Windows 8

Silence_sl

shitlord
2,459
5
DirectX is now an advanced feature.
I can see the limitations now.

Windows 10 Core OS:
- Limited to no more than 10 installs of various programs that didn't come with the OS.
- Cannot connect to a workgroup.
- No more than 4GB ram / 2 physical CPU cores / 500GB disk / no more than two active SATA ports / 1GB video ram.
- Resolutions above 1366x768 not supported.
et cetera.
 

Mist

REEEEeyore
<Rickshaw Potatoes>
31,802
24,488
Yeah that's exactly what Microsoft would do when facing stiff competition, introduce a confusing tier system with obscure technical limitations.

More like value-added services like Media Player, Skype, OneDrive, other cloud stuff we haven't seen yet.
 

Silence_sl

shitlord
2,459
5
Yeah that's exactly what Microsoft would do when facing stiff competition, introduce a confusing tier system with obscure technical limitations.

More like value-added services like Media Player, Skype, OneDrive, other cloud stuff we haven't seen yet.
It's not like they haven't released phone OSes that were incompatible with each other. It's not like they haven't released two tablet OSes...one of which couldn't run any x86 software...they've clearly done none of this while facing stiff competition.

It's not like they won't continue to make back ackwards decisions when it comes to their primary OS...a field they have no competition in.
 

Mist

REEEEeyore
<Rickshaw Potatoes>
31,802
24,488
They have competition from Windows 7, something everyone already has and is happy with. There's no way they could charge a subscription fee for something that has features subtracted from Win7.
 

Jysin

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
6,838
5,008
Says the basic OS would be free, subscriptions would be for 'advanced features.' That sounds awesome, sinceI disable/completely gut practically all of the 'advanced features' of Windows as it is.
Assuming Mist was referring to "advanced features" in a sarcastic way and cuts out (disables) all of the bloat services running by default. I do the same.

Black Vipers Windows 7 Service Pack 1 Service Configurations » Black Viper | www.blackviper.com
 

Frenzied Wombat

Potato del Grande
14,730
31,804
Get used to it. Every single software vendor that can get away with ramming a subscription model down consumers' throats, will. From a revenue standpoint it gives every single analyst/accountant/executive a serious hard-on. Same thing with "the cloud"-- From an operations standpoint, the "cloud" isn't the panacea of IT bliss the vendors make it out to be (quite the opposite imho), but they shill it at every opportunity. Why? Because just like subscription based services it makes for a nice predictable revenue stream.
 

Chancellor Alkorin

Part-Time Sith
<Granularity Engineer>
6,052
10,317
Yeah that's exactly what Microsoft would do when facing stiff competition, introduce a confusing tier system with obscure technical limitations.
Right, because they've never introduced a line of Windows that had Starter, Basic, Premium, Professional, and Ultimate (and Business, and Enterprise) in it, right?

I mean, it's not like they did this with Windows XP, right? Wait, there are 14 different SKUs for Windows XP. Vista? 18 different SKUs. Windows 7? 30 different fucking SKUs. Many of them are so obscure that no one would ever run them unless they had a particular need, but there they are anyway. And this doesn't even count 32- and 64-bit versions of Vista and 7. The 14 SKUs for XP includes x64, which no one in their right mind would have used (but there it was anyway).

You are way off base here.

Thankfully, they have cut down on this ridiculousness for Windows 8/8.1 (8 SKUs, including RT).
 

Araxen

Golden Baronet of the Realm
10,659
8,104
They have competition from Windows 7, something everyone already has and is happy with. There's no way they could charge a subscription fee for something that has features subtracted from Win7.
This is Microsoft we are talking about right? They are slowly doing it with Office and Windows is next. They've been wanting a sub model for the OS for years now.
 

Mist

REEEEeyore
<Rickshaw Potatoes>
31,802
24,488
Right, because they've never introduced a line of Windows that had Starter, Basic, Premium, Professional, and Ultimate (and Business, and Enterprise) in it, right?

I mean, it's not like they did this with Windows XP, right? Wait, there are 14 different SKUs for Windows XP. Vista? 18 different SKUs. Windows 7? 30 different fucking SKUs. Many of them are so obscure that no one would ever run them unless they had a particular need, but there they are anyway. And this doesn't even count 32- and 64-bit versions of Vista and 7. The 14 SKUs for XP includes x64, which no one in their right mind would have used (but there it was anyway).

You are way off base here.

