Why all the nerd rage against Vanguard

Heh, to be honest, that"s another thing I"m worried about. I"d hate to be playing, and there are less and less people every week.

Gah, that would suck.

Nino said:

Yep.

You do the best you can with what you have and try and come up with creative ways to bridge the gap. Money can provide choices and alternatives to problems, but it does not guarantee success.

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And yet Brad tends to fall back to the "WoW had twice as much budget" excuse when rationalizing Vanguard"s incompleteness. "We mismanaged our time, resources, and direction" would be more accurate, no? I don"t expect you to answer that, but it"s not exactly a secret.

That said, I"m glad very thankful for your straight-forwardness, Nino; you seem to actually know what"s going on with the game you"re developing and don"t try to sugarcoat anything.

Laerazi said:

And yet Brad tends to fall back to the "WoW had twice as much budget" excuse when rationalizing Vanguard"s incompleteness. "We mismanaged our time, resources, and direction" would be more accurate, no? I don"t expect you to answer that, but it"s not exactly a secret.

That said, I"m glad very thankful for your straight-forwardness, Nino; you seem to actually know what"s going on with the game you"re developing and don"t try to sugarcoat anything.

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ofcourse it fucking matters, ninos just not making excuses

I"m sorry, but there is an INSANE difference between 30 and 80 million. Not to mention the unlimited time frame. I think BRad and Nino have both been fairly straight forward on here about Vanguard. And i"m sorry, but I have yet to see a post from a Vanguard developer implying anything aside from discontent with SOE at this point. I see quite a bit of "thats not us" when it comes to things from Sigil staff. I am not trying to say that they hate SOE or anything, but honestly it seems to me that the relationship between the two companies is less than ideal for Sigil.

A large portion of WoW"s budget was likely allocated to advertising and localization across the world. They didn"t spend 80 million just on coding, and Sigil hasn"t spent a fraction on advertising that Blizzard did. Plus there is no overseas massive campaign either.

That said, yes 80 vs. 30 is pretty huge, but compare VG to every other MMO and it still pales in comparison to some of them that spent far less.

Twobit Whore said:

I believe he is talking about pulling a mob, getting some adds, knowing you can"t win and trying to flee. Mount does no good here unless they very recently made it so you can cast your mount in combat.

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Good points - pulling is challenging in VG, and I"m no stranger to getting owned by multiple heroic adds when I"m soloing heroic content.

I guess my response is I"m usually able to pull singles with proximity pulls rather than Hail Mary nukes. When I get an add, or when I pull more than I can handle, I usually just use sprint and run them off. I can avoid most adds by playing in 3rd person with the largest camera distance possible, and move my fight when I see possible adds incoming.

But I admit that several times a day, I can get 4 or more mobs on me at the same time, and then become overwhelmed and die. But I look at this as the high risk cost of soloing heroic content - and I just expect to get owned and die sometimes when I solo 3 dots. The higher exp and better loot I get offsets that penalty, but to me, the penalty is still manageable and worth my time. If I could solo risk free and always get away, I guess I would think the game was too easy and wasn"t fun.

My point being, at the end of every day I"ve usually earned great exp, and have over 10 gold at level 32 just from soloing. That"s a lot to someone my level.

Twobit Whore said:

.... and it still pales in comparison to some of them that spent far less.

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You simply dont know what youre taking about. There is a shit ton of content in VG. All hand made and unique, from what little I saw of it.

So it might be a bggy mess, but there is alot of it. Im betting even the high players, lv 40+ have not seen even 1/3 of this game.

Mkopec1 said:

You simply dont know what youre taking about. There is a shit ton of content in VG. All hand made and unique, from what little I saw of it.

So it might be a bggy mess, but there is alot of it. Im betting even the high players, lv 40+ have not seen even 1/3 of this game.

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Now if they could only get rid of the lag, and put some lore, etc, in, they"d be set.

Sort of.

there is a ton of content...or maybe a better wording would be potential content

they simply haven"t fleshed all areas out yet with quests, proper npcs, etc...if you"re 40+ this will be painfully evident, but before that it isn"t too bad

Is Ahgram fully populated yet? Honestly curious; it only had a few NPCs in it a few days pre-Release. Curious how it has progressed. Does it feel like a big city now like EQ2"s Freeport or Qeynos (or even a smaller EQ1 hometown).

I am able to sprint away from most encounters unless they go horribly wrong. It seems like people are unhappy with risk here??

Mkopec1 said:

You simply dont know what youre taking about. There is a shit ton of content in VG. All hand made and unique, from what little I saw of it.

So it might be a bggy mess, but there is alot of it. Im betting even the high players, lv 40+ have not seen even 1/3 of this game.

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It"s cool to have a lot of "unseen" content, but if the hooks aren"t there, if you can"t retain/gain players to see that content, no one will ever see it and it"s effectively lost...

That"s mismanagement.

maybe a better wording would be potential content

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I wouldn"t go near the word "potential." That"s like telling customers that buying your game is a risky proposition. Itcould[have more content before you are bored with, or itcouldhave more content after you are bored with it.

You may get your money"s worth, you may not (and "get bent" is the PC game return policy.)

One thing I"ve been really disappointed with with is the removal of Fellowships feature from retail. I"ve got a few friends who play the game at odd time, each one having different levels of dedication they can give to gaining levels/xp. When one guy was 8th, the other two were 10th and 15th already. There has to be a way to add Fellowships back in and not worry about "powerleveling" because the lack of this feature as promised is going to cost them three subscriptions soon. Maybe require a one-month duration to the Fellowship.

We"re all about to cancel because of the frustration with this subject.

Nimdale said:

One thing I"ve been really disappointed with with is the removal of Fellowships feature from retail. I"ve got a few friends who play the game at odd time, each one having different levels of dedication they can give to gaining levels/xp. When one guy was 8th, the other two were 10th and 15th already. There has to be a way to add Fellowships back in and not worry about "powerleveling" because the lack of this feature as promised is going to cost them three subscriptions soon. Maybe require a one-month duration to the Fellowship.

We"re all about to cancel because of the frustration with this subject.

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Any special reason to fag up 2 threads rather than one with some crying about fellowships? Theres a 3rd VG thread you missed btw

1. No one cares.
2. No one cares the second time either.

teneran said:

. . .
You really should just play WoW. And I don"t mean that as a put down on WoW but that"s the type of game you want, where the only reason you group is instances or raids, and otherwise its all solo friendly and very casual.

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8.5 million people compared to 150k are doing just that heheh. But seriously, if you make a group dependent game you have to give the "group" sufficient support. You have to make it not a quest to find groups but somehting that is absolutely easy to do. That, unfortunately, is the trick. But hey pay me 30-40 million and I"ll try to figure it out ;p

Didn"t Brad say a few pages back (or on another thread) that they"re going to put the fellowship system back in?

Yeah, I believe they"re working on a way to implement them without any exploits.

Well, I suppose it"s good that they"re working on the game.

Hopefully the subscriptions can keep the game going long enough for it to become solid.

Twobit Whore said:

That said, yes 80 vs. 30 is pretty huge, but compare VG to every other MMO and it still pales in comparison to some of them that spent far less.

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It"s also much more ambitious. Size, scope, features are all far beyond WoW at release and possibly even after WoWs expansion.

Sigils problem was over reaching, in my opinion. They tried to do too much, or didnt settle for less than they wanted to do given the budget and time they had. I"d also factor in some mismanagement and inefficiency sure, but I dont think you"d find a project on earth that didnt have that to some degree.

I hope they"re not working on an expansion right now... I mean, they have a lot of land, etc, to cover, still.