2018 NFL Offseason Thread -- Philadelphia Burning Edition

Merrith

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Jozu said:
I'm saying if the market continues to go in the direction it's going, Gurley SHOULD be making 24 million dollars a year.

What about LeVeon Bell? The guy has produced at an ungodly rate for multiple seasons, he is surely worth 20 plus million a year in 2019.

Basically, my argument is QBs are overpaid while other positions are underpaid, whoever argues against this is not being objective or fair.

QBs are obviously the most important position, so naturally their value should be higher, just not THIS high.

It's funny how people are just glossing over the fact that a guy with 7 career starts is the highest paid player in the league (who happens to be a QB).
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Nobody is glossing over that last fact. That's literally been the discussion about Cousins and his impending free agency for the past couple of years in and around DC and around the league. The fact that the QB position is that important that you have to pay a premium for anyone who is remotely close to a top 10-15 guy when their next deal is up.

Lets not forget, the Rams had Gurley last year too, and he didn't do nearly as much. Goff's 2nd year likely bigger factor, McVay and even larger one, that's why you don't pay a RB that much...not to mention the simple fact that RB's that have X amount of touches over 3+ years are on a countdown for how many productive years they have left. It's just the way it is. I think he has a few more great years in him, but 4 years from now, who's likely to be vastly more valuable to his team? Garoppogoat or Gurley?
 
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Jozu

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Merrith said:
Nobody is glossing over that last fact. That's literally been the discussion about Cousins and his impending free agency for the past couple of years in and around DC and around the league. The fact that the QB position is that important that you have to pay a premium for anyone who is remotely close to a top 10-15 guy when their next deal is up.

Lets not forget, the Rams had Gurley last year too, and he didn't do nearly as much. Goff's 2nd year likely bigger factor, McVay and even larger one, that's why you don't pay a RB that much...not to mention the simple fact that RB's that have X amount of touches over 3+ years are on a countdown for how many productive years they have left. It's just the way it is. I think he has a few more great years in him, but 4 years from now, who's likely to be vastly more valuable to his team? Garoppogoat or Gurley?
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Its hard to argue with you here on this point, and I get what your saying, but in a perfect world, was Goff more valuable than Gurley this year? I would say no. Goff was terrible last year and so was Gurley but that was mostly on Fisher. This past year they were both great players, but Gurley won offensive player of the year. When Goffs rookie deal is up he will command a stupid contract and most likely get it, as he is harder to replace than even a great RB like Gurley.

All Im saying it would be nice if teams would load RB contracts with heavy incentives or something, so every contract is basically a Chris Johnson type contract but on 3 years, if you hit 1200 yards rushing you get 2 million dollars, 1500 you get 3 million, 10 or more touchdowns you get 4 million etc etc. I know there have been many RB contracts that have had these escalators, and in todays game these guys want guaranteed money, but if you have a really good year running the ball you should get a huge salary boost by the end of the year, maybe it wouldnt count towards the cap for teams or something.

Look at Devonta Freeman, who just signed a 4 year 42.5 million $ contract with Atlanta. His 8 million $ a year contract will past Shady McCoy as the leagues highest paid back. LOL.

Like cmon. This guy has played great, he has dealt with some injuries, but they probably should of won a super bowl with him carrying the ball for them, and has had 2 productive seasons and is a proven commodity at a tough position. He gets 8 million dollars.....

Garoppolo gets 127 million $ contract, with Freemans entire contract amount equal to this upcoming year's salary...LMAO. That is fucking insane.
 
BrutulTM

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It's not insane, it's just supply and demand. If Freeman wants QB money, he should have played QB. He probably can't play QB, just like almost everyone else in the world, which is why they get paid so much. There's no reason to feel sorry for someone who "only" makes $8M a year.
 
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Merrith

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Jozu said:
Its hard to argue with you here on this point, and I get what your saying, but in a perfect world, was Goff more valuable than Gurley this year? I would say no. Goff was terrible last year and so was Gurley but that was mostly on Fisher. This past year they were both great players, but Gurley won offensive player of the year. When Goffs rookie deal is up he will command a stupid contract and most likely get it, as he is harder to replace than even a great RB like Gurley.

