Why all the nerd rage against Vanguard
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Cuppycake_foh
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Some people on these forums take games VERY seriously. Particularly those who are in the game dev field or want to be. Its not about fun, its about how the particular game up for discussion directly impacts their lives, other games, the industry, and the FUTURE OF MMO SALVATION!! Its not all about fun, its all about GLORY and PERSEVERANCE!kcxiv said:Yeah, i kinda thought thats what the point of a game is. To have fun.
Yeah, i can tell some folks take it a bit to seriously.Cuppycake said:Some people on these forums take games VERY seriously. Particularly those who are in the game dev field or want to be. Its not about fun, its about how the particular game up for discussion directly impacts their lives, other games, the industry, and the FUTURE OF MMO SALVATION!! Its not all about fun, its all about GLORY and PERSEVERANCE!
I know VG has problems and that shit needs to be fixed. I am NOT blind to that shit. I am far from a Vanboi, but i do really enjoy the game. I think it has a solid foundation and when everything "finally" gets fixed. Its going to be a kick ass game. I am just happy, that i have not ran into problems that others have.
Sometimes, i dont even know why Brad or any Dev posts on here. Whenver any game first comes out it gets freaking hammered by people. Some more then others.
Ah.kcxiv said:I know VG has problems and that shit needs to be fixed. I am NOT blind to that shit. I am far from a Vanboi, but i do really enjoy the game. I think it has a solid foundation andwheneverything "finally" gets fixed. Its going to be a kick ass game. I am just happy, that i have not ran into problems that others have.
I"ve spotted our major disagreement. You say "when", I say "if". Did you actually play Everquest, by the way?
Also: That LOTRO pic of the rolling hills looks like the countryside to the north of my town...which is a good thing, as The Shires (etc) were pretty much supposed to be the Home Counties of England.
Yes i played EQ, still have a 75 necro with 1350 aa"s thats active. I have killed up until Deathknell, then i finally quit.Itzena said:Ah.
I"ve spotted our major disagreement. You say "when", I say "if". Did you actually play Everquest, by the way?
Also: That LOTRO pic of the rolling hills looks like the countryside to the north of my town...which is a good thing, as The Shires (etc) were pretty much supposed to be the Home Counties of England.
*edit* i actually raided 2days ago. The guild Pm"ed me on aim and asked if i could help with Mayong cuase they needed another necro bane. Mayong event has the best music ever.
What game is that? Is that LOTRO?Twobit Whore said:Compared to something like this, at maximum settings with all the bells and whistles on with AA + AF enabled, shadows, etc. etc. etc. I just don"t see how the graphics justify the demands.
Oh and this is on a machine identical to Bog"s. A "4 year old heap" or whatever it was called by someone. AMD 3500+ 6800GT 1GB ram.
I think vanguard is a good game but its not for everyone including me. I was hopeing it was going to be more like Eq then it turned out to be.
My first MMO was EQ back when it launched, and I have yet to find that type of world or experience again. I"ve just given up tryinng to find another game like that.
I really liked the amount of freedom EQ gave us. Where you could do anything you pretty much wanted to ,like attacking guards and vendors etc,,
It wasn"t tradeskill heavy either ( im not big fan of tradeskill games). It also let you play evil races and characters without the stipulation that you had to be evil.
I.E you could group with anyone you wanted to and it was up to the player himself to roleplay evil/good. The original character models had so much life.
I loved the leveling curve as well. In EQ you start off really week and rise to power after days of gameplay. In most of the new MMO"s youre powerful at the start ,and just retain that same amount of power throughout the game.
I acutely dig zones, seemless worlds seem to big and barren to me. Individual zones can be more personailzed,and have a bigger playerbase to play inside of them. I"m surprised noones tried to make a direct copy of EQ,but it never ended up happening...
Maybe when EQ is buried and dead, Sony will release a dev kit much like the diku mud system where people can design there own games based off the EQ assests and engine.
I have friends that love Vangaurd/WoW tho, so they must be doing something right. I guess I"m just outdated
My first MMO was EQ back when it launched, and I have yet to find that type of world or experience again. I"ve just given up tryinng to find another game like that.
I really liked the amount of freedom EQ gave us. Where you could do anything you pretty much wanted to ,like attacking guards and vendors etc,,
It wasn"t tradeskill heavy either ( im not big fan of tradeskill games). It also let you play evil races and characters without the stipulation that you had to be evil.
I.E you could group with anyone you wanted to and it was up to the player himself to roleplay evil/good. The original character models had so much life.
I loved the leveling curve as well. In EQ you start off really week and rise to power after days of gameplay. In most of the new MMO"s youre powerful at the start ,and just retain that same amount of power throughout the game.
I acutely dig zones, seemless worlds seem to big and barren to me. Individual zones can be more personailzed,and have a bigger playerbase to play inside of them. I"m surprised noones tried to make a direct copy of EQ,but it never ended up happening...
Maybe when EQ is buried and dead, Sony will release a dev kit much like the diku mud system where people can design there own games based off the EQ assests and engine.
