ADD/ADHD

Chris

Potato del Grande
18,233
-315
Some background:
I was diagnosed with ADHD as a kid.

At some point, I decided that I needed to stop taking it entirely, and did. I also quitsmoking potat this time.
I've worked with a good few (10 or more) ADHD kids and I'm convinced that it either doesn't exist or that it is significantly mis/overdiagnosed and there are a few mythical real cases.

I do a little test on them to amuse myself when they present symptoms:
a) What time did you go to bed last night?
b) What did you eat for breakfast?
c) How many sugar/caffine drinks have you had today?

I usually get the full call of duty until 2am, no breakfast/sweets and 1 high caffine, high sugar drink with more planned for later. Some of the ones with the worst symptoms were doing pot. I've never had less than two of these as an answer from an ADHD kid. I wonder as I type this if I should also ask them what they eat for other meals and how many transfat/processed/mcdonalds answers I would get - they are never fat but they do run around a lot so I genuinely don't know.



Now you may well be one in a million and have a real condition, but first please think about what other things you are doing which could possibly make it difficult for you to concentrate. Especially intake of caffine, sugar and drugs.



Personally I feel a hell of a lot better when I go to bed at a decent time (ironically I'm typing this past my bedtime), have something to eat in the morning, cut sugar out of my diet and drink caffine free drinks. I had depression for years and I only ever have success beating it when I do these things and also get some excercise, I feel worse when I confort eat and start with the coffee and chocolate. So I think that modern life is fucking us up and you guys need to figure out what exactly about it is hurting you.
 

Homsar

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
8,673
7,488
I agree that 8 out of 10 people abuse it but after seeing the changes in me and seeing all of my test results over the last year its pretty incredible. It does annoy the hell out of me when its abused which is with people wanting to get coked out essentially. When I take my medicine I get sedated and helps me sleep a long with heart rate dropping ect, anyone that is on the medication and is hyper is full of shit. When you take an amphetanine and your heart rate drops it says a lot
 

eXarc

Trakanon Raider
1,605
502
Have any of you tried buying a lot of books about Zen and then throwing them against walls, burning them and tearing them to pieces?


Talk about Zen therapy.
 

Grez

Trakanon Raider
946
514
I was diagnosed 5 months ago, blew my fucking mind. I've struggled pretty hard at university and along comes a little pill that turns me into an intellectual god, relatively speaking, for ~12 hours. All that time wasted, it's scary shit. ADHD sucks.
 

Troll_sl

shitlord
1,703
6
I've worked with a good few (10 or more) ADHD kids and I'm convinced that it either doesn't exist or that it is significantly mis/overdiagnosed and there are a few mythical real cases.

I do a little test on them to amuse myself when they present symptoms:
a) What time did you go to bed last night?
b) What did you eat for breakfast?
c) How many sugar/caffine drinks have you had today?

I usually get the full call of duty until 2am, no breakfast/sweets and 1 high caffine, high sugar drink with more planned for later. Some of the ones with the worst symptoms were doing pot. I've never had less than two of these as an answer from an ADHD kid. I wonder as I type this if I should also ask them what they eat for other meals and how many transfat/processed/mcdonalds answers I would get - they are never fat but they do run around a lot so I genuinely don't know.



Now you may well be one in a million and have a real condition, but first please think about what other things you are doing which could possibly make it difficult for you to concentrate. Especially intake of caffine, sugar and drugs.



Personally I feel a hell of a lot better when I go to bed at a decent time (ironically I'm typing this past my bedtime), have something to eat in the morning, cut sugar out of my diet and drink caffine free drinks. I had depression for years and I only ever have success beating it when I do these things and also get some excercise, I feel worse when I confort eat and start with the coffee and chocolate. So I think that modern life is fucking us up and you guys need to figure out what exactly about it is hurting you.
Sugar has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

Hyperactivity and sugar: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

Yale Scientific Magazine | The Nation Does Sugar Really Make Children Hyper?

CCMR - Ask A Scientist!
 

Chris

Potato del Grande
18,233
-315
Well the first two links do not fully back up what you are suggesting and instead show several contradictory studies.

Maybe it isn't just sugar but also the other things I said such as bad diet and late nights together which a scientific study may not pick up on since they only want to test one variable. It's common sense stuff that things which give you energy and help you to stay awake are going to make you want to move more if you take them what you don't need them... but sure join the ranks of retarded parents giving their ADHD kids energy drinks to help them concentrate. I've seen these kids running around on tables while eating yet more candy.
 

