Actually playing Starcraft 2

How is cannon rush terrible? It is literally the best response a Protoss can do off FFE if the Zerg hatch firsts. You can sim city the pylon/cannons so you will probably get the hatch and at worst trade cost effective against lings.

Let's not give silver players that much credit though. You know they aren't scouting me out and then deciding to cannon rush. They're just doing it for a quick win.

It isn't that hard. FFE is pretty mapped out. If there is a hatch they cannon rush. I mean yeah you go into a game thinking you'll 2gate proxy but cannon rush off FFE vs hatch first isn't exactly logic that is outside the silver league grasp.

There are only a handful of proxy spots in most maps for 2gate. It takes maybe 10 seconds combined to scout them with your initial scout. If you are demanding to go hatch first then send your drone a tad earlier to scout these locations prior to building the hatch.

Although I have no idea why we're discussing this niche build that is by and large terrible.

If someone in silver league is using ffe they are playing equally greedy and I would immediately throw down a roach warren upon scouting it and two base roach/ling all in and laugh as a silver lvl player tries to hold 9 roaches and lings with 1-2 sentries, 1-2 stalkers, and a zealot.

Not even sure what the argument is about, was just mad I lost to it so was wondering if anything besides scouting it would help. Not sure what's going on now!

Yep, already adjusted my build too. It's working too!

Zaphid_sl said:

Then they fucking stop it, because people don't like losing to the same shit over and over again and eventually figure it out, unless they are named Idra

Your arguments make less and less sense

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Exactly, but by the time ppl learn how to stop that push he'll no longer be in silver league.

I'm just going along with the conversation, I'm not the one who brought up cannon rushes and lord only knows how ffe came up! Is it my argument that is failing when you say a silver player shouldn't hatch first but ffe is brought up when discussing silver league play?

Edit - And for the record I never said a silver league player should be going hatch first either just to be clear.

Because yall are talking as if hatch first isn't safe when it is a much safer build than ffe, particularly in hots.

Not sure what stats you want, silver league statistics on win percentage of hatch first zergs against ffe protoss? But congrats on picking on the first slightly opinionated statement I have made.

So finally bought hots and did a few matches. Holy fuck did the skill lvl jump. Left WoL a while ago in diamond, now am in silver facing dudes with 100+ apm on average who seems to know what they do. Or its prolly me who doesnt know what to do. Am still going tank bio in tvz and bio medvac in tvp and never using mines / hellbats since i have no idea when its a good time to invest in that. Time to go watch mvp play a few games...

Hatch first is a great way to shut down 2 base timings at the risk of just losing to a sneaky probe. So it's a risky build, pool first basically protects you from all cheese but makes those 2 base timing defenses really tight.

In silver all their 2 base timing attacks are going to suck, so just make a pool first.

Also yeah Rombo, getting back into diamond is going to be a little tricky for me as well. Haven't nearly researched enough HOTS, but my zvz is still decent so I'm just stuck at the plat/diamond borderline.

Rombo_sl said:

So finally bought hots and did a few matches. Holy fuck did the skill lvl jump. Left WoL a while ago in diamond, now am in silver facing dudes with 100+ apm on average who seems to know what they do. Or its prolly me who doesnt know what to do. Am still going tank bio in tvz and bio medvac in tvp and never using mines / hellbats since i have no idea when its a good time to invest in that. Time to go watch mvp play a few games...

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TvP is basically the same as WoL but you no longer gasless expand. For the most part the current meta revolves around rax/gas on 12, get a reaper, reactor the rax, expand, ebay, rax and then deviates from there. Since you really have no reasonable way of punishing a quick Nexus it is best to just admit that and greedily take upgrades.

TvZ is mostly using Marine/Marauder/Medivac/Widow Mine (aka biomine aka 4M). Although classic Marine/Tank/Medivac is recently becoming popular again mostly because Roach/Hydra is becoming popular as a staple build. The tanks also make a really good defense against very popular Roach + Bane all-in off 2base. However I still find biomine superior. I generally find I can punish the roach/hydra player with early medivac drops and take a superior upgrade advantage while keeping their eco in check then I just parade push w/ biomine. How you get to the end game is a bit different. The most popular Korean meta is CC first on high ground. I don't like the build so I don't personally use it.

TvT is kind of all over the place at the moment. The "standard" build is 12rax/15gas 2marines -> reactor -> factory swap then get 4 or so hellions and then deviate. Hellbat drops are also very popular in the matchup at the moment (pretty much the build as I said --full guide herehttp://imbabuilds.com/hots-terran/ho...-hellbat-drop/) as is mech in general.

Thanks Tenks, what about hellbats in tvp or tvz? I did a gimmick game agaisnt a zerg earlier and just went mass hellbats, rines and mines. Was a fun win but i doubt it was effective.
Am also getting trapped pants down in tvz with what seems to be super fast ultras. I barely get a 2 bases eco running and they stream ultras like theyre zerglings. I actually said '' wtf'' out loud irl.