World of Warcraft: Current Year

Penance said:

Sub is amazing. After getting used to the rotation I have to agree it feels very fluid. I'm using DfA build and love seeing those fucking huge crits. It's funny because I find the rogue the absolute mirror to the warlock (minus Outlow/Demo) for specs. Assassin/Affliction and Sub/Destro fill very similar roles while being on the opposite end of the DPS spectrum (melee to ranged).

I'm trying to get 1 of every role through heroic ToS before Argus. Rogue is next and then it will be DH. Dunno if I want to put my Ejaculation Fluid through ToS or finish leveling my LoLY Priest.

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Unfortunately it sounds like it's getting nerfed.

Qwirb said:

Unfortunately it sounds like it's getting nerfed.

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Yea they nerfed the BIS legendaries. Sims with BIS gear are showing over a 100k drop in damage. Doesn't effect me because I didn't have those legendarys

So about 5% nerf to Sub. Anyone know the numbers for Arms? I hear they got hit harder.

I thought I read 6-8% but also could be making that up

Noodleface said:

I thought I read 6-8% but also could be making that up

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Cool. Looks like Warlocks are the kings again. Fuckers.

When were they not kings?

The funny thing is sims are getting further and further off as gear gets more inflated with stats. In EN people could reliably count on sims to give them a decent estimate. Now?

My sims are literally 300k off. Anyone who still uses sims as a guide for their class can be safely ignored. They have no fucking clue.

Ah the old "my dps sucks, sims must be off!" trick

Wink wink

You think that excuse is bad

We had a dude in our raid die and his excuse was that his A and D keys somehow reversed keybinds for movement... Just on that one boss, exactly when he died. Yes he was serious

What does inflation have to do with anything? Math is math. That's the great thing, the numbers get bigger but the formula stay the same. Maybe the variance between perfect play and sub par play becomes greater. But I know I perform within 10-20k of what I sim. Of course I'm not simming at 1.2+ yet so we'll see.

RNG on trinkets is somewhat normalized over 6-8 minute fights I thought?

xzi said:

When were they not kings?

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At the start of Legion, warlocks were the worst dps class though EN. Our lock from WoD quit because of the state of the class.

Khane said:

The funny thing is sims are getting further and further off as gear gets more inflated with stats. In EN people could reliably count on sims to give them a decent estimate. Now?

My sims are literally 300k off. Anyone who still uses sims as a guide for their class can be safely ignored. They have no fucking clue.

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As far as I remember, the Simcraft people have always said that using sims to get DPS numbers to compare classes/specs is not the proper use of the tool. It is for helping with gear choices, full stop. I am sure you could go through all the options and maybe set up one of the simpler boss mechanic fights, but no one does that shit when you see these simmed dps figures released.

In regards to the rogue nerfs, if you use some napkin math you dont need sims to tell you how much it will hurt. For the shoulders, take a gander at logs, see how many times you vanished, and figure out how much you will lose on that last ability that wont be 100% crit. For the boots, it shouldn't be that difficult to figure out the average amount of combo points you lose over the course of the fight. Not that I am going to do this, cause I hate the lego system, so fuck em.

Penance said:

RNG on trinkets is somewhat normalized over 6-8 minute fights I thought?

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Maybe?

One of the problems is building every trinket into every meta rotation, every time Bliz decides to change things. Some classes have better support on sims, than others. Rogues always one of the top supported classes, but not sure where other classes/specs stand.

Even if the sim for your spec is 100% accurate, trinkets are probably the best example of the weaknesses of the sim programs. The difference between perfect play and real world play is the most pronounced when you dont have plain stats to feed into the calculator.

As an example, take the Specter of Betrayal (melee dps trinket from KJ), sims will have it lined up perfect, so it will always sim high, but if you miss placement, or the boss moves for what ever reason, the trinket can be less effective than a stat stick.

Palum said:

Ah the old "my dps sucks, sims must be off!" trick

Wink wink

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Heh, no I do 300k MORE than my sims. Relying on a human to create a program that can accurately simulate the game and then relying on other, different humans to create routines for particular skills/talents/legendaries/trinkets/set bonuses is obviously prone to error.

Something is really wrong with the UH DK routines because a defile build sims hundreds of thousands of DPS lower than what you can get out of it in practice. Even on single target fights. My guess would be they are not properly coding Cold Heart for the extra 3k mastery you can get from Defile.

You'll even see many top parsers using trinkets/legendary combos that don't sim well across a lot of different classes/specs.

Burns said:

As far as I remember, the Simcraft people have always said that using sims to get DPS numbers to compare classes/specs is not the proper use of the tool. It is for helping with gear choices, full stop.

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That makes even less sense. How exactly is it helping you with gear choices other than by showing you which gear is simming higher dps?

I think the standard reply is that no real world fights are patchwork fights anymore. So unless you tweak the setting yourself, you will never get those dps numbers. Even the single target fights have mechanics where you will not have 100% uptime on the boss or a bonus/reduction to dps phase. You can still figure out stat weights from a patchwork fight, though, and that takes care of pretty much all gear except relics, trinkets and some legos.

Legos and trinkets are designed to be situational, relics are just dumb.


Even if the simcraft people, who do this as a hobby, had every spec perfect, Bliz does not balance around patchwork fights, so the comparisons are worthless.

Sounds like we are in agreement.

I must have misunderstood, it looked like you implied that sims had no value.

Also there's mudflation.

If you simmed 200k when EN came out and actually did 230k it was meh. If you're sinning 1.2M and doing 1.5M that error is just scaled that much