Why all the nerd rage against Vanguard

rinthea_foh

shitlord
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Kylax said:
Pointing out several ongoing nerfs that didn"t get fixed the first time around because VG was "ready for release" dosen"t give the guy a right to speak his mind on a board where people discuss the ongoing changes of many mmorpgs?

Does surviving these nerfs make you that much more of a hardcore player to Vanguard?

Shut the fuck up.
I suppose it does. I mean seriously what do people expect? A half finished game, classes unbalanced...

People that whine about nerfs shit me. Because anyone with half neuron would realize they were coming. Much like if I enter a boxing match with Mike Tyson, I could expect to get punched in the head (or have my ears reworked). See what I"m getting at? Its painstakingly obvious it was going to happen.

Lets imagine your WoW rogue, can also heal as good as a priest. Would you expect nerfs here? Or would you cry when they came and quit the game?

I play a rogue on VG and you know what, they were shit at release. Now, they"re less shit. I expected it, it was fucking obvious. Same as with the obvious nerfs to over powered classes.

The thing is, when some of your brains were being made and some stuff didnt happen that was supposed to, it left you unable to be objective and consider 2 sides of teh coin. Not every criticism of VG is valid. You jumped on the wrong one again, better luck next time.
 

woqqqa_foh

shitlord
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Twobit Whore said:
That may work on some official forums or even Silky Venom or whatever, but not here. Hell, I don"t think tad10 should have even been banned until he went off the last couple of days begging for it. He tried to be a martyr and bring several others down with him, but it just backfired on him.p
Actually, SV almost never bans anyone. You"re pretty much free to say what you like there, which pisses off the site"s resident Vanbois to no end. I"m fairly sure it"s also why Brad stays away...they"d tear him a new one in about 10 seconds flat. I"ll bet he wishes he"d gone for the official forums now, at least he could ban people then.
 

Bongk_foh

shitlord
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rinthea said:
The thing is, when some of your brains were being made and some stuff didnt happen that was supposed to, it left you unable to be objective and consider 2 sides of teh coin. Not every criticism of VG is valid. You jumped on the wrong one again, better luck next time.
Yes obviously the problem is me and not VG, it is the best game ever made, right?

As you said there are two sides to the coin yourself, but you fail to see anything but your side.
 

Kylax_foh

shitlord
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rinthea said:
I suppose it does. I mean seriously what do people expect? A half finished game, classes unbalanced...

People that whine about nerfs shit me. Because anyone with half neuron would realize they were coming. Much like if I enter a boxing match with Mike Tyson, I could expect to get punched in the head (or have my ears reworked). See what I"m getting at? Its painstakingly obvious it was going to happen.

Lets imagine your WoW rogue, can also heal as good as a priest. Would you expect nerfs here? Or would you cry when they came and quit the game?

I play a rogue on VG and you know what, they were shit at release. Now, they"re less shit. I expected it, it was fucking obvious. Same as with the obvious nerfs to over powered classes.

The thing is, when some of your brains were being made and some stuff didnt happen that was supposed to, it left you unable to be objective and consider 2 sides of teh coin. Not every criticism of VG is valid. You jumped on the wrong one again, better luck next time.
My statements were referring to how nerfs would change one day and then completely turned around the next day. Someone said it best when they said people are paying for another Beta at this point. Why was this stuff not addressed in beta. It really has to makes you wonder.

Go ahead and keep playing that rogue of yours while they continue to make drastic gameplay changes every week. I am sure by the time everything in Vanguard is worked out you will have a huge player base and your veritable pick of classes to fulfill your hashed out fantasy world.
 

Guzrog_foh

shitlord
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I"m still playing albeit less lately heres my 2 nerd rage issue"s towards VG.

1. Population
2. Game optimization/Engine

I don"t have a 4 year old PC. I have the following PC, which isn"t the best but its not too far off...

