which, in retrospect, he couldn't.
Decado
Golden Knight of the Realm
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Solid and very enjoyable end to the story i though. Some minor niggles and loose ends but plenty of fantastic scenes with the odd humerous moment and quite a few WTF bits
20+ years since i started this story and I have to say that on doing a full run through it was overall, for me, a great story. Wavered a bit in the middle and has some weak areas but well worth a re-read every so often. I think Sanderson has made an excellent job of finishing the series, i've really enjoyed his books easily as much as the jordan ones, seems to have a bit of flair for dramatic scenes. Solid A-
20+ years since i started this story and I have to say that on doing a full run through it was overall, for me, a great story. Wavered a bit in the middle and has some weak areas but well worth a re-read every so often. I think Sanderson has made an excellent job of finishing the series, i've really enjoyed his books easily as much as the jordan ones, seems to have a bit of flair for dramatic scenes. Solid A-
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I believe balefire's time affect is what prevents the Dark One from rebirthing his followers. He stated himself that even he could not reach outside of time or something.
Gask
Bronze Baron of the Realm
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Please forgive the negative tone of my post, those of you who enjoy the book greatly, for I do enjoy reading parts of it and I do understand why many like it but I also find much in it that I do not.
I am about halfway through this last book and all that I can say is that I sincerely hope that his efforts in bringing this series to a close do not go on to color Sanderson's personal works in the future. I am having a hard time empathizing or connecting with most of the main characters as they are, for the most part, merely amalgams of crass quips, petty sentiments and narrow minded stubbornness. The few characters that I do enjoy are underdeveloped and are used as props to give short perspectives in various events here and there throughout the narrative. Of course this is not really Sanderson's fault as he is for the most part channeling Jordan admirably and staying true to the tone of the overall series but it is a bit of a let down for me.
My main compliant about this series as a whole is that when PoV characters collide the story takes a backseat to bickering, repetitive arguments and meaningless and often rehashed introspection. Only in isolation do the main characters have a chance to shine and form any sort of bond with the reader as they accomplish goals and actually interact with people on a semi normal and real level apart from the overpowering arrogance that almost every woman in the book seems to possess.
I read the whole series last year and after reading the first two books I came away from the experience impressed, surprised and rather curious about where all the negativity regarding the rest of the series came from... then I read the third book and the rest and found out. I read on mainly because I knew, for the most part, what to expect and was able to liberally skim past most of the repetitive nonsense that dragged down the series. This allowed me to read the series in a decent time frame and follow the plot without inducing me to gouge my eyes out of their sockets
.
All of that aside, I suppose I am writing this mainly to vent and perhaps commiserate with anyone who shares my opinions, anyway I hope that the ending pays off and brings an interesting conclusion to a plot that I have enjoyed enough to continue reading.
-Cheers
I am about halfway through this last book and all that I can say is that I sincerely hope that his efforts in bringing this series to a close do not go on to color Sanderson's personal works in the future. I am having a hard time empathizing or connecting with most of the main characters as they are, for the most part, merely amalgams of crass quips, petty sentiments and narrow minded stubbornness. The few characters that I do enjoy are underdeveloped and are used as props to give short perspectives in various events here and there throughout the narrative. Of course this is not really Sanderson's fault as he is for the most part channeling Jordan admirably and staying true to the tone of the overall series but it is a bit of a let down for me.
My main compliant about this series as a whole is that when PoV characters collide the story takes a backseat to bickering, repetitive arguments and meaningless and often rehashed introspection. Only in isolation do the main characters have a chance to shine and form any sort of bond with the reader as they accomplish goals and actually interact with people on a semi normal and real level apart from the overpowering arrogance that almost every woman in the book seems to possess.
I read the whole series last year and after reading the first two books I came away from the experience impressed, surprised and rather curious about where all the negativity regarding the rest of the series came from... then I read the third book and the rest and found out. I read on mainly because I knew, for the most part, what to expect and was able to liberally skim past most of the repetitive nonsense that dragged down the series. This allowed me to read the series in a decent time frame and follow the plot without inducing me to gouge my eyes out of their sockets
All of that aside, I suppose I am writing this mainly to vent and perhaps commiserate with anyone who shares my opinions, anyway I hope that the ending pays off and brings an interesting conclusion to a plot that I have enjoyed enough to continue reading.
-Cheers
Grimmlokk
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Azrayne
Irenicus did nothing wrong
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I'd agree with you, but Egwene was involved in a very similar political power struggle for much of the latter half of the series, and that's where her character thrived. I hated Egwene just as much as Elayne in the first few books (well she was ok in EOTW, relatively speaking) but in the last 4 or 5 books she starts kicking ass as Amyrlin outta nowhere and actually becomes an interesting, believable character. Elayne never made that kind of growth or transition.
