Adventures with lyrical - buying a business

Tyreny_foh

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Heylel Teomim said:
Thread necro, but whatever.

They"re struggling to make their first check not because the business is failing, but because they didn"t run projections and realize how much money they"d need on hand.
Cash is king. Classic working capital/liquidity crisis.
 

Camerous

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Heylel Teomim said:
My roommate and I are just now getting into serious discussions of opening a bar. We"ve seen some of the obvious pitfalls, and are hoping to avoid the same mistakes. A brewpub is just too expensive, but I have a legal-type friend looking into some other options for me, such as hosting homebrew competitions etc. If we can find ways to factor something like that in, we"ll have tapped into a very large and underserved market..
Well unless your state is vastly different from mine you won"t be able to do it and here is why. You can not distribute or sale alcohol in any place without a license. If you read the license it also says you can"t distribute untaxed alcohol. And since you can"t distribute without a license and the license says you can"t distribute untaxed alcohol you can"t do what you are planning on doing.

Here is how I know this. My best friend and I were going to open a restaurant and pub. My father and grandfather were huge boot leggers back in the 60s and they taught me how to make all kinds of spirits. I was going to actually make the liquor for the bar so we could sale it at a discounted price and still make a killing. I took my plan before the city commerce comity and got approval up to the part where they asked where my spirits were coming from. When I told them my plan they declined my application stating what I just told you.
 

OneofOne

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Not to mention, liquor licenses, being a license to print money, are NOT cheap. Of course it depends where you are, but I just saw one sold in a town of 75k for $300k. That"s a lot of upfront money for nothing but a piece of paper.
 

Candiarie_foh

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Camerous said:
Well unless your state is vastly different from mine you won"t be able to do it and here is why. You can not distribute or sale alcohol in any place without a license. If you read the license it also says you can"t distribute untaxed alcohol. And since you can"t distribute without a license and the license says you can"t distribute untaxed alcohol you can"t do what you are planning on doing.

Here is how I know this. My best friend and I were going to open a restaurant and pub. My father and grandfather were huge boot leggers back in the 60s and they taught me how to make all kinds of spirits. I was going to actually make the liquor for the bar so we could sale it at a discounted price and still make a killing. I took my plan before the city commerce comity and got approval up to the part where they asked where my spirits were coming from. When I told them my plan they declined my application stating what I just told you.
It"s the same in KY, except I found out with a 5 minute call to the ABC to find out if we could host brew and view nights at a bar and have people bring homebrew. Can"t do it in a place with an alcohol license or the license could be revoked. It"s shitty you got that far before someone let you in on that.

Did you try to find out what it would take to become a legal distillery?
 

Eomer

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There"s ways around it, I"m sure. Isn"t the Oregon coast chock full of brew pubs? There"s at least one chain of them in Alberta (Brewster"s, how original) and a lot of smaller ones, none of whom sell their beer outside their establishments. I"m sure they just pay tax on the liquor at time of sale, it doesn"t seem all that complicated to me.

edit: misunderstood, homebrew things won"t work unless the business is used for other purposes during "regular" business. It certainly couldn"t be the primary purpose of the business. Anyone can host homebrew get togethers, provided that nothing is actually bought or sold. You could trade with another brewer I guess, so long as no cash is changing hands.
 

Shonuff

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Tyreny said:
Cash is king. Classic working capital/liquidity crisis.
Yes it is. There"s nothing like bringing in 30k in sales in a week, but only receiving $300. Our customers tend to pay within 60 days, so when we really get busy, our accounts receivable balloon, expenses go through the roof, and cash on hand goes down. Within the first few months of me buying the business, we had a spike of business, and I was concerned I"d need to borrow money until customers paid us. And the phone was ringing off the hook with customers.You can go broke making money.Our customer default rate is like 1/10 of a percent of sales, so its not bad, they just pay late. There"s nothing like having one week of cash to operate on, while being owed 40-50k.

As far as an update, after addbacks, the company has probably made in the mid six figures CYTD. Its a far cry from 300k last year, but in general, its been rough for our industry. It was the coldest winter in 20 years, and people stopped going outside to see what work they needed. Factor out the worse than normal winter and its been a good year.

When we got busier in the spring, we ran some interviews for hourly laborer, and I intereviewed six other owners of companies in our industry that had gone under. I saw alot of my small to mid size competitors coming to me for jobs to make $11 an hour! They didn"t even ask for a manager spot. So we are thankful to be even a little bit profitable. All the bills are paid. One common denominator that they said why they went under was that the phone had stopped ringing.