Pancreas

Vyemm Raider
1,124
3,818
I was first diagnosed with ADHD in my sophmore year of high school. The diagnosis came from a Psychiatrist I had been asked to see as a result of my poor performance in school. My highschool transcript is abysmal. In a class of 255 kids, I was ranked 253rd. I think one of the kids ranked lower than me died his freshman year. The only two grades I got was a rare A+ or the more common incomplete / F, there was no middle ground.

My performance in school hadn't always been so poor....
(What follows is my friggin life's story, so only the interested need open it.)

Grade School
My first real school, beyond kindergarten, was a lab school for the teaching program at the college in town. There were lots of student teachers taking a crack out our ripe young minds. Early on they said I was smart. They took me out of normal classes frequently to work with special teachers and projects. They had me run through all kinds of neurological evaluation tests. However, I moved around a lot as a kid. The next school I went to after this was run by a music ministry coordinator out of a church basement. Yeah, religion played a major role in my upbringing. This "school" involved sitting at a desk and working on lesson plan booklets while some white haired maniac strummed out country rock versions of popular hymns on his guitar.

Thankfully that didn't last long. After the Christians it was on to the Catholics. I went to a catholic school for two years. One of the nuns caught wind that I was some evangelical devil child and decided to try and humiliate me every chance she had. She actively discouraged any of the other children from socializing with me. She warned the children to always accept communion or else they might end up going to hell like me. However, despite this woman being a science teacher and one of the judges, I still managed to win first place in the science fair that year. She was pretty pissed afterwards, which was awesome.

Anyways another move and another school later I was clear of the fires of damnation. This is when I first really started to experience academic difficulties. It mostly came in the form of failure to complete homework and assignments. I would do great in class and still did very well on tests, but focusing at home or after school was becoming a serious challenge. The homework would pile up, the project due date would get nearer. There would be this made flurry to try and get something together at the last minute, and when the day came to actually hand it in, I would skip school out of shame of having failed to complete the assignment. Pretty retarded defense mechanism in hind sight, but that's what happened.

Anyways on to high school...

High School
So, despite not having passed several classes, and being very weak in math and grammar. I was pushed through middle school and went on to high school. Here nothing changed, in fact it got worse. Whenever I was in class I would do great with participating in discussions and grasping the material and frequently got the highest score on tests (which made some teachers suspect me of cheating). When it came time to hand in assignments I would simply try to avoid eye contact or try to be in the bathroom. Eventually the teachers and students simply didn't bother asking me for homework.

Home life was a bunch of not fun at this time. My mother was a divorced single parent, and this whole time period made her crazy with frustration. She did her best, but she was too soft on me. There had been no real effort to instill any sense of regiment or schedule or anything resembling time management. I was in complete denial and evasion mode at this point as well, so actually taking responsibility for the shitty life I had, was not a concept I was familiar with.

So life moves forward, the school is like... uh you failed every class for the last two semesters, and a series of meetings takes place where I am asked over and over again. "What do we need to do to help you?" To which I had only one answer, "I don't know." Eventually the Psychiatrist is called in, he diagnosis me with ADHD and depression. We proceed to run down a list of medications and I experience more side effects than I can remember, literally, I was blacking out a lot. I remember I was on Dextroamphetamine and Zoloft at one point... I don't remember the rest. Well I do remember the first day waking up and sitting in front of the T.V. and just kinda slipping into a zone. It felt like maybe 20 minutes had gone by with me just starring at the T.V. while it was off. Then my mom came home from work. I had been there for almost 6 hours straight. Eventually it was revealed that this psychiatrist guy was a nut job, he ended up threatening one of his patients, and lost his license. I had decided to stop taking all of the medications on my own a while before that though. My buddy was so depressed when I flushed all my pills, he kept talking about how much money he could have sold them for. I probably could have made some serious cash selling the "candy over the sink", but I feel I would have to be a pretty shitty person to capitalize on other people's poor choices.

Another part of this intervention had me go through a rigorous set of Neuro-psych evaluations. I recognized a few of the basic tests from my grade school days. I recently found the results of those tests when I was going though some old paperwork. It listed several recommendations, provided by the people administering the tests, in terms of what accommodations could be made for me. Basically it turns out I am really smart but have a learning disability beyond simple ADHD that I had been compensating for. This resulted in some surprisingly low scores in certain areas given the levels I achieved in others. Most of the areas I scored low in however were related to memorized systems, such as math and grammar and not comprehension or problem solving. Looking back and realizing I hadn't passed a math or English class since 5th grade when I was taking the test could be an indicator of those scores.