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One thing to note is that the past 3,000 years of women being the way they are in this series - is that it is generally accepted that men were responsible for the breaking of the world, hence why so many of the female characters are the way they are with their overall attitudes. I think Jordan stated that somewhere but I can't find the source. I only partially believe that the way Jordan wrote women was completely influenced by his relationships with his wife and sisters.
Azrayne
Irenicus did nothing wrong
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Well it makes sense that women would have a degree of perceived authority or superiority in the historical context of the men breaking the world and women being the only legit channelers. Although it's kind of a dick move, since the men basically took one for the team and locked the DO away. Without that, they'd all be dead anyway. But I think his idea to explore (if you could call it that) those gender roles came from some kind of RL inspiration.
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I agree - men got the short end when Lews Therin sealed the Dark One. In terms of attitude - it can be seen the most in Far Madding and how they treat their men (re-read Winter's Heart).
Phayd
Golden Knight of the Realm
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This is from a twitter Q\A today, tried to make it managable:
Okay, the pipe lighting . . . Any real explanation, or are we just going to wonder forever?
I put it in as RJ instructed, and I know nothing more about it than fandom does, I'm afraid.
So I always wondered? what ever happened to the tinkers' song? Did I miss a resolution to that arch?
The song of growing is not their "Song." The Song is a much more deep and philosophical concept, perhaps unattainable.
Rand does not know The Song. Anything he'd try to teach them, they would not accept as The Song
By specific instruction from RJ, the Tinkers have not found their song as of the end of AMOL
With all the deaths that occurred in aMoL, were there any that hit you harder than any others?
Egwene. After that, Bela. I'd promised she would live, but Harriet decided that I was cheating to keep her alive.
don't you feel some of the character endings were too rushed (fain, everyone Demandred killed)?
That's how things are in war. As for Fain, a piece of me does wish there had been time for more with him.
It was not right to do so. This was what he wanted, and I did my best to fit everything in. I'm pleased with the result
is the woman who told Rand at the end that he was right to bring Moridin, Nakomi?
This is one that I'm not answering, I'm afraid. RJ wanted some things about the ending to remain ambiguous
It's funny to say RAFO when there is no more to read, but what that term means is "This is supposed to be ambiguous."
which scene is the "last scene" that RJ said he wrote first?
Pipe scene
do you think men would choose to be an Aes Sedai over an asha'man?
No men. Neither group would like that. The asha'man are NOT male Aes Sedai. RJ was clear about this in the notes
What did Moiraine ask Aelfinn/Eelfinn?
That is a good question, but not one I'm planning to answer any time soon. (sorry.)
Where was Dobraine during AOL? Left in charge of Cairhein or in the battle somewhere, just unmentioned?
already addressed this. He kept meaning to get around to Dobraine, but never got to it
Since Harriet decided Bela's fate, did you kill off any characters RJ hadn't left notes about? If so, which ones?
Perrin's spirit guide. Note that the "he" in the next sentence does not refer to the same creature.
Did the bonding between R, Nynaeve, Elayne, and Min transfer over to the new body?
Yes, though I don't know how or why
would you like to expand on rj world if Harriet would let you?
No. It is very unlikely. I feel that from here out, writing in the WoT world would be against RJ's wishes.
Did Rand's third question to the Aelfin involve whether/how the DO could be killed?
I think Maria and Harriet are planning to put these in the encyclopedia, but you are right on the third question.
How did Mat's death in Caemlyn break his bond to the Horn? Rand's Balefire should have rendered that event null
This is one that I'm not answering, I'm afraid. RJ wanted some things about the ending to remain ambiguous.
why did Egwene have to die? Very sad
I agree. But if you look at the arc of her character, you might begin to see why it was important.
which character was easiest to write and who was the hardest
Easiest: Perrin. Hardest: Mat. Followed by Avi and Tuon.
I notice that Rand referred to Moridin as "Elan," not "Elan Morin." Why that stylistic choice?
Speaking as Rand does was an intentional insult, as per my understanding via the notes.
Can you shed any light on the raven picture Min saw around Carlinya? Or the axe and hand she saw around Elayne?
One thing that was made clear in the notes is that not everything seen by Min is to have significance for the books. And others, such as Alivia, were to be things that people in world placed much import upon--but were actually minor.
I can almost believe the next Amyrlin could be of the Red, many potentials slain. Do you have some insight
Depends on how long Cadsuane lives. And yes, she does end up next. But the Reds are positioned well
would like to know how much of the last chapter was written by RJ and how much did you do?
I did Perrin and some of the in-between writing with Loial. RJ did Mat, Rand, scene exiting the mountain, and others. There are places where I tweaked bits, per editing, and places where I slipped in things he'd written to my sequences.