That reminded me of Peter Drucker saying that getting customers is the most important thing, everything is detail work. Since I saw our competitor"s starving from not getting the phone to ring, I"ve doubled our advertising.I just put up my first billboard a few weeks ago.When I look at what we are billing and in two days see that there is $1800 coming from a mailer, 1300 from the internet and 790 from a newspaper, I am very thankful. These are all new initiatives I"ve put in place, and its all plus business.

Typically, December is when we start to slow down, but I am hoping that a little bit of hard work and providence will make for a not so bad winter. We"ve got our new things we are doing for advertising. We"ve taken care of every customer complaint, by either doing re-work or discounting the job to make them happy. The business is very active in the community, and I"ve given away 1-2k a month to different charities. As one customer said it, they"d spend more money with us than a competitor, because we were very reputable.

So the takeaways from this post:

1-Realize that there are ups and downs in business, and make sure you have enough working capital to go a few months. Before I bought my business, I made sure I had a 150k credit line.

2-Know your numbers.For me, since I had someone else"s history, I knew that winter could be rough, so I had to have money put back. I also know how much cash I am burning through, and where I am at profit-wise every morning (do your own books yourself if you have time - QuickBooks is a life saver).

3-Don"t downplay the importance of marketing your business.One of the main things that seperates my company from others with the same equipment is that we are more aggressive in advertising. From my time in sales, I know its all a numbers game. We are going to close 50% of the people we talk to. So the best way to increase sales is to talk to more people. The competitors I interviewed were just relying on word of mouth, that"s not enough. Find something that you do differently than the competition (and is something that customers value. For us, we"ve been around for 50 years, have a rep for treating people right, are fully insured (95% of my competitors don"t have it), and we handle alot of big and famous commercial contracts for some of the corporations in the area. In the last week, we just did a job for a Kohl"s and a Lowes. So in a pinch, I can be lower than my competitors on resedential, because we have big customers who cover our fixed costs. I know in our last update, I said we were doing 98% resedential, but our commercial customers have come back in full force. Bottom line is that name dropping doesn"t hurt when trying to close customers, and when you can say that these large local entities use you, customers see you as a cut above the competition.

Speaking of sales, if you plan on running your own business, like Robert Kiyosaki said, spend some time in a sales job.Believe me, later on, you"ll thank me for this. In your business, you are selling yourself and your business, and you need to pick up those selling skills.

4-Take care of customers, no matter what.The golden rule applies. One of my largest competitors approached me to get me to buy him out. But some of my employees have friends that work for him, and they tell me stories of the owner threatening to punch customers out if they complain LOL. At the end of the day, we try to make customers happy, even if it costs money. Most of our business still comes from repeat-referral, and I"ve had times where we fixed a customer problem, and then that guy has sent is ten customers over the course of a year. Reputation is everything.

I can"t stress these things enough, especially in this economy. You need to run very efficiently and your people do also. The competition is too willing to do jobs at a price that is below their cost (eventually that puts them under), but you do have to deal with that environment.
 

Heylel

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Candiarie said:
It"s the same in KY, except I found out with a 5 minute call to the ABC to find out if we could host brew and view nights at a bar and have people bring homebrew. Can"t do it in a place with an alcohol license or the license could be revoked. It"s shitty you got that far before someone let you in on that.
This is what I"m concerned about, and what I"m having to look into in Georgia. I suspect it"s similar, but there are still ways to market to this crowd while skirting that law.

For one thing, a brewpub license is fairly inexpensive relative to all the other costs of a bar. That would allow us to brew on the premises and sell in draft form. What we"re then considering is something like a homebrew "beer of the month" club, whereby we run a contest and then use the winner"s recipe brewed by us, on the premises, and served in the restaurant. As best I can tell, that skirts the problem as we"re still paying taxes and operating under our brewpub license. We"re just crowdsourcing the recipes.

The question then becomes where to host any homebrew events. I could swear I"ve seen it done in bars around here before. In fact, I know for certain a very high visibility bar in Decatur had a "mystery beer" on their menu from an up and coming (as in not yet in operation) brewery last time I was there. There"s simply no way that could have come through a proper distributor.
 

Candiarie_foh

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Heylel Teomim said:
This is what I"m concerned about, and what I"m having to look into in Georgia. I suspect it"s similar, but there are still ways to market to this crowd while skirting that law.

For one thing, a brewpub license is fairly inexpensive relative to all the other costs of a bar. That would allow us to brew on the premises and sell in draft form. What we"re then considering is something like a homebrew "beer of the month" club, whereby we run a contest and then use the winner"s recipe brewed by us, on the premises, and served in the restaurant. As best I can tell, that skirts the problem as we"re still paying taxes and operating under our brewpub license. We"re just crowdsourcing the recipes.