All Im saying it would be nice if teams would load RB contracts with heavy incentives or something, so every contract is basically a Chris Johnson type contract but on 3 years, if you hit 1200 yards rushing you get 2 million dollars, 1500 you get 3 million, 10 or more touchdowns you get 4 million etc etc. I know there have been many RB contracts that have had these escalators, and in todays game these guys want guaranteed money, but if you have a really good year running the ball you should get a huge salary boost by the end of the year, maybe it wouldnt count towards the cap for teams or something.

Look at Devonta Freeman, who just signed a 4 year 42.5 million $ contract with Atlanta. His 8 million $ a year contract will past Shady McCoy as the leagues highest paid back. LOL.

Like cmon. This guy has played great, he has dealt with some injuries, but they probably should of won a super bowl with him carrying the ball for them, and has had 2 productive seasons and is a proven commodity at a tough position. He gets 8 million dollars.....

Garoppolo gets 127 million $ contract, with Freemans entire contract amount equal to this upcoming year's salary...LMAO. That is fucking insane.
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Freeman splits carries down in Atlanta anyways, are you going to overpay a guy who doesn't even do a full load like Gurley? Also benefited greatly from Ryan and their passing offense not allowing teams to stack the box. I'd say Gurley overall more valuable this past year, although don't undersell Goff's development, either. Goff will be the longer term value though as Gurley starts to break down from touches/hits.

Seriously though, we should remember this moment and check back 3 years from now to see where Freeman v. Garoppolo are, and Gurley/Goff.
 
Jozu

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Im not saying im on with the numbers, as 20 plus million a year for a RB is obviously not realistic. But when the QB market is so lopsided, rosters are very limited in what they can do when they have to pay franchise QB money to any QB who has a pulse.

If you broke down all of the top talents in the league and was objective about how they should be paid based on production and didn't factor in the unbalanced market, who deserves the most money? Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers, and then the next tier would be the next best batch of QB's and then you have to start talking the leveon Bells, Antonio Browns, Julio Jones, Von Mller etc.

Instead its the just elite QBs, young up and coming QBs, mid level successful QBs, journeyman QB's and THEN top top CB's in the league, edge rushers, Dlinemen, and finally the best skill position players.
 
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And that is due to the nfl being a QB driven league. Having Great QB "this year " immediately elevates your team to contender status. Which is also why, said qb getting injured = being the underdog despite having a great record.

buffalo Chicago jets etc would immediately be " contenders" if they got a good QB instead of having average to poor QB. Hell, Cleveland getting a good qb-who stays healthy and turns the offense into something good - would have a good chance to make the playoffs.
 
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Sadre Spinegnawer

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Lenardo said:
And that is due to the nfl being a QB driven league. Having Great QB "this year " immediately elevates your team to contender status. Which is also why, said qb getting injured = being the underdog despite having a great record.

buffalo Chicago jets etc would immediately be " contenders" if they got a good QB instead of having average to poor QB. Hell, Cleveland getting a good qb-who stays healthy and turns the offense into something good - would have a good chance to make the playoffs.
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I agree. But this indicates to me, the sport is broken. I'm not knowledgeable enough about the sport I pretend to know the solution, but when one player in one (and only one) position can turn your team into a contender -- especially in a mass team sport like football! -- something is wrong.

It would be equivalent to if in baseball a pitcher made all the difference. Pitchers are central, but they do not seal the deal in baseball. Football needs to figure out how to make QB's less of the be all end all of a team. because let me tell you, it gets boring. Cleveland sports radio is basically all day, "What should we do about the QB position?"

That is a sign of a sport out of balance.

edit: funny idea. How about the NFL impose a QB rotation system? Every team has 3 QB's, so make it so that each can only play every third game?

I know that is stupid ridiculous, but really, this QB-centric deal needs to change.
 
