Adventures with lyrical - buying a business

Tmac

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[EDIT]
So, I decided to go a bit more in-depth on my current project and I"m hoping that someone here will have a bit of advice for me.

Basically, myself and two friends have started a real estate website builder. It"s basically a blogger style "do-it-yourself" website that integrates things like Google Maps with MLS services, Yahoo Text Editor, and other Google apps. To get a better feel for the site you can check it herereal estate websites.

We have an investor that wants to come on board, which I want to pursue, but both of my partners are dead-set against taking on any money before we"re cash flow positive. Which, would be great, if we had money to advertise. I"ve actually gotten out and talked to Realtors one-on-one, but it"s not wielding enough results.

We did recently gain access to a huge Realtor mailing list, so I"m thinking an email campaign coupled with a mailing campaign could yield some results. Especially, since we have access to 20k+ Realtors. But, even then, I doubt very many people will be turned on to the site simply from a spammy email newsletter.

I"m starting to feel like we"re genuinely fucked without money to put towards Ad Words and the like.
 

Grooverider_foh

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Problem with your business model is clear from the point of view of the realty customer.

People want to go to one website and search multiple agencies (aka "Car Insurance Comparison websites"). People do not want to go to multiple websites.

You"re providing a service that people don"t want to use..
 

Tmac

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Grooverider said:
Problem with your business model is clear from the point of view of the realty customer.

People want to go to one website and search multiple agencies (aka "Car Insurance Comparison websites"). People do not want to go to multiple websites.

You"re providing a service that people don"t want to use..
What?

There"s a huge niche market for this service.
 

Shonuff

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Tmac47 said:
[EDIT]
So, I decided to go a bit more in-depth on my current project and I"m hoping that someone here will have a bit of advice for me.

Basically, myself and two friends have started a real estate website builder. It"s basically a blogger style "do-it-yourself" website that integrates things like Google Maps with MLS services, Yahoo Text Editor, and other Google apps. To get a better feel for the site you can check it herereal estate websites.

We have an investor that wants to come on board, which I want to pursue, but both of my partners are dead-set against taking on any money before we"re cash flow positive. Which, would be great, if we had money to advertise. I"ve actually gotten out and talked to Realtors one-on-one, but it"s not wielding enough results.

We did recently gain access to a huge Realtor mailing list, so I"m thinking an email campaign coupled with a mailing campaign could yield some results. Especially, since we have access to 20k+ Realtors. But, even then, I doubt very many people will be turned on to the site simply from a spammy email newsletter.

I"m starting to feel like we"re genuinely fucked without money to put towards Ad Words and the like.
I used a D-I-Y website for my business, how is this any different? There are tons of D-I-Y site builders out there that have alot more resources (like Intuit/Quickbooks). How is your product any different?
 

Tmac

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Lyrical said:
I used a D-I-Y website for my business, how is this any different? There are tons of D-I-Y site builders out there that have alot more resources (like Intuit/Quickbooks). How is your product any different?
Ok, so when you"re looking at most real estate websites you"ll find that they are archaic at best. I"m talking rotating GIFS bad, with some sort of cryptic property search. There"s a huge market (current real estate website owners) within a larger market (Realtors) who are looking for modern web solutions on the cheap (most solutions aren"t modern and still fewer are cheap). And then there"s even another market of Realtors who have shitty sites and don"t know they need to upgrade! There"s nothing worse than a brand with a shitty website. So, there"s a market of users that don"t yet own a branded website that facilitates their MLS data, but would if it was within their price range.

You should also know that I met with a handful of real estate professionals as we were developing the software to better address their concerns and needs.