What was the most shocking thing you learned when first reading RJ's notes?
Verin
I put it in as RJ instructed, and I know nothing more about it than fandom does, I'm afraid.
So I always wondered? what ever happened to the tinkers' song? Did I miss a resolution to that arch?
The song of growing is not their "Song." The Song is a much more deep and philosophical concept, perhaps unattainable.
Rand does not know The Song. Anything he'd try to teach them, they would not accept as The Song
By specific instruction from RJ, the Tinkers have not found their song as of the end of AMOL
With all the deaths that occurred in aMoL, were there any that hit you harder than any others?
Egwene. After that, Bela. I'd promised she would live, but Harriet decided that I was cheating to keep her alive.
don't you feel some of the character endings were too rushed (fain, everyone Demandred killed)?
That's how things are in war. As for Fain, a piece of me does wish there had been time for more with him.
It was not right to do so. This was what he wanted, and I did my best to fit everything in. I'm pleased with the result
is the woman who told Rand at the end that he was right to bring Moridin, Nakomi?
This is one that I'm not answering, I'm afraid. RJ wanted some things about the ending to remain ambiguous
It's funny to say RAFO when there is no more to read, but what that term means is "This is supposed to be ambiguous."
which scene is the "last scene" that RJ said he wrote first?
Pipe scene
do you think men would choose to be an Aes Sedai over an asha'man?
No men. Neither group would like that. The asha'man are NOT male Aes Sedai. RJ was clear about this in the notes
What did Moiraine ask Aelfinn/Eelfinn?
That is a good question, but not one I'm planning to answer any time soon. (sorry.)
Where was Dobraine during AOL? Left in charge of Cairhein or in the battle somewhere, just unmentioned?
already addressed this. He kept meaning to get around to Dobraine, but never got to it
Since Harriet decided Bela's fate, did you kill off any characters RJ hadn't left notes about? If so, which ones?
Perrin's spirit guide. Note that the "he" in the next sentence does not refer to the same creature.
Did the bonding between R, Nynaeve, Elayne, and Min transfer over to the new body?
Yes, though I don't know how or why
would you like to expand on rj world if Harriet would let you?
No. It is very unlikely. I feel that from here out, writing in the WoT world would be against RJ's wishes.
Did Rand's third question to the Aelfin involve whether/how the DO could be killed?
I think Maria and Harriet are planning to put these in the encyclopedia, but you are right on the third question.
How did Mat's death in Caemlyn break his bond to the Horn? Rand's Balefire should have rendered that event null
This is one that I'm not answering, I'm afraid. RJ wanted some things about the ending to remain ambiguous.
why did Egwene have to die? Very sad
I agree. But if you look at the arc of her character, you might begin to see why it was important.
which character was easiest to write and who was the hardest
Easiest: Perrin. Hardest: Mat. Followed by Avi and Tuon.
I notice that Rand referred to Moridin as "Elan," not "Elan Morin." Why that stylistic choice?
Speaking as Rand does was an intentional insult, as per my understanding via the notes.
Can you shed any light on the raven picture Min saw around Carlinya? Or the axe and hand she saw around Elayne?
One thing that was made clear in the notes is that not everything seen by Min is to have significance for the books. And others, such as Alivia, were to be things that people in world placed much import upon--but were actually minor.
I can almost believe the next Amyrlin could be of the Red, many potentials slain. Do you have some insight
Depends on how long Cadsuane lives. And yes, she does end up next. But the Reds are positioned well
would like to know how much of the last chapter was written by RJ and how much did you do?
I did Perrin and some of the in-between writing with Loial. RJ did Mat, Rand, scene exiting the mountain, and others. There are places where I tweaked bits, per editing, and places where I slipped in things he'd written to my sequences.
What was the most shocking thing you learned when first reading RJ's notes?
Verin
Grimmlokk
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 12,190
- 132
I was fine with
Everything else I get the impression that Sanderson didn't love a lot of the decisions that were made for him. Seems like he's kind of happy to be done with this.
Bela dying. She turned in to Secretariat for awhile and saved the day enough(Bet she's a great archer too).
Everything else I get the impression that Sanderson didn't love a lot of the decisions that were made for him. Seems like he's kind of happy to be done with this.
Well i think sanderson the machine that he is probably wanted to expand upon everything jordan left. I truly think honoring the wishes of RJ would have been hard for any writer who loved the series, there were so many loose ends and I think after 14 books of build up to the last battle, we deserve half of one for the endings. It seemed as though people had to die because well this is the last goddamn book etc.
Arative
Vyemm Raider
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Well he does have his own 37 book series to write but I imagine writing in someone else's universe is rather stifling creatively. I would hope though that another author might eventually take up the world