A Song of Ice and Fire (Released Spoilers)

chaos

chaos

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Yeah I will be absolutely shocked if the show doesn't expand on the circumstances surrounding his death.
 
Tuco

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Yeah, especially since Tywin has carried seasons 3 and 4. Where as in the books he was just a plot device to build Tyrion, Jaime and Cersei's story.
 
Jait

Jait

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You're right about his acting carrying a lot of the show, certainly in his scenes. But to nitpick a little, both him and (later) his brother ran the kingdom really well, and I think there's a lot to the ideas if Tyrion didn't kill him then Varys or the Viper/Dorne certainly would have. He kind of advanced the plot of everyone around him without stealing the show in the books.
 
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dolaan_sl

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There was a chapter when Varys was taking Tyrion to the fancy whore house they stowed Shae in. They were entering through secret entrances and Tyrion asks something like "why is there a secret entrance?" and Varys says that is because another Hand of the King needed a discrete entrance. Since Tywin was Hand for 30+ I just assumed it was for him. Sorry I cant remember the exacts but I am rereading the series again now because I believe I am having trouble keeping the book and series separate at times.
 
Arch

Arch

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dolaan_sl said:
There was a chapter when Varys was taking Tyrion to the fancy whore house they stowed Shae in. They were entering through secret entrances and Tyrion asks something like "why is there a secret entrance?" and Varys says that is because another Hand of the King needed a discrete entrance. Since Tywin was Hand for 30+ I just assumed it was for him. Sorry I cant remember the exacts but I am rereading the series again now because I believe I am having trouble keeping the book and series separate at times.
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Didn't Tyrion have a quip or thought during that scene expressing his disbelief that Jon Arryn would come to the brothel?
 
Noodleface

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That was the most worrying to me as well. Not sure what they base 23% off of though as I don't think he has publicly disclosed how far along he is.
 
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mimirswell_sl

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dolaan_sl said:
There was a chapter when Varys was taking Tyrion to the fancy whore house they stowed Shae in. They were entering through secret entrances and Tyrion asks something like "why is there a secret entrance?" and Varys says that is because another Hand of the King needed a discrete entrance. Since Tywin was Hand for 30+ I just assumed it was for him. Sorry I cant remember the exacts but I am rereading the series again now because I believe I am having trouble keeping the book and series separate at times.
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Its from Tyrion III, a Clash of Kings. You pretty much have it exact but this particular hand needed it discreet due to his "honor". Tywin is a probable candidate.

chaos_sl said:
But with Tyrion he gets all uppity about sexual morality? I don't so much find it hard to believe that he would bang her, anything is possible, I find it more hard to believe that it just makes perfect sense to you in context of the history we know of Tywin.
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I think we have good reason to understand the context of this actually. Tyrion fell in love with whores (Tysha and then Shae). This act is unforgivable because of Tytos Lannister (Tywin's father) who publicly shamed the whole Lannister name due to his overt affection for his mistress/whore. It's quite unclear that Tywin has an actual problem with the use of whores in general, just with loving them. His use of Shae herself is a bit odd but I think his general use of whores (discreetly) is pretty easy to understand.
 
LiquidDeath

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mimirswell_sl said:
I think we have good reason to understand the context of this actually. Tyrion fell in love with whores (Tysha and then Shae). This act is unforgivable because of Tytos Lannister (Tywin's father) who publicly shamed the whole Lannister name due to his overt affection for his mistress/whore. It's quite unclear that Tywin has an actual problem with the use of whores in general, just with loving them. His use of Shae herself is a bit odd but I think his general use of whores (discreetly) is pretty easy to understand.
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Tysha was not, in fact, a whore. She was just a commoner. Tywin refused to believe any girl could love Tyrion just for himself and instead believed she was just a gold digger. He told Tyrion she was a whore because in his mind she was a gold-digging whore, but she was definitely not one by trade. You're point still stands, though, that the whole situation was still unacceptable in Tywin's eyes because of the history with his father.
 
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mimirswell_sl

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LiquidDeath_sl said:
Tysha was not, in fact, a whore. She was just a commoner. Tywin refused to believe any girl could love Tyrion just for himself and instead believed she was just a gold digger. He told Tyrion she was a whore because in his mind she was a gold-digging whore, but she was definitely not one by trade. You're point still stands, though, that the whole situation was still unacceptable in Tywin's eyes because of the history with his father.
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Yeah, I was not being particularly clear and was speaking from the context of Tywin. Tytos Lannister's mistress was also not a whore and merely common born yet Cersei recalls her being treated as a "common whore" by Tywin when he rose to power. I think for Tywin, the difference is minimal, perhaps to the point of not existing when it comes to his family. I mean the guy refuses to address Tysha as anything other than a whore up until death.
 
Olscratch

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Show-Tywin is north of a decade older than Book-Tywin and in a lot worse shape. Perhaps shae's just his bed warmer.
 
Lenas

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GRRM's editor did a Q&A today and I found a lot of it interesting:Q&A with George R.R. Martin Editor, Anne Groell

Do you think it will take GRRM more then 7 books to finish ASOIAF?

I begin to wonder-though 7 is what we currently have under contract. I remember when he called me, years and years back, to confess that his little trilogy was.well.no longer a trilogy. He predicted four books. I said Seven Books for Seven Kingdoms. Then he said five books. I said Seven Books for Seven Kingdoms. Then he went to six. I said. Well, you get it. Finally, we were on the same page. Seven Books for Seven Kingdoms. Good. Only, as I recently learned while editing THE WORLD OF ICE AND FIRE (another awesome thing you must buy when it comes out!), there are really technically eight kingdoms, all having to do with who has annexed what when Aegon the Conqueror landed in Westeros. So, maybe eight books for Seven Kingdoms would be okay.Also, he has promised me that, when he finally wraps this great beast us, I can publish the five page letter outlining the bare bones of the "trilogy."
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Another interesting part is that different people know the different endings to character arcs. D&D know the whole outline, the editor knows Bran's ending, and a comic author knows Tyrion's.

From what you've read about The Winds of Winter so far, and, without spoiling anything, how good do you think the book is compared to the others in the series?

It's amazing. In fact, when I first read the partial back in 2013, I immediately wrote George an impassioned plea to please not let the show get out ahead of him. I can't predict what will happen from here, but I definitely want his version to be my first version. And I think a lot of you want that, too. His vision started this; I very much ant his vision to end it, too.
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Dandai

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How long was it between when he announced he was finished with Dance and when it hit shelves? Like 6 months, right? If we don't hear anything by October, there's no way we're getting Winds before season 5.

PS: Fuck that editor for hyping up a book we won't see for so long
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Brando

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His editor has read a partial of Winds of Winter just last year, yeah 2020 it is then......
 
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Hootie

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I think just guessing from his previous writing style that George is setting up Dany to be the main antagonist in the last book. Think about it, she increasingly is becoming more and more like the ruthless rulers she professes to hate. The tyrannical nature of the previous Targarayens is not hidden at all. I can see the White Walkers as being the supposed climax, but then the twist in the last book is everyone teaming up to take her out. Perhaps we will have Arya being the one who takes her out.

Up to this point the whole storyline seems to be about how Littlefinger and Varys are responsible for EVERYTHING!
Oh well can't wait till it comes out.
 
Falstaff

Falstaff

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I could buy the theory that Dany could be an antagonist, but I don't think main antagonist. I don't think there will be a "main antagonist" at all. Martin does a good job of making 90% of the characters very gray.
 
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