Anyways, recommendations along the lines of alternative methods of handing in homework, dictation into a tape recorder ect. were given. The school responds by taking me out of normal classes, and placing me in the remedial room, down in the basement, with the developmentally challenged kids. There I was to complete the huge backlog of assignments and projects that had piled up during my delinquency. Complete those and I would get credit for those classes. I don't think I did a single one of them. I sat at the desk in the back they had given me for all of 5 minutes. Then I got up and started talking with the teachers in the remedial center. I would carry on conversations with them, and probably acted as a huge distraction, but they didn't seem to care. There were like 3 teachers per kid down there, so there was plenty of people to talk to. I would draw pictures on the chalk board. I ran a betting game for the teachers for a while to see who could guess tomorrows high and low temperatures for various regions. We got several newspapers down there and I would keep track of results and listed out the statistics on who was the most accurate guesser. basically a million and one things that had nothing to do with those assignments.

Eventually I stopped going to this room altogether. I would show up around 10 to noon each day. Wait for my friends to get out of class and we'd go to lunch or leave the school and hang out somewhere. Then when they went back to class I either went home, or hung out in the library and read whatever till the end of the day and then we'd go hang out some more. I did this for about one whole school year, with some prolonged absences thrown in. At the end of that year I dropped out. I got my GED right before I moved out of the area.

I had set up an appointment for what I thought was a time to take the GED. Apparently the adviser at this adult education center wanted me to take an assessment test, and then enroll me in a 6 month preparatory course before taking the actual test. I told the guy that I was moving in a matter of days and either I took the test today, or I didn't, his choice. He said there wasn't enough time left in the day for me to complete all 5 modules or 6 or however many there were. I said, just hand me the first one, when I finish it, give me the next and we'll do that until you have to go home. So he did, and I finished them all with like 40 minutes to spare and got near perfect scores on all of them. Not the most impressive thing in the world, but given where I was back then, I am still pretty proud of that.

College
After high school I took some real shit jobs, doing maintenance work and scrapping junk until I joined the field crew for a surveyor. I did that for 4 years full time before deciding I wanted to go to college. Now this was a major step. Up to this point I thought I was some fuckin retard who couldn't remember to brush his teeth without a sticky note on the mirror (That had to be refreshed periodically or else the note just blended into the background). So I decided to go and get a surveying degree. I found a community college in my area that had a program. To enter they ask that you take a simple proficiency exam to see what level for each subject you were prepared to take and if you needed any prep courses. I was nervous and broke out the old GED books to refresh myself. I did really really well on this test. Again, not the most impressive thing in the world, but I think if I had done poorly on that test I may have just given up altogether as it would have just confirmed my belief that I was not very good when it came to school.

I did very well in the community college. I ended up tutoring the other guys in my program for food. They would buy me food and I would break things down for them to understand. My experience in the field made the schooling much much easier. But there was still lots of home work and projects, which I found myself completing this time around. Something was different, I was finding a confidence in my abilities I didn't have before and I understood why I was in school. It was to help me get licensed, and it was also costing me money. So I showed up on time (barely) every day and managed to complete 100% of the work. Although a lot of the work came down to the wire. So by normal standards I was barely making deadlines; by my standards I was doing infinitely better.

The two year program came to a close and I ended up transferring to a state university to acquire a Bachelors in my field. It wasn't ivy league, but it still required more attention and focus than I had experienced up to that point. However I had an amazing community college professor and I seriously rank his instruction and program higher than what I experienced at the university level. Anyways, going form a school of 1200 to 12,000 was an interesting shift. Deadlines were still tight, but I ended up transferring with a good friend I made at the community college. This helped immensely as I had a default study partner. Having someone that relies on me to help get something done is a massive motivator. I hate letting people down. Also, by this point I was getting pretty good at dissecting a course and figuring out exactly what was required to get an A. It's amazing how much fluff can be ignored.

I ended up joining a couple of organizations and clubs and participated in some student competitions for surveying at the national level both years I was there. We didn't even place the first year (which I thought was BS
tongue.png
) and took 2nd place the second year. Those projects forced me to really kick some habits with procrastination, but it seems like no matter how much time you give to something like that, there is ALWAYS last minute crap to clean up.

So I kinda blazed a trail 3 of the 4 semesters I was there, but that last semester I ended up slacking off. I know I could have done better, but some old tendencies crept up again. Some call it senioritis. All I know is that I could have easily aced one class I got a C in if I had held myself to it. It was just a lot of basic assignments in a low level course I was doing to finish a minor on my degree. And yet it was my lowest grade outside of high school. If the class had been harder, I would have done better I think.