As far is individual features:

1. We integrate the Google Maps API with an agent"s MLS/IDX data so that their site visitors can search for a new home, similar to Zillow or Trulia"s search
- This type of API integration is very uncommon with current real estate website owners/users
- Integration with modern API"s is actually a rarity in this niche
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2. We host demographic data (using the Google charts API) on the MLS home-for-sale display page for the area the home is in and are currently working on aggregating school data and grading them
- Realtors want to provide their customers with this type of data and having a site that does it in a convenient way (we display it at the bottom of home landing-pages)
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3. We support mobile browsing and mobile home searches
- Similar to Realtor.com"s app we facilitate the same functionality when people visit our sites with a mobile device
- Again this is a pretty big deal for most individual agents; being able to brand yourself around quality applications is a rarity in the real estate business
- This ss is from an older build, I couldn"t find a recent one
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4. Our back-end functions much like Blogger and doesn"t require any coding, which allows internet noobs to maintain dynamic content without having to outsource IT labor
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5. We use drop-down tabs as call-to-actions when a home buyer looks at specific homes and allow visitors to keep track of their favorite homes
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6. People can even share their listings on Facebook and try to convince other people to do it if they want, shrug, people want "social network" integration


7. We do a lot of other clever stuff within the code itself that I"ll go into if you want.

I"d suggest goinghereto see what a site looks like out of the box after they add their photo and fill out their name and all that.

Basically, we integrate services that Realtors generally have to go to several different places for. We also have a modern look and feel which, again, is very RARE for a lot of real estate websites and their providers.

Lastly we are part of averysmall number of companies that offer real estate websites at a monthly fee, and probably the only one that does it without a large up-front fee. We"re also different because our software is designed to grow dynamically. So, as we add new features, say a featured listings widget for the front page, all of our users will have access to it. Integration from that point is a few simple button clicks.
 

Tmac

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ToeMissile said:
So the search is only good/set up for the Atlanta area?
It"s setup by default for the demo. We can support any MLS database in the country, we"ve just been focusing on GA.
 

Candiarie_foh

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Tmac47 said:
7. We do a lot of other clever stuff within the code itself that I"ll go into if you want.
Go for it. And it seems like a solid idea. I"ve been frustrated with my realtors site a lot, all kinds of retarded frames and unintuitive search options. That said, why are you considering taking on outside capital again? So you can pursue a marketing campaign? It seems like a better way at first would be to contact realtors one on one in your area and build it word of mouth in your state.
 

Tmac

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Candiarie said:
Go for it. And it seems like a solid idea. I"ve been frustrated with my realtors site a lot, all kinds of retarded frames and unintuitive search options. That said, why are you considering taking on outside capital again? So you can pursue a marketing campaign? It seems like a better way at first would be to contact realtors one on one in your area and build it word of mouth in your state.
Well, that"s the plan, but I"m a terrible salesman. For example,thisis a local broker I talked to yesterday. She said she what they had was fine and that they didn"t our services. I mean, what are you supposed to do with people who have a fugly site and don"t know it?

The main reason I need capital is for ad words campaigns to target people who are specifically in the market for a new real estate website. Everyone one that "needs" one isn"t exactly looking for one.

I do have the contact info of thousands of Realtors in my state, but need capital to produce a proper campaign in pursuit of their business. Newsletters, blogs, additional templates on the site, mailing campaigns, etc.
 

Tmac

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Cad said:
So you kinda want to recreate redfin?
No. We don"t care about selling homes, we"re just selling websites to brokers and agents.
 

Kais_foh

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You really need a good salesman to sell you services, ideally someone who can speak idiot. I"m not saying real estate agents are idiots, but when it comes to technology and marketing themselves, they really really are. I"m saying that with 2 real estate agents in my family that call me up frequently to tell them how to log into gmail. They spend so much time out of the office, showing houses, talking to clients, networking, etc that a great many have little knowledge on what the web can do to drive their business and make their life easier. Most agents rely on yard signs, yellow pages, and word of mouth for the entirety of their advertising and don"t have time to learn something new.

Simplify your agent interface as much as possible to take as much guesswork and specifics out as you can. You"d be amazed at the lack of motivation to do things such as record the number of bed/baths and upload pictures there is. Anything you can do to your software to minimize the amount of interactivity the agent has to do to the site to keep it consistently current and accurate is a huge selling point. An agent specific mobile app for uploading house info/pictures would be along those lines.
 

Tmac

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Kais[] said:
Simplify your agent interface as much as possible to take as much guesswork and specifics out as