AMD Athlon 64 x2 (Dual Core) 5200+ (@2.9ghz) so 5800 essentially
**Running the AMD dual core optimization software for WinXP by AMD
Thermatake Big Volcano CPU fan (pointing out cooling is not an issue)
4GB Corsair XMS ddr 800 RAM (running xp32 so only getting 3gb)
Soundblaster XFI Xtreme Music
BFG 8800 GTX OC 768MB
ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe NF570SLI AM2 Mobo
Hitachi 250GB Serial ATA II 7200RPM HDD w/8MB Buffer
Thermaltake Armorer Case


I work in IT (neat) etc. so the OS is tweaked and not loaded with any virus or spyware, and I defrag nightly with Diskkeeper Professional. Hell the HDD was fully formatted when I built the PC last month.

In the wilderness running along staring at the scenery.... 55-80 FPS is no problem as Xregg displays. (Chunking is still there and annoying.)

Guess what happens in a solid group? 10-18 FPS on average, 20-24 MAYBE if i"m in an enclosed room, and of course it fluctuates between 10-24 if it does go up that high. I can play on this, the FPS part doesn"t bother me its the fact that I have a system arguably better than Brad"s system listed, and theres no fucking way the game is "amazingly smooth as a baby"s ass" on the highest quality settings, thats complete bullshit. The results i"m talking about are with settings on BALANCED, 90k clip plane in groups, and shadows on about 25%, 1680x1050 resolution.

IMO, the game should flat out run at least 15-20 FPS higher on my particular PC given the actual graphics and the environment results you are actually getting in game. Lets not get into the fact that antialiasing and anios filtering causes massive issues and fucks up the game completely. I"ve also tested using the nvidia 8800 drivers and the guru3d.com ones. Results aren"t much different in Vanguard.

On the flip side and while someone will be quick to point out the engine and art are completely different... I pull 120-270 FPS in WOW, 180-190 or so being the average (not in enclosed areas.) Everything maxed out in 1680x1050, hell I wish the game had more sliders!

So theres my nerd rage, no one plays the game and even with an amazing PC it doesn"t run near as well as Brad, or some here would lead you to believe. Yes I"m still subscribed and playing a bit so don"t attempt to use that card.
 

Samflam_foh

shitlord
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Twobit Whore said:
Of course, Brad had his NDA to hide behind then, so he could spin freely without anyone being able to see through it.
Yes 2bit, you possess a gift that only you and a select few of your peers share.

I"m absolutely shocked VG is in such a state. I honestly believed it would be the greatest game - nay - the greatest creation in the history of the world. We all owe you a great deal.
I"m being sarcastic.
 

Kylax_foh

shitlord
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Guzrog,

What type of character do you play and why did you choose that character for Vanguard? Do you have any buddies that you play with on a constant basis? What is the one thing or change at this point in your VG career that would make you stop playing all together?

I ask these because it sounds like you are an honest to goodness mmorpg player that"s trying something new and not trying to put a spin on things.
 

rinthea_foh

shitlord
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Bongk said:
Yes obviously the problem is me and not VG, it is the best game ever made, right?

As you said there are two sides to the coin yourself, but you fail to see anything but your side.
No, I can see the other side. Like the stuff that Guzrog just said for example I agree with. Andmany, manyother critisms I"ve agreed with.
What you quoted there wasnt in regards to you anyway.
I just said your a whinny bitch who only likes to play the overpowered flavour of the month classes. You should expect them to change (they do in all games) and you wont need to slit your wrists when it inevitably happens.
 

Gnome Eater_foh

shitlord
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rinthea said:
N
I just said your a whinny bitch who only likes to play the overpowered flavour of the month classes. You should expect them to change (they do in all games) and you wont need to slit your wrists when it inevitably happens.
Haha truth. I always wonder how people who happen to play insanely overpowered classes can have the cognitive dissonance to not see how overpowered they are - see monks during luclin, knights during PoP, necromancers in early EQ, fury warriors during Naxx, etc..

If you are overpowered, face up to it, bask in the OP, but don"t cry when the nerf bat hits you in the teeth.
 