What I have learned so far(skip to this part for a quick read)
  • I can focus very intensely on something for hours on end IF I find it engaging. If I don't think it's interesting, it becomes next to invisible.
  • Time management is a skill that can be learned just like any other. However, for normal people it's like anything else, just takes some practice. For someone with ADHD it's like a paraplegic person learning to maneuver around. It takes lots of effort and dedication and practice and can be really discouraging and seem impossible at times, but makes their lives so much better once they achieve it. I am still not 100% there yet.
  • Medication is only as good as the person who is monitoring it. Doctors that suck at follow up and keeping tabs on patients should not be allowed to write scripts. Maybe medication would have helped me, I will never know because my experience was so fucked up and disgusting I almost developed a phobia of pills. I don't take medication now, and I would like it to stay that way, but I am not blind to the possibility they can do good things for some people who really need help just getting enough control to even start improving their lives.
  • Teaching yourself how to get started is really a thing. The BIGGEST challenge with anything I am doing, is just taking that first fuckin step out the door. If I can get past that and get into the thick of it, I will stay on it. This is different for everyone, but really it comes down to just attacking those mental blocks. Conditioning yourself to reward yourself AFTER you have started something and not BEFORE is about the best way I can describe it. By rewarding yourself, I mean, going and doing something you are interested in rather than what needs to be done. Be careful about rewarding yourself too early, make sure you have done what you set out to do before stopping.
  • Don't break things into bite sized bits. For normal people, tackling a whole project at once is daunting as hell. I understand breaking something down is very useful for organizing your thoughts and I do that. But in terms of production, if you are doing something you need to do, don't stop till you finish or need a real break. But limit your break if you intend to go back to work, set a timer. The stopping and starting again is agonizing for anyone who has trouble staying on task.
  • Be careful with addicting behavior. At least for me, since I tend to hyper focus on things I like, doing those things to the exclusion of all else becomes a real possibility. If you are having trouble with something in particular, try cutting it out of your life all together. The only a little bit here and there shit never works.
  • Write stuff down. Trying to keep everything in your head is a nightmare sometimes. However, expect to fail at using whatever organizer you first set yourself on. This is incredibly hard for me. I try and simplify my life as much as possible so I don't have to remember tons of things, but keeping a record of appointments and knowing what needs to be done when is critical. Without this information laid out in front of you and consolidated into one format, it's like trying to navigate thousands of miles without a map.
  • Stress exacerbates ADHD. The more stress, the less likely you are to be able to focus on anything. The whole world feels like it is caught up in a twister and everything is just flying away from you. Seek out those sources of stress and destroy them... well avoid them if destroying them would present it's own set of problems. If it's a person that is stressing you out, try and talk with them. Discuss the issues that you are having.
  • Find a good therapist to unravel all of the bullshit that has accumulated because of these problems. Often times ADHD will be a root problem, but quickly get overshadowed by all of the shitty situations that arise from it. A GOOD therapist can help start the process of separating yourself from all of the junk, particularly things associated with low self esteem and depression.
  • Exercising, even at home, is a great way to feel better. Being active helps so much with outlook and stress reduction it should almost be required by law. (Of course that would make it stressful again) These last two really apply to anyone who is feeling down.

Hopefully this embarrassingly long post helps in some way.
 

Homsar

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
8,673
7,488
I skimmed through it since I'm on a phone but very accurate post. Pretty much word for word what I would put from what I read
 

MaulNutz_sl

shitlord
182
3
I do a little test on them to amuse myself when they present symptoms:
a) What time did you go to bed last night?
b) What did you eat for breakfast?
This is probably true a lot of the time but is not going to apply to everyone. In my case I stay up late because I can't sleep (anxiety) and don't eat in the mornings because of nausea (also anxiety)

Wasn't sure where else to put this, tempted to link it in that education thread too.

Why French Kids Dont Have ADHD | Psychology Today
TLDR They dont have a problem with ADHD because children are raised with a great deal of structure in their lives, which is the foundation of ADHD treatment.

For me stimulant medication is life changing. The depression, anxiety, focus, and motivation problems just melt away.
 

moontayle

Golden Squire
4,302
165
It's funny that this thread showed up because I went to a Psychiatrist today to get a scrip for Strattera. Here goes:

It's early 2012 and my wife and I had just gotten my son diagnosed for any mental disorders based upon some behaviors at school and after talking with his Pediatrician. The results were an initial diagnoses of ADHD with a recommendation that the school system start a more comprehensive evaluation for Autism. Since that was going to take a couple of months, we filled the time with a couple of books about ADHD. Once I started reading it was like I had picked up my biography. This was the catalyst for me to set up my own appointment for diagnoses. The result of ADD came back. Not ADHD, just ADD. And based upon the test results it was significant enough to be adversely affecting my life.