The question then becomes where to host any homebrew events. I could swear I"ve seen it done in bars around here before. In fact, I know for certain a very high visibility bar in Decatur had a "mystery beer" on their menu from an up and coming (as in not yet in operation) brewery last time I was there. There"s simply no way that could have come through a proper distributor.
Yeah, at least here they told me without equivocation that homebrew in a bar at all (I believe the phrase was any alcohol not sold by the bar) was grounds to lose the license. This isn"t a brewery though, just a music venue with a beer license. It should be easy enough to google the Georgia ABC number and call them up. Post what you find out.
 

Camerous

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Candiarie said:
It"s the same in KY, except I found out with a 5 minute call to the ABC to find out if we could host brew and view nights at a bar and have people bring homebrew. Can"t do it in a place with an alcohol license or the license could be revoked. It"s shitty you got that far before someone let you in on that.

Did you try to find out what it would take to become a legal distillery?
Yes we did and we would have had to spend tens of thousands of more dollars to do it to code of both the county and state so we said fuck it. It would have been different if I hadn"t factored in the fact we were going to be saving so much money with me making the liquor myself into our 5 year plan but with the 200 - 300% markup on liquor we just didn"t have enough starting capital to do what we wanted to. The building became all wrong and a multitude of other things that just don"t spring to mind now. was just a colossal waste of our time in the end because of that.
 

Shonuff

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So as an update, Winter wasn"t so bad, we only lost 40k (compared to 100k the year before). Looking at history, the company has lost 30k on average in the Winter, and is profitable the rest of the year. March was on track to be up over 100% than last March, but we lost five days of work in the last week and a half to rain-outs. We were still up about 50% (did 23k in sales last march, 36k this year). Its just annoying that we would have done almost 50k in March, but had way more rain-outs than we wanted.

My foreman is no longer with the company. He was acting crazy, eyes were all bloodshot, and was doing things like trying to break into my Secretary"s apartment at night. From what the other guys are telling me, he was on cocaine. Apparently, he"d been using it for years, but started using it heavier. The dumbass was dumb enough to send lewd texts to the Secretary, and she could have used them as proof and sued for sexual harrassment and won half a million plus. We parted ways on Jan 3rd. Its a shame to lose an employee with 12 years experience, but he was so coked out of his mind that he couldn"t do his job. He ended up taking four guys with him to go start his own company, and is now finding out that it isn"t as easy as he thought it was. The guys aren"t getting hours under him, and he cant qualify for bigger jobs because insurance is about 30k a year. He"s also tried to steal some of my customers, but hasn"t had any success in doing that because he has no insurance or equipment. I like my new Foreman better, no substance abuse issues.

We put up a billboard in November, just to try to measure if it would add business. It is an area where 100k people drive by it a day that are our target customer (affluent people living near the lake, and right next to a private golf course). Believe it or not, sales are up 50% since the day we put up the billboard.

I am debating putting up another near where all the corporate offices in the city are, but its hard to track sales directly to billboard. People see our billboard, then go to the phone book. We ask them where they heard about us, they say the phone book. We are paying $600 a month for one board, we can only directly attribute about $2500 to the board since November. If I put up a board near the corporate offices, it will be 1k a month.

We track where all of our customers come from, and it feels impossible to try to track sales to a billboard. All I know is that calls for estimates and sales are up 50% since November. I don"t know if the economy has gotten better, and if thats had any impact.

Any ideas on a cost-benefit analysis to putting up another board at 1k a month? Its like 12k a year for the one board.
 

splok_foh

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slap a "Spring Special - 10% off" sticker on the billboard for the next month, see how many people ask for their 10% discount
 

Cutlery

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Yeah, either that or put a different phone number on the billboard could possibly work too. That way you know if they call line 4 or whatever that they"re automatically a billboard customer.
 

Evelys_foh

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Yeah, the only real way to track billboard stuff is to have a billboard-only offer, or have it advertise a different web address/phone number.

12k is also quite a few 30 second radio spots during prime driving hours, and you can target affluent customers by choosing talk or sports radio formats, and depending on your market size, could hit a lot more ears than a billboard, and be finer targeted.

A billboard is pretty widely targeted. You hope that most of the people driving by it match the demographics of the area it"s near, but it"s still a pretty wide form of advertising.

12k can also buy you a shit ton of web advertising.
 

Gurgeh_foh

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Lyrical said:
We track where all of our customers come from, and it feels impossible to try to track sales to a billboard. All I know is that calls for estimates and sales are up 50% since November. I don"t know if the economy has gotten better, and if thats had any impact.