Hachima

Molten Core Raider
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Kaxmax said:
How"s this for nerd rage:

Vanguard Crafters :: View topic - Kojan: Thow us a bone

All you people who ground out Kojani faction....so sorry, thanks for playing.
Yeah it"s pretty sad to see how clueless that dev is

Kojan is a starting area only. It is not a fully functional continent like Thestra and Qalia. There is no capitol of Kojan.

Content on Kojan really ends around 15-20. You can kinda stretch it to 25, but we really want you to leave by the time you're 20.
You can almost level 1-50 on the continent if you really wanted to, it would be the most effective or fun path but there is content thre. Over 20 lvl 40+ named on Ceros island and heroic quests too. No content after 20? Someone needs to clue this guy in.

There are also 3 prestige factions on this continent. Are all those worthless too? Is a dev going to come tell us, well sucks to be you but we never intended people to raise any of those that high.
 

Bongk_foh

shitlord
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rinthea said:
No, I can see the other side. Like the stuff that Guzrog just said for example I agree with. Andmany, manyother critisms I"ve agreed with.
What you quoted there wasnt in regards to you anyway.
I just said your a whinny bitch who only likes to play the overpowered flavour of the month classes. You should expect them to change (they do in all games) and you wont need to slit your wrists when it inevitably happens.
yes because the first day playing a new game on the market I CLEARLY knew what the overpowered classes were, and that I would be further nerfed every single patch in every single aspect of my character (dps, damage mitigation, endurance costs, healing & pulling. All nerfed and some nerfed multiple times). With horrible customer service to boot with all the death and game breaking bugs I encountered.


Get the fuck over yourself.

I am curious as to your level and class as I would be willing to bet i have more playtime and levels than the person who is telling me how the game is.
 

Guzrog_foh

shitlord
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WALL OF TEXT

Kylax said:
Guzrog,

What type of character do you play and why did you choose that character for Vanguard? Do you have any buddies that you play with on a constant basis? What is the one thing or change at this point in your VG career that would make you stop playing all together?

I ask these because it sounds like you are an honest to goodness mmorpg player that"s trying something new and not trying to put a spin on things.
I haven"t stopped playing completely however I am logging in less and when I do its for less time. As many have said, its become very hard to find a group at times. In regards to friends, I have 2 close friends that I also happen to work with in the same closed office (just the 3 of us so we sit around talking about gaming or MMO"s all day.) Both of them are seasoned mmo players and started VG shortly after I did and they"re also logging on and staying on a bit less. I won"t mention their issues as they aren"t mine. I play a Bard at the moment which is level 29, (which has known FPS issues due to bugs with the class, see awesome), I have had the same issues (performance wise) regardless of my class choice though as I"ve taken a necromancer to 16 or so and a disciple to 26. I"ll say flat out I think the disciple class is more or less fine especially now that they"ve fixed the bugs with bonds, the fact is 99% of them don"t know how to fucking play or even realize they have passive buffs and heals because they weren"t trained at an NPC. Of course there are some class bugs, which every single class has, but from a playability standpoint I think they"re pretty solid. The fact is theres almost no good disciples period.

I started with Talisman which started at release, and has quite a few quality players from these boards and their previous guilds and people we"ve picked up along the way. No pieces of shit in the guild etc. everyones really cool albeit everyones really fucking frustrated. Each day the active list of people slips then slips some more as each day passes into another. A good example is we cleaned up the guild around the beginning of March, basically anyone that had not logged in since the beginning of February. Now another month has passed, and we have 10 or so of any given class but monk, druid and rogues, and of those 10, probably 5-7 haven"t logged in for 2-3 weeks. Went off on a tangent there but it does reflect my point.

