World of Warcraft: Current Year

Khane said:

Mythic mechanics were not fun.

Zul was just a burn, and was kind of lame and at first you needed to stack sub rogues for it. Mythrax was just a bad, boring fight. I hate unavoidable loss of control mechanics and the fight was too long. G'huun was just.... G'huun was one of the worst fights they have ever designed. So bad, in fact, that many guilds got the CE achievement and then never re-killed him.

Click to expand...

Gotcha okay, wasn't sure if you were talking in general or just the Mythic versions. Got to Zul Mythic before I stopped, but didn't see the final two on Mythic.

Method slowly chipping away at Jaina on mythic. Best attempt so far is 28.3%. I don't know who at Blizzard tunes these fights, but, what the fuck? I think they've wiped over 250 times by this point. The fight is fucked up.

Yup. Supposedly Limit had to go back to doing splits. Specifically that the healing output required is just insane post sixty percent.

There hasn't been a first reset clear since Emerald Nightmare. Which, coincidentally, was the last reasonably tuned raid tier.

Vimeseh said:

Yup. Supposedly Limit had to go back to doing splits. Specifically that the healing output required is just insane post sixty percent.

Click to expand...

Yep. The healing output required is absolutely retarded. The HP on the iceblocks is absolutely retarded. The fight is fucking retarded.

Kuriin said:

Method slowly chipping away at Jaina on mythic. Best attempt so far is 28.3%. I don't know who at Blizzard tunes these fights, but, what the fuck? I think they've wiped over 250 times by this point. The fight is fucked up.

Click to expand...

Jaina isn't tuned for their item levels. She's tuned for item levels of people that have been progressing through the instance for months

For instance. My guild,.completely geared enough for the fight, took 500 wipes to kill mythic Argus last expansion. There were some guilds at 1000+

I forget methods wipe count on Argus but it was very high too

Frankly, it should be near impossible to clear Mythic first reset or two. Progression is a thing, need a few clears to let gear/upgrades soak through.

Merrith said:

Frankly, it should be near impossible to clear Mythic first reset or two. Progression is a thing, need a few clears to let gear/upgrades soak through.

Click to expand...

This is absurd. These people are playing 16 hours a day and this is their job. This is all they do. If they can't kill shit in one reset what the fuck does that mean for the normal player base? Why do people think this is good for the game? It's terrible and it needs to stop.

A lot of people in their raid are already 410 ilvl. Which is the ilvl people will finally be weeks or months from now in typical Mythic raiding guilds.

Exorsus killed Xavius within 24 hours. EN was also the last raid tier that didn't destroy guilds and fracture the player base. it was a great raid and was tuned appropriately for your typical Mythic raider. Nighthold got a bit ridiculous being tuned around max Artifact traits. It was a brick wall for most guilds but it was a well designed raid and the fights were fun. Then ToS came out and it was a terribly designed raid, with lousy fights that messed with your camera angle like crazy and was completely idiotic when it came to amount of pulls necessary to kill both of the final two bosses. Antorus was similarly difficult with better fights and a better raid instance but still required way too much time investment. Uldir was ToS 2.0 with an easier last boss.

This is a game. It shouldn't take well-geared, capable players 3-4 months to clear a raid, which is what it typically takes a guild full of good, but not great, players who don't invest inordinate amounts of time doing the stupid chores they've set up in modern WoW.

Dom said:

The "normal" playerbase doesn't give a shit about Mythic. All making Mythic easier is going to accomplish is the need for Super-Duper-Mythic when people start whining that Mythic is too easy (because the people they watch on Twitch make it look that way)

Click to expand...

As a mythic raider this is completely wrong. People who say shit like "Oh Method killed it in 48 hours, this tier is a joke" are usually people who have never even stepped foot in a Mythic raid and want to make themselves feel important in twitch chat. Mythic raiding in its current state is way too much of a time investment and caters to the smallest portion of the playerbase at the cost of the game at large.

Let me tell you how fun wiping for weeks in a 9 hour a week (3 nights a week, 3 hours per night) guild is without even progressing because people won't log in to clear their AP WQs and do their island expeditions/M+ chores. And who can blame them?

