When is constructive criticism appropriate?

iannis

iannis

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You know guys, you're really overthinking this.

If HR is too timid to do anything to the woman they're gonna be too timid to do anything to you either. She's not everyone's best buddy... the overseers are fucking TIMID. Nobody is saying you punch her in the eye and say "I dun told you once, don't make me say it again!"

If you don't know how to make a remark both pointed (in person) and innocent (on paper) then it's probably best to keep posting on message boards I guess.
 
Alkorin

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If she's that well connected, and not stupid, she'll use anything he says toward her as part of her game. So, no, not overthinking -- just saying, be cautious, she's clearly already manipulative and sometimes, people like that get off playing around with other peoples' jobs.

Sometimes, it's all about who you know and how badly they can bend someone over for you.
 
BrutulTM

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You can only receive constructive criticism from someone that you respect/trust. If you don't have a real relationship with her and you're not in a position of authority over her, she's probably just going to get defensive and the end result is going to be her going "fuck that guy" and continuing with business as usual. All you can really do is make it known to her supervisor and if he's not willing to do anything then it's probably not going to change. You confronting her, especially in front of other people, will just make things uncomfortable at work for you and maybe lead to people complaining to your supervisor if others don't agree with you or if she is more popular around work than you are. Not worth it.
 
Phazael

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Iannis_sl said:
You know guys, you're really overthinking this.

If HR is too timid to do anything to the woman they're gonna be too timid to do anything to you either. She's not everyone's best buddy... the overseers are fucking TIMID. Nobody is saying you punch her in the eye and say "I dun told you once, don't make me say it again!"

If you don't know how to make a remark both pointed (in person) and innocent (on paper) then it's probably best to keep posting on message boards I guess.
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This assumes that she, in a fit of crazy, has not played the vagina card at some point to make HR back down in the past. The best option, in a normal environment, is to go over her head and if your superiors won't do shit, then you are fucked. Of course, if you can make the argument that it is detrimentally affecting patient care, you might get a lot more traction, but thats a hard case to make objectively. There are a couple other options that I used in this situation back in my more evil days.

1) Throw someone under the bus. Basically, find an easily manipulated coworker that you absolutely do not give a shit about who you can steer into direct confrontation with said person and fight the battle for you. This is not going to make you any friends, but it will get the job done if your job has enough idiots working at it.

2) Covert passive agressive warfare. Lots of ways to do this, but my favorite when a friend of mine had a co worker like yours he spent a whole fucking week doing the exact same thing back to the dude, even taking it to the point of staying after his shift or during a day off to annoy the fuck out of the guy. Eventually he got the hint and stopped bothering anyone. That takes some commitment and a crazy female employee might play the vagina card and claim you are stalking her, though.

Unfortunately, because she is female and has gotten away with this for a long time, you most likely are going to have to eat this shit sandwitch.
 
Cybsled

Cybsled

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You mentioned she has delayed patient care by doing this, right?

Honestly the most effective action will be to have patients complain about it. Patients/customers have a better chance of jumping up the ladder of corporate hierarchy with their complaints, whereas employees have to follow certain guidelines and report to their direct manager typically (no going over someone's head). If someone 1 or 2 levels above her direct supervisor's head gets wind of this because of a customer/patient complaint, they come down on the supervisor's head, who in turn comes down on her.
 
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cosmic_cs_sl

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The patients complain about it to the nurses. Plus, in a hospital, the patients don't always know what's going on. They'd only complain about pain, lol.

Anyway, this woman won't report me to my director, and people who found out what happened are supportive of me.
 
chaos

chaos

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cosmic_cs_sl said:
The patients complain about it to the nurses. Plus, in a hospital, the patients don't always know what's going on. They'd only complain about pain, lol.

Anyway, this woman won't report me to my director, and people who found out what happened are supportive of me.
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I would be careful with that. For whatever reason that may fly in that environment, but in literally every professional environment I have been in this whole situation would be very bad for you. If you end up moving on and think you can continue that kind of behavior, you may be in for a shock.
 
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cosmic_cs_sl

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chaos_sl said:
I would be careful with that. For whatever reason that may fly in that environment, but in literally every professional environment I have been in this whole situation would be very bad for you. If you end up moving on and think you can continue that kind of behavior, you may be in for a shock.
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You may have a bad impression of me from previous threads, lol. I don't foresee any consequences for the action I mentioned here, and I likely won't be doing it in the same way in the future. But thank you, I'll keep your advice in mind.
 
McCheese

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About 20 years ago my aunt used to bitch at a guy who started working in her department (they were coworkers, she wasn't his superior) about being lazy, talking too much, etc.

Fast forward to this year and he's now her boss and her work environment has become so unbearable that she's pretty much being forced out with an early retirement.

Moral of the story? Be careful who you give "constructive criticism" to. And my aunt is a bitch.
 
chaos

chaos

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cosmic_cs_sl said:
You may have a bad impression of me from previous threads, lol. I don't foresee any consequences for the action I mentioned here, and I likely won't be doing it in the same way in the future. But thank you, I'll keep your advice in mind.
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No, I really don't, we disagreed over something or other from another thread but I don't even remember what that was. I'm just trying to reiterate that in pretty much every professional environment I have been in, this kind of confrontation is a big deal. And I know from experience how alien it can feel going from something less formal to a more professional environment, how out of place a person can feel and the mistakes they can make.
 
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chilansl

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Most professionals with whom I have dealt prefer having any issues brought up face to face, without the need for dealing with HR.
I had one guy who was not my supervisor, but a cool guy high up in the company, who often talked about his wild exploits around everyone. I dragged him aside one day, told him he could let it all fly in my area (since everyone in my department thought it was fun stuff), but that same talk might get him in big trouble pretty much everywhere else in the company.
He did that for a month and then opened up somewhere else and he and the company decided to part ways.

But each person is different. Some people you just will not reach and it is a waste of your time and theirs to even try. Others, a direct approach will work well. Others still might require a soft sell type approach, talking about the issue without pointing fingers, or other ways to breach the subject in a subtle manner, e.g. "I find myself talking too much about my hit-and-miss colon."
 
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