The main things causing me to log on less are the lack of groups when I get on, and while I didn"t mention it above the lack of meaningful solo content that genuinely makes you feel like you are progressing. I didn"t mention it because if there was a healthy population to group with, I wouldn"t be looking at the solo content so closely. The content is there but its not near as fleshed out and straight up grinding mobs isn"t even close to efficient. There are days I like to go into the woods and just kill shit. Albeit this is rare, on these days I"m finding myself firing up WOW and playing a newbie BE Mage for 20-45 minutes as opposed to taking my bard (whom I love to group with) into the woods or attempting to solo. I realize Bard isn"t the god of solo classes however if VG is trying to be the catch all Brad is touting, the progression isn"t even remotely comparable unless you are a Necromancer, but thats to be expected.

Don"t get me wrong, I do not want soloing to be at the level progression wise of grouping by any means but right now it feels as if you are wasting your time soloing in comparison to the fleshed out grouping and (IMO) SOLID dungeon experience. (Enjoyment + experience points) I can say that when I do get a group the quality is generally top notch and I"ve only ran into one real piece of shit, Bertlll on Flamehammer, and I"ve only had 2 bad pickup groups of probably 50 I"ve been a part of.

Just for disclaimer purposes I"ll add that I have no issues with the various nerfs and so on that I"ve seen and experienced. That shit is expected at the release of a game, especially Vanguard, MMORPGS are constantly in a state of balance from a class standpoint, and if you anticipated anything different at the release of a game... especially Vanguard, you are blind to the reality of these games. You go with the flow or you quit.

Right now I have no intention of quitting, but playing less? Better believe it, and that never bodes well for me.
 

Wolfen_foh

shitlord
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Hachima said:
Yeah it"s pretty sad to see how clueless that dev is



You can almost level 1-50 on the continent if you really wanted to, it would be the most effective or fun path but there is content thre. Over 20 lvl 40+ named on Ceros island and heroic quests too. No content after 20? Someone needs to clue this guy in.

There are also 3 prestige factions on this continent. Are all those worthless too? Is a dev going to come tell us, well sucks to be you but we never intended people to raise any of those that high.
Oh, they intended players to raise those factions that high. I bet the truth is that since they had to launch early they had to cancel the remaining plans for that continent but tried to slip it thru that it was the plan all along to just have the low level stuff. Having level 40+ mobs there kinda makes it obvious.
 

Morderick_foh

shitlord
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Guz:

I don"t have a 4 year old PC. I have the following PC, which isn"t the best but its not too far off...

AMD Athlon 64 x2 (Dual Core) 5200+ (@2.9ghz) so 5800 essentially
**Running the AMD dual core optimization software for WinXP by AMD
Thermatake Big Volcano CPU fan (pointing out cooling is not an issue)
4GB Corsair XMS ddr 800 RAM (running xp32 so only getting 3gb)
Soundblaster XFI Xtreme Music
BFG 8800 GTX OC 768MB
ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe NF570SLI AM2 Mobo
Hitachi 250GB Serial ATA II 7200RPM HDD w/8MB Buffer
Thermaltake Armorer Case


I work in IT (neat) etc. so the OS is tweaked and not loaded with any virus or spyware, and I defrag nightly with Diskkeeper Professional. Hell the HDD was fully formatted when I built the PC last month.

In the wilderness running along staring at the scenery.... 55-80 FPS is no problem as Xregg displays. (Chunking is still there and annoying.)

Guess what happens in a solid group? 10-18 FPS on average, 20-24 MAYBE if i"m in an enclosed room, and of course it fluctuates between 10-24 if it does go up that high. ......... The results i"m talking about are with settings on BALANCED, 90k clip plane in groups, and shadows on about 25%, 1680x1050 resolution.
OK, I beleive you are getting the results you are, I am not saying otherwise. The game doesn"t run well on 4 year old PCs.

But my system has a 1950XT. I play on a 22" in 1680x105. In a solid group i never drop to 10-18FPS... never. I don"t see how the game would be worst on your system with a 8800 ?? Your card is much more powerfull than mine.

My clip is at 500k+.

You may work in IT and you DO have a VERY good system, but something is wrong cause there is no way you"re supposed to get these numbers. I get MUCH higher than you on better setting...
 