Thankfully, they have cut down on this ridiculousness for Windows 8/8.1 (8 SKUs, including RT).
I don't think we'll ever see more than 3 'main' skus again, with a few other SKUs for the oddball corporate licensing models. Microsoft is bad but they do learn from their mistakes eventually.
 

Siliconemelons

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
12,757
19,464
Get used to it. Every single software vendor that can get away with ramming a subscription model down consumers' throats, will. From a revenue standpoint it gives every single analyst/accountant/executive a serious hard-on. Same thing with "the cloud"-- From an operations standpoint, the "cloud" isn't the panacea of IT bliss the vendors make it out to be (quite the opposite imho), but they shill it at every opportunity. Why? Because just like subscription based services it makes for a nice predictable revenue stream.
Exchange hosted local we have had a total of a handful of hours down in the past 3 years (non-maintenance windows etc.) - 3 month 360 beta and we had 1.5 (I think 26hr) work day down time- and yes it fit well within the SLA from Microsoft... so yeah we are staying with on site hosting even counter to the fact MS is basically giving 360 away now to later om-nom the yearly fees. Companies are being about as dumb as American people are in giving away their control, just put it in the cloud! DBAS? sure, put all your info into something that has to go outside your intranet, HR systems in the cloud?! WHY YES PLEASE! what could happen! its so much better (read cheaper)

They love yearly or monthly recurring rather than "dealing with the hassle of..." purchasing computers, servers or software in odd-cycle times... that's why we now lease every darn computer...
 

Borzak

Silver Baron of the Realm
26,639
35,462
They've been on this for a while I guess. Apparently the start button was an advanced feature, you just had to buy it from someone else.
 

Frenzied Wombat

Potato del Grande
14,730
31,804
Exchange hosted local we have had a total of a handful of hours down in the past 3 years (non-maintenance windows etc.) - 3 month 360 beta and we had 1.5 (I think 26hr) work day down time- and yes it fit well within the SLA from Microsoft... so yeah we are staying with on site hosting even counter to the fact MS is basically giving 360 away now to later om-nom the yearly fees. Companies are being about as dumb as American people are in giving away their control, just put it in the cloud! DBAS? sure, put all your info into something that has to go outside your intranet, HR systems in the cloud?! WHY YES PLEASE! what could happen! its so much better (read cheaper)

They love yearly or monthly recurring rather than "dealing with the hassle of..." purchasing computers, servers or software in odd-cycle times... that's why we now lease every darn computer...
Same experience here. We have a 3 node Exchange 2010 DAG and have had literally 25 minutes of total unplanned downtime in the last four years. The level of granular control you get from on-premise simply can't be met by an in the cloud offering. Also, something that you'd literally implement/fix on your own in under a minute now requires the dreaded support call to get done. Then, if you want your data out of the cloud, or want it moved to another cloud vendor, good fucking luck. Once they realize you're not a potential revenue stream anymore the migration of your 10TB of data is now in the hands of some mouth breather in India. And don't even get me started on "security"-- we have a regulatory requirement to archive our email with a 3rd party vendor, and chose a "top tier" provider to do so, and they just so happened to have an account with a company that has the same name as us, and all it took was an email request for an additional admin account for them to accidentally give me access to the mail archives of this other company. Not once, but twice lol. Your "cloud security" is basically as good as the $10/hour retard that answers their helpdesk. Except for some "niche" type cloud apps like cloud based 2-factor providers (basically services that don't hold your data, but perform a function) the Cloud is just corporate IT provider propoganda
 

Luthair

Lord Nagafen Raider
1,247
85
I'd trust Microsoft over the average company sysadmin, (particularly a sysadmin for MS products...) just see the umpteen company hacks like Sony vs relatively few of cloud providers. My past experience is support for an enterprise product as well as developing them leads me to believe that most systems have limited to questionable backups for disaster recovery.

I would assume that downtime is mostly growing pains for the service, at some point it will be like gmail and outages will be a rarity.
 

brekk

Dancing Dino Superstar
<Bronze Donator>
2,197
1,758
Office 365 Cloud Exchange isn't too bad, a few of our customers use it. It serves a great purpose for smaller businesses that don't have the need for a server/licensing/static IP, but still want something with more control then typical webmail. The Cloud Exchange is actually pretty powerful though obviously not for enterprise scale environment.

Just an FYI for recovering data. If you go into the Admin Exchange section and then eDiscovery, you can make parses with filters and download each as a .pst file. We did the for a customer recently, we picked them up as 20 computers in a workgroup with individual logins and local shares. Got them onboard with a Windows Server with proper exchange and a domain. Had to download everyones mailbox as a .pst to import to their new mail accounts.