I have friends that love Vangaurd/WoW tho, so they must be doing something right. I guess I"m just outdated
They really cannot be compared. And even if they could, Vanguard would be at a serious disadvantage. Mainly because LoTRo is based on a high profile, extremely well known IP, and set in a familiar world of characters and locations true to Tolkiens works. Vanguard can make no such claim.Nairbog said:How about we start comparing things like the amount of unique dungeons/cities/environments in each? Classes? How about comparing the size and scale of each game? As far as I know, none of LoTRO"s cities come close to comparing to New Targonor/Pankhor Zhi/Aghram/Caial Brael/Mekalia etc. I would also be surprised if LoTRO"s dungeons were more impressive than Vanguard"s in terms of scope/mob variety/nameds etc. Since I"m not one to obsess over the artwork like many of you do, I value variety and "epicness" more.
Remember all those fortellings of WoW doing well because of its huge following of Warcraft players? Expect something along the same lines to happen here. Now, i"m making no claims that LoTRo will experience WoW type sub numbers, but you can"t compare quantity to quality. Given the fact that LoTR is an extremely well known IP, it certainly has the potential to garner WoW type success. LoTRo will most likely be played by LoTR enthusiasts. And I can promise you this much:
That following dwarfs Vanguards by leaps and bounds.
You mean like SWG?Rayne said:Mainly because LoTRo is based on a high profile, extremely well known IP, and set in a familiar world of characters and locations .
Morderick_foh
shitlord
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Yeah, like playing EQ1 for a few hours kiling bats around freeport gave you a good idea of what it was like later on?Lyenae said:As for reviewers not able to really review an MMO, that"s more or less bullshit. Don"t fucking kid yourself.In a few hours you can get a spot on idea as to whether an MMO is worth playing. No amount of secret/special content at higher levels will radically change what a game should be reviewed at
So playing VG for a few hours gives you how awesome the dungeons are?
You"re kidding yourselves if you think that such reviews mean any shit.
Everyone has a different opinion of what they like. Some like VG (me) and some just hate it (you). Same deal with reviewers. A reviewer might like it and another hate it. What does it matter at all?
Anyone who bases their opinion on reviews (movies, music, games, etc) is a moron.
And for the "this is a nobody" reviewer. I just posted a small part of the list. There are "somebodies" on either end of the ratings. I was just pointing out that is was pointless to point at a 69% rating when some gave 30% and others 80%. Just confirms what I said. some guys likes it, some other hates it. you chose to see the 30% because you hate it and think it matters.
Morderick_foh
shitlord
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The Bog said:People just lovedthis review.
This review just proves my point further and tells me how you played the game.. just like the reviewer.. running around with a level 3 char killing snakes and bats outdoors and saying: this game has no content.From the tiny review linked above:
Soon enough you realise that Vanguard"s "exploration" actually means a succession of 15-minute jaunts across endless vistas of angry flora and fauna.
Dude, this game is filed with content. There are TONS of dungeons and most of them are 2-3x bigger than UpperGuk/LowerGuk combined. Thereis so much to do in this game that I find I level too fast without even trying and miss most of it, without even going to another continent (I"m on Thestra).
Useless reviews by someone who obviously has played the game for 30 mins and has no clue about what is in Vanguard make me laugh even harder at those who actually value it (ie: you).
A game review isn"t supposed to give you a complete dissection of the entire game; it"s supposed to give you an idea of what to expect if you buy the game. If I was to write a review about WoW, would it make sense to talk on and on about BWL and Naxx, or talk about my experience for the first ten levels of the game?Morderick said:Yeah, like playing EQ1 for a few hours kiling bats around freeport gave you a good idea of what it was like later on?
So playing VG for a few hours gives you how awesome the dungeons are?
You"re kidding yourselves if you think that such reviews mean any shit.
The people who ENJOYED EQ had no problem killing bats for a few hours. I actually enjoyed the first levels of EQ with the exception of being a blind human at night in Commonlands and being eaten by a griffon. If that part of the game had sucked balls, I probably would have uninstalled the game and never bothered with it.
If you honestly believe a game can be successful by having a shitty opening experience for new players, I hope you never find yourself in the dev seat.
And Turbine instead... hah.Rayne said:Yeah, but "without" SOE and LucasArts
RunningDog_foh
shitlord
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One thing that Turbine have always been good at is the graphics (yes, I"m including Asheron"s Call 1, where the visuals were limited because they designed the graphics engine before 3d hardware went mainstream. Considering all the 3d stuff was done in software they did a good job).Lonin said:If Vanguard were in prison, it would be the bitch and LOTRO would be a big black guy named Bubba.
You can see the LotR shots are an evolution of the engine they developed for AC 2. That game had some very pretty areas too, but the toolset they used to create the world had lots of nasty glitches with scenery placement. Ironically enough AC2 was released far too early as well, but at least Turbine learned from that mistake and held LotR back from it"s original release date when they saw the competition of WoW.
That was pretty much my throughts up to a couple of months ago, but most of the complaints about LOTRO seem to be more along the lines of "It doesn"t bring much innovation to the table" and "We"ve seen this design before" instead of "This is fucking buggy incomplete shit".r.gun said:And Turbine instead... hah.