Wolfen_foh

shitlord
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I believe ATI cards have usually performed better than Nvidia cards with Vanguard. When I was in beta, my 7900 had all kinds of trouble. Dunno if it was the drivers, game, or both.
 

kcxiv_foh

shitlord
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Morderick said:
OK, I beleive you are getting the results you are, I am not saying otherwise. The game doesn"t run well on 4 year old PCs.

But my system has a 1950XT. I play on a 22" in 1680x105. In a solid group i never drop to 10-18FPS... never. I don"t see how the game would be worst on your system with a 8800 ?? Your card is much more powerfull than mine.

My clip is at 500k+.

You may work in IT and you DO have a VERY good system, but something is wrong cause there is no way you"re supposed to get these numbers. I get MUCH higher than you on better setting...
My computer is more horrible then both of yours by alot,. and in group i am at around 10-20, and solo i am at about 30-40.

For some reason i seem to be the lucky one on this game.
 

Guzrog_foh

shitlord
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Wolfen said:
I believe ATI cards have usually performed better than Nvidia cards with Vanguard.When I was in beta, my 7900 had all kinds of trouble. Dunno if it was the drivers, game, or both.
This is a fact. The game especially has issues with 8800"s but this is usually graphical issues such as pure cocaine white textures on environmental objects as opposed to FPS issues. The main point I wanted to convey though that was at least currently you aren"t going to get the results Brad mentioned (highest quality smooth as silk) with most of the systems he listed, but perhaps with an ATI setup you would get near them. I also failed to mention that while I get a solid amount of FPS just running around in the middle of no where, the FPS will randomly dip down to 15 and back up to 80 at any given time, thats the game being optimized poorly however. I also had the same issues on my old box which had an AMD 4000+ 1mb cache, BFG 7900 GTX, 3GB corsair XMS.
 

Erronius

Macho Ma'am
<Gold Donor>
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Utnayan said:
PS: Good to be back. I cannot wait to go through McQuaid"s posts and rip them to shit and back, because I have never seen so much bullshit fluff in my life.
I almost wonder why you would even bother. You stood your ground and went tooth and claw over VG, and even though many of your assertions were correct it really didn"t change anything at all. Those people who shared your impressions didn"t need to be influenced further, and the Vanbois just denied you wholesale. Many people agreed with you (I did more or less), but they just didn"t go to the lengths that you did. In the end you garnered a great deal of vitriol against you and nothing was really changed due to your forum warrioring.

People have had to come to the realizations for themselves. Just like all the old hardcores who denied that VG would ever be "WoW-ified" (rezzes, in-game map). Even though predictions were made saying that Sigil would bend for the mass market, those people ignored the naysayers and kept on until they couldn"t deny it any longer and went off on the forums (right before they got closed iirc). You see this same blind loyalty in this thread as well; no matter how many valid points are brought up that criticize VG, the self appointed (anointed?) defenders use their own personal opinions to defend against well known and publicized criticisms. The Vanbois seem unable to understand that being critical of a game doesn"t mean that you want it to fail (rather, the opposite is true), and that ignoring the problems from the top down doesn"t help VG at all.

I imagine you will go rip-roaring through the VG threads again; more power to you. I just don"t think any amount of arguing and debate over VG will do anything to change any opinions. The haters will still point out all of VG"s failings, and the Vanbois will still counter every argument with "I like it, therefore it must be good!", "No game is ever ready at release" and "You can"t say it"s a bad game, if you don"t play it! Go buy the game and subscribe, andTHENyou can be critical!"

Utnayan said:
I wouldn"t be surprised though if he never posted here again, since one of the stipulations that he came back to post was that I was banned first.
WTF? Was this some behind-the-scenes stipulation? I cannot remember having heard anything along those lines at all, so that is all I can imagine. If this is true, then 1) I have far less respect for Brad if he was so unwilling to address critiques that not only did he just post outdated screenshots in response to questions, that he also had to insist you be banned, and 2) I"m highly disappointed that the boards would do this just to appease McQuaid so he would post again. (if, indeed, this was done).