Even before the results I kind of figured as much. Like I would walk from one end of the house to do something, like grab a drink, and once I got to the kitchen I wouldn't remember why I'd gone there. With my schoolwork I frequently found myself putting things off until the last minute, or when reading the subject material I'd have to reread paragraphs almost immediately after finishing them because halfway through my mind took a left turn toward something else. This also happened during the online seminars. This is a pattern of behavior that is consistent with just about my entire life as far back as I can remember.

There were some things I could hyper focus on like nothing else, mostly video games, but if I didn't have an interest in it I didn't feel the need to pay all that much attention to it. Along the way there are plenty of half-done projects. My novels are pretty much the exception to the rule but even then my interest is currently sitting near zero so even though there's things I need to take care of, I just can't get myself into the right state of mind to do it. And it's not as simple as just "doing it" with me either. I've tried everything. Reward systems, schedules, routines, you name it. I do regular walking for exercise, my sugar intake is fairly low, my sole frequent narcotic is caffeine through coffee, I don't smoke and I rarely drink. Nothing has worked.

After my diagnoses I talked with my GP and we agreed to give Strattera a try. It worked. It worked so well my family took notice. When we decided to move to WNY and I lost my health insurance, my mother-in-law offered to pay for the pills (which are exceedingly expensive, even on insurance), that's how much of a positive influence it had on my behavior. However, once the scrip ran out, I didn't take steps to secure a new one and over the course of the last 10 months I've slipped into some old habits. So I found a new psychiatrist to see and my ADD is pronounced enough that he noticed it in just the mere 20 minutes we talked about how I had ended up in his office. So I have a new scrip in hand and will get things going again tomorrow.

Side note: My son was diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum so the ADHD is actually something of a side issue compared to that one. He's not extremely bad but we do have to structure things in a certain way to make sure he's set up to succeed. Luckily when we moved into our current house we landed in an amazing school district that has helped him out tremendously.
 

earthfell

Golden Knight of the Realm
730
145
If you are going to start taking medication, I strongly encourage you to take the extended release. I take Vyvanse and it is great. Do know, however, that medication is not the solution. If you are not taking classes or private sessions to improve your habits you are going to develop a dependency. I see the drugs as tools to help facilitate the process of dealing with ADHD, not the solution in and of itself. I like myself when I am not medicated because naturally I am much more relaxed, playful, and creative. The drugs will cause you to zoom in on specific tasks, and in a sense you do become a bit robotic (which is the nature of concentration). But goddamn, when you mix the drugs with a topic or task you are already interested in, you blow non-ADD people out of the water.

Notable side effects of the instant release pills: a huge rush as it hits you all at once, and four hours later an awful awful crash. You usually take these sorts of pills twice a day, and have to juggle them so that the second pill starts working as the other one starts to crash. Also, it gives me raging hard ons, so if you work at home you may find yourself in 3 hour masturbating sessions. It also destroys your appetite, so expect to lose weight.

I have none of those problems with the extended release. It does still kind of make me extra horny though. I've never mentioned this to anyone, so am wondering if maybe this is just me?
 

MaulNutz_sl

shitlord
182
3
If you are going to start taking medication, I strongly encourage you to take the extended release. I take Vyvanse and it is great. Do know, however, that medication is not the solution. If you are not taking classes or private sessions to improve your habits you are going to develop a dependency. I see the drugs as tools to help facilitate the process of dealing with ADHD, not the solution in and of itself. I like myself when I am not medicated because naturally I am much more relaxed, playful, and creative. The drugs will cause you to zoom in on specific tasks, and in a sense you do become a bit robotic (which is the nature of concentration). But goddamn, when you mix the drugs with a topic or task you are already interested in, you blow non-ADD people out of the water.

Notable side effects of the instant release pills: a huge rush as it hits you all at once, and four hours later an awful awful crash. You usually take these sorts of pills twice a day, and have to juggle them so that the second pill starts working as the other one starts to crash. Also, it gives me raging hard ons, so if you work at home you may find yourself in 3 hour masturbating sessions. It also destroys your appetite, so expect to lose weight.

I have none of those problems with the extended release. It does still kind of make me extra horny though. I've never mentioned this to anyone, so am wondering if maybe this is just me?
No you are not alone with the horniness, its fairly common. For me its only seems to be a problem when I'm on the computer.