Any ideas on a cost-benefit analysis to putting up another board at 1k a month? Its like 12k a year for the one board.
Dumb question, but did you try google ads ? No idea if it would be efficient in your field, but you don"t need to invest much to find out, and you have a very good idea of how much business it"s bringing in.
 

Kais_foh

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Is there any one or two things that you"ve learned over the past year that you feel make you and your business more successful, or at least easier to manage?
 

OneofOne

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splok said:
slap a "Spring Special - 10% off" sticker on the billboard for the next month, see how many people ask for their 10% discount
Not terribly a fan of this idea. All your normal customers who see this will want the 10% off as well, and some of those who don"t see it and find out about it after the fact will be pissed they didn"t get it.

I"d much rather offer a some sort of specific new client incentive that won"t annoy current clients. The trick of course is keeping the text to a minimum, as people can"t read it while driving. I know when we sent in our idea of what we wanted for our billboard, the first thing their graphic artist did was slash over 50% of our text.

I know jack about how your business works, but perhaps something to the effect of "new clients first tree trim for free!" or something (whatever service is relatively inexpensive to perform and is commonly requested for jobs).

Our billboard was only up two months, and at most 10 of our 50 or so new clients so far this tax season mentioned the billboard when we asked how they came to us. And this on the 2nd busiest stretch of road in town. The vast majority of our new clients come by referrals from friends/family/co-workers.

I do have to admit the radio ad idea is interesting, and something I"m thinking of at least pricing.
 

splok_foh

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OneofOne said:
All your normal customers who see this will want the 10% off as well
At least this part of it is ok, because you"re still tracking its performance. People who are already your customers are likely very similar to other people who you"d like as customers, so if existing customers notice your billboard, then it has done it"s job.

Not the perfect way to do tracking of course, but if you"re specifically wanting to track the performance of the billboard, then you need some way to encourage people to mention that they"ve seen it (some special offer or verbiage that very quick and easy to notice). Different numbers on the billboard won"t work, because as was mentioned earlier, people often notice the name but then look up the number in the phone book.
 

ToeMissile

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OneofOne said:
I do have to admit the radio ad idea is interesting, and something I"m thinking of at least pricing.
The NPR station that I listen to doesn"t have too many ads and they aren"t ridiculous so I don"t mind listening to them. Plus, I imagine (complete guess) that NPR"s listener base/demographic leans toward the more financially sound end of the spectrum.
 

prescient

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Lyrical said:
Any ideas on a cost-benefit analysis to putting up another board at 1k a month? Its like 12k a year for the one board.
You could always put an alternate phone number on the billboard. You"ll still run into the problem of people looking you up in the phonebook after seeing the billboard, but you are guaranteed to be able to track some of the business back to your billboard.

I actually just worked on a similar problem (tracking internet advertising where 1/2 of all sales come from direct input of webpage address) with a local business owner, and I don"t think that there are any easy solutions.

One easy way to see if they saw the billboard is to simply ask, "Did you see our billboard on route xyz?", whenever a new customer calls. I think that will jog most people"s minds. If they are a first time customer, saw the billboard, and are calling you I think it"s a fair bet that you can tie at least a portion of their decision making process to that billboard.

You might also want to do a yearly customer survey to determine where customers are coming from. Additionally, I would add in something like a net promoter score as it is seen to have a high r^2 & low p-value in relation to business growth. After, you determine your NPS you can start figuring out both pain points with customers regarding your business, and the relative benefits or your business vs others. The real key here is to keep the survey relatively short so that individuals are willing to respond.

Amazon.com: The One Number You Need to Grow (HBR OnPoint Enhanced Edition): Frederick F. Reichheld: Books

pirate version of articlehttp://www.netzkobold.com/uploads/pd..._reichheld.pdf

Those are my thoughts, once you do that you can tie these metrics back go the billboard and determine whether it is cost effective or not. One thing not to underestimate as well is the value of brand building. The value of your billboard isn"t just that month but future months, so be sure to discount some future cash flows back to that month"s income.

Edit: I"m kind of rambling on here, but thinking about it if you are calling after the job is done to follow up on work performed that is a perfect time to determine your NPS, and see if there are any issues with the work performed. That way you are getting timely data (maybe you can track bad performance back to a specific team / manager / employee) and can act on it quickly. On top of this its a positive signal to clients that you care about the quality of work being performed. In a small business word of mouth is king. You might be doing all of these things currently, or might not have the resources to implement them, but it"s something to think about.

Elasticity of demand would also be interesting to look at for a service like yours. I"m not sure of a good way to go about this since you don"t have a standardized product, but imagine if you found that increasing your price increased your profitandincreased your demand with affluent clients. It isn"t as far fetched as it sounds.