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Sterling

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Sadre Spinegnawer said:
I agree. But this indicates to me, the sport is broken. I'm not knowledgeable enough about the sport I pretend to know the solution, but when one player in one (and only one) position can turn your team into a contender -- especially in a mass team sport like football! -- something is wrong.

It would be equivalent to if in baseball a pitcher made all the difference. Pitchers are central, but they do not seal the deal in baseball. Football needs to figure out how to make QB's less of the be all end all of a team. because let me tell you, it gets boring. Cleveland sports radio is basically all day, "What should we do about the QB position?"

That is a sign of a sport out of balance.
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I mean if they only played 1 baseball game a week instead of 5 or 6 then the starting pitcher would have more impact than the QB does in football. The difference is in baseball you have usually 5 man rotations with occassionally skipping the 5th dude if off days work out a certain way.
 
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Jozu

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The market will balance itself out.

I dont think the league will step in, what will most likely happen is the quality of the QB position will start to increase (it has had ebbs and flows since the 70's, with the late 1980's/early 90's being the golden era for QB's, with Montana, Marino, Elway, Cunningham, Young, Aikman, Favre, Jim Kelly, Boomer Esaison, the list goes on and on) and the value of their contracts will start to fall back down to earth. Owners will instruct GMs to try and find QB talent late in the draft to avoid paying huge salaries to the position (look what happened to the Colts after they paid Luck) and that will also start to level out the paydays.

If Rosen, Darnold, Allen and Mayfield all turn out to be serviceable QB's, and guys like Goff, Mahomes and those younger guys continue to develop and play well, you will now have a league where 65% of the teams have a QB who can get you to the playoffs. This is the only way this changes. If there continues to be a dearth of QB talent, their salaries will continue to rise, supply and demand.

If you have a league where a decent QB can be had for say, 12 million dollars a year, things would be much better as far as the salary cap goes and parity. Instead Jimmy Garoppolo will make 42 million dollars in 2018 because a guy named Case Keenum was an MVP candidate for majority of the season.
 
Merrith

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Sadre Spinegnawer said:
I agree. But this indicates to me, the sport is broken. I'm not knowledgeable enough about the sport I pretend to know the solution, but when one player in one (and only one) position can turn your team into a contender -- especially in a mass team sport like football! -- something is wrong.

It would be equivalent to if in baseball a pitcher made all the difference. Pitchers are central, but they do not seal the deal in baseball. Football needs to figure out how to make QB's less of the be all end all of a team. because let me tell you, it gets boring. Cleveland sports radio is basically all day, "What should we do about the QB position?"

That is a sign of a sport out of balance.

edit: funny idea. How about the NFL impose a QB rotation system? Every team has 3 QB's, so make it so that each can only play every third game?

I know that is stupid ridiculous, but really, this QB-centric deal needs to change.
Click to expand...

If the same pitcher pitched everyday, it would be pretty much the same thing. Although really...pitching does seal the deal in baseball most of the time.

QB only offensive player to touch the ball on virtually every play.
 
Jozu

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The QB has always been very important, as they have enormous influence on the outcome of the game, but these ridiculous QB contracts are a fairly recent phenomena.

Like I said before it started to get out of control with Sam Bradford. Remember when running backs used to get huge contracts? Corner backs? That wasnt that long ago.
 
Ameraves

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Clearly the Jags don't really want to win.

That defense is going to go to waste through these Bortles years.
 
Merrith

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Ameraves said:
Clearly the Jags don't really want to win.

That defense is going to go to waste through these Bortles years.
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Thought Bortles played pretty well against Steelers and Patriots. Had a very good stretch during the season too. His problem is consistency...but having that defense and run game should help.

Also don't sleep on him not having his receivers going down hurt as much (hopefully) next year.
 
zombiewizardhawk

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Quarterbacks get half of the offensive production while running backs also compete with tight ends and receivers and other running backs for the second half of the offensive production equation (ignoring the offensive line part of things). They'll always be able to command higher pay rates due to this.

I do agree it's getting pretty ridiculous, though.
 
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I don't think Bortles is all that bad, I also don't think he is all that good. The only reason they lost a superbowl last year was purely coaching.
 
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