So...unoriginal-but-solid DikuMUD design + low(er) system specs + brand name = ???
I think SWG did a stellar job of proving that a solid IP does nothing but give you a foot in the door. From that point you have to actually deliver. If SOE/LA had put together a really solid team of devs that produced a fun game, they would easily have millions of subscribers. Its nothing short of amazing how colossal of a flop it became.r.gun said:And Turbine instead... hah.
Morderick_foh
shitlord
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I am sorry but if the same reviewer were to rate all such games EQ1, etc. He would have ran outdoors and saw the exact same thing. Grass and snakes for 15 mins. He wouldn"t have seen the dungeons and the good part.kohl said:A game review isn"t supposed to give you a complete dissection of the entire game; it"s supposed to give you an idea of what to expect if you buy the game.
So those 1 page "there is no content" reviews don"t mean shit and don"t review shit.
Well.. I actually ENJOYED VG and killed bats, did some questing, grouped in a low level dungeon and got eaten by a Named gnoll wandering around my area with 2 guards. What"s the difference? Oh yeah, better graphics, better sound, better UI for starters if the gameplay is at least the same.kohl said:The people who ENJOYED EQ had no problem killing bats for a few hours. I actually enjoyed the first levels of EQ with the exception of being a blind human at night in Commonlands and being eaten by a griffon. If that part of the game had sucked balls, I probably would have uninstalled the game and never bothered with it.
A shitty opening experience.. ok let"s compare a bit.kohl said:If you honestly believe a game can be successful by having a shitty opening experience for new players, I hope you never find yourself in the dev seat.
WOW: You are #2148 in the queue, please come back in 2 hours.
VG: Nice.. the servers are really good for a launch of this magnitude.
WOW: OK, I"m a level 1 char with 2 skills. I see this tower and an NPC with a thingy on its head. I talk to him, ok, kill 10 wolves. This game looks like barney/teletubbies, wtf.
VG: OK, I"m a level 1 char with 2 skills. I see this village I"m in and an NPC with a thingy on its head. I talk to him, ok, kill 10 cats. The graphics are awesome, I can see for miles.
WOW: Ding! leveled! OK new skills. Run around, more NPCs with thingies on their heads. More quests, some more original, most fed-ex, some sending me to other places.
VG: Ding! leveled! OK, new skills. Run around, more NPCs with thingies on their heads. More quests, some more original, most fed-ex, some sending me to other places.
How can you review a game in 30 mins like this and give one 92% and the other 30% ROFLMAO yeah, sure..
My starting experience in VG has been very good. I started in Halgarad, had some fun quests to do to get me to know the game (gather wolf pups, kill some mobs, deliver items, dwelve into a small cave filled with cool mist, got some lore on barbarians). Then it guided me to the bigger city where I learned diplomacy and crafting. There was a ton of exciting quests and I really got the sense that the world was living and they were assieged by the gnolls. I started my first real big dungeon at level 8 and never looked back since.
Seriously... the sheer amounts of things to do. Heroes" Vault, Lyceum, Hilsbury, Trengal Keep.. there"s like 80 dungeons in this game with a LOT of them premieres.
There is no adventuring grind in this game. If you find there is, you"re killing bats outdoors without purpose and not following the quests and storyline or grouping.
Kaffis_foh
shitlord
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Scientifically inaccurate. The *best* human eyes top out at about 40fps.Miele said:In conclusion, 20 fps is not fine, not for everyone at least. The human eye on average stops noticing differences in values that range from 80 up to 120 fps depending on the person.
What you"re describing is the subconscious awareness that there"s a lack of motion blur, or the blur is inadequately generated. Increasing the number of frames displayed during one "exposure" of the eye (so that each frame the eye sends to your brain is composed of two or three video frames) simulates blur, in the same way as using a slow shutter speed to photograph fast movement will result in blurred photographs.
You"re also wrong -- motion blur could be simulated, tech-wise. However, shader code is at a premium, and being devoted to other things at this time in game programming. As DX10 dictates more powerful shader pipelines and longer instruction lengths, and PCI Express delivers greater CPU->GPU bandwidth this will be more feasible to program in real-time game rendering.
Mkopec1_foh
shitlord
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And lets not forget the bland classes, the bland, and from wheat I heard, clunky gameplay 1/16 of the Tolkien world....Itzena said:That was pretty much my throughts up to a couple of months ago, but most of the complaints about LOTRO seem to be more along the lines of "It doesn"t bring much innovation to the table" and "We"ve seen this design before" instead of "This is fucking buggy incomplete shit".
So...unoriginal-but-solid DikuMUD design + low(er) system specs + brand name = ???
But hey, LOTR is the shinzit because its Turbine not SOE and Brad, amirite? and were all on the hate SOE and Sigil trip around here....
Lets not forget the falures of Turbine past, because they have more falures under their belts than any other mmo maker except maybe NC soft. Plenty of opportunity, 2 well known IP and still no good game...
But...but the GRAPHICS ARE AWESOME!!!!1
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