As for the yearly/monthly Office 365 pricing, yes its more expensive, but in our case better than dealing with people who keep using the same copy off Office 2000/2003/etc. and won't upgrade. Especially for small businesses where they can't justify a VLK purchase and buying normal consumer copies of office is such a cluster fuck with needing a live account.
 

Mist

REEEEeyore
<Rickshaw Potatoes>
31,802
24,488
Our community college offers Office 365 to every student, which has all those amazing collaboration features, and yet they never bother to tell the students that it even exists, how to log into it, or how to use any of those features. Also they don't tell people how to setup email clients with the Office 365 exchange server. Took me forever to get Thunderbird/Exquilla set up with it.
 

Chancellor Alkorin

Part-Time Sith
<Granularity Engineer>
6,052
10,317
I'd trust Microsoft
Sorry, lost me after this. All I do all day at work is support Microsoft products in an enterprise, and I wouldn't trust them in the cloud to save my life. It has nothing to do with the stability of their products; rather, the fact that I'm not in charge of (or even in the know about) how their security platform has been implemented and is monitored. It's easy to say that they surely have a large focus on security in the cloud, but so did Sony, right? Wait, no. So does Google, right? No, because gmail has been torn a new one many times, mostly because People are Stupid and use their dog's name as a password.

I always recommend that businesses stick with an internally secured network. "The cloud" isn't secure enough for user services. Great for back-end stuff when proper security models are in place, but not for users, because they always find a way to do something stupid.
 

Frenzied Wombat

Potato del Grande
14,730
31,804
Sorry, lost me after this. All I do all day at work is support Microsoft products in an enterprise, and I wouldn't trust them in the cloud to save my life. It has nothing to do with the stability of their products; rather, the fact that I'm not in charge of (or even in the know about) how their security platform has been implemented and is monitored. It's easy to say that they surely have a large focus on security in the cloud, but so did Sony, right? Wait, no. So does Google, right? No, because gmail has been torn a new one many times, mostly because People are Stupid and use their dog's name as a password.

I always recommend that businesses stick with an internally secured network. "The cloud" isn't secure enough for user services. Great for back-end stuff when proper security models are in place, but not for users, because they always find a way to do something stupid.
^ Exactly this

I'd like to add that I've seen some of these "top notch" cloud provider cages at our data center and while you may be envisioning some perfectly cabled rack, hosting a top notch blade center, EMC SAN, and Cisco Nexus switch, in reality half the time it's a stinking pile of clone servers looked after by the lowliest of IT admins.

Another thing to note is that cloud providers are bigger, far more lucrative targets than your own network, and if another client gets DDoS'd, you are too if you're on the same pipe. We had a "sister company" decide to move all their anti-spam and email encryption into the cloud. Basically you make the cloud provider your new MX record and now all your inbound email gets cleansed through them. Well, a few days after they started getting calls from their clients saying their emails were getting bounced.. Seems that some of the other clients that use the same provider had open relays, causing the remailer cloud service to get blacklisted. So basically the company got fucked for a few days until the provider could get delisted and shut down the open relays. Then weeks later after this mess gets cleaned up, they have a client that isn't receiving their email because of a recent MX change they made. Seems their cloud provider remailer caches DNS records for 72 hours (raugh!) so the MX record took days before it finally updated for them.. Both of these shitty situations simply wouldn't happen if they kept their anti-spam system in house.

P.S: While I'm on an IT rant, FUCK JAVA. Why hasn't this bloated, slow, useless, security hole ridden piece of shit language been dustbinned yet? Managing/patching this piece of garbage on a network has become a full time job.
 

matsb84

Silver Knight of the Realm
192
51
P.S: While I'm on an IT rant, FUCK JAVA. Why hasn't this bloated, slow, useless, security hole ridden piece of shit language been dustbinned yet? Managing/patching this piece of garbage on a network has become a full time job.
Oh really? We've had issues with going from 7 to 8, but I think that had more to do with IT staff installing newer versions of java manually rather than letting us update it via gp. What kind of issues have you run into? At least the newer versions of java actually started removing the older versions. I think that started in version 7 or at the end of 6 finally...so dumb.
 

Agraza

Registered Hutt
6,890
521
Yea, not removing the older versions was pretty gay. Way to be special snowflakes there guys. Actually not so much, a lot of driver software still does that shit too. You know what your previous program installed. Why not clean it up when it's no longer in use? Java has annoyed me so often about versions in the past.