And the world first race is more boring than NASCAR in its current state. They could easily make the race more enjoyable for everyone involved (both viewers and raiders) by making it more competitive. The easiest way to make it more competitive is to make it more accessible so people don't have to quit their jobs and play WoW full time to participate. If all regions unlocked at the same time and fights were tuned a bit harder than EN to stretch the race to about ~48 hours you'd have a lot more guilds competing and a lot more people staying interested. The 100 yard dash is infinitely more exciting to watch than a marathon.

I always find comments like that hilarious. This is the top 0.001% we're talking about. The regular Joe shmoe mythic raiders will take months like it's supposed to

Dom said:

The "normal" playerbase doesn't give a shit about Mythic.

Click to expand...

Method livestreaming Ghunn peaked about 300k viewers on Twitch. It's quite high for a not caring normal playerbase. I fully agree with Khane's NASCAR statement but there's no way "normal" playerbase doesn't give a shit, as long as watching some guild wiping all day long isn't the pinnacle of gaming entertainment it's kind of interesting seeing top notch players performing in a team environment.

Their specs /minmaxing / optimization / skill rotations / playstyles will be analyzed, dissected, criticized, memed even. You can express strong criticism about people sitting 16/24 hours a day trying to beat a script, it's still a milestone for a lot of raid content players regarding boss kill achievment.

Theres a barrier of entry with mythic. FoH was split for a long time about starting mythic. So there were normal players that wanted to but couldn't, so we just watched. I'd imagine that's how a lot of people feel.

Dom said:

Otherwise known as the people Blizzard listens and caters to.

I say this without any intent of malice or rudeness: I honestly don't care what your experience with Mythic is like or how frustrating it is. When you sign up for the hardest difficulty in a game that was created because the previous hardest difficulty wasn't difficult enough, then you should bloody well expect all of that and more.

I have watched the raiding community from the sidelines for over a decade bitch and moan about everything possible and the most amusing of it all is the constant crying about things being both too difficult and too easy at the same time. Bunch of schizophrenic masochists, all of you. Making it easier won't solve anything. Making it harder won't solve anything. Nothing will solve it because it's simply not possible to design a difficulty tier over such a wide range of player/guild skill. You all want your world-first races on top of being able to participate in the same content. Well as you said: How the fuck is the "normal" guy supposed to pull it off? He's not, that's how. He's supposed to go slum it down in heroic instead of asking for the ceiling to be lowered for his benefit.

You either cut off the top of Mt. Everest or you make it inaccessible to all but the crazy fuckers that are willing to risk their lives to reach it. You can't have both.

Click to expand...

I don't give a shit about the world first race at all outside of the first day or two when there are a plethora of guilds all at around the same point in progression, still making visible progress. Other than that I only care about my own enjoyment and satisfaction. EN was sufficiently difficult and satisfying for my tastes, and that's what I want to go back to, until maybe the very final raid of an expansion (which was traditionally the way it was done). I am not one of those players who is trying to prop up my skill level to other players, I only care about what I find fun, and mythic raiding has not been fun for a very long time. The only reason I participated until I finally quit last week was as a means to an end to help me push higher M+ keys.

And so that's where my criticism comes from. I will never complain something is too easy. If the content becomes easy for these bleeding edge guilds to clear in 2 days the race becomes more about speed than about sheer determination, will and time investment. Which would also make it more entertaining in my estimation.

By the way the top end world first pushers are not happy with the game in its current state either. The pendulum swings back and forth as you suggest but at the moment it has swung entirely too far in the "difficult" direction. And Blizzard has shown they don't cater to anyone other than Activision's bean counters and their own smug egos.

Mythic raiding barrier nowadays is about dedication and attendance. Then, you have to manage your roster, which is an absolute hell : you have to bench people, recruit raiders, manage personalities, deal with egoes, make sure everyone is up-to-date, face last minute noshows, deal with dramas, etc.

For a lot of guilds it's kind of a fulltime job, because whenever something goes wrong (and during mythic progress it seems to happen a lot) you can be the ultimate selfish cunt out there, there's no way you'll kill the boss alone.

Mythic progress is very demanding and I really think a lot of WoW players won't just see it as a glass ceiling and just want to be part of it, agreed on their own terms. Mythic raiding, especially the famous top 0.1%, is I think a luxury showcase a lot of WoW players see because as complex and rich (or not haha) the game is nowadays, it's always about gear, and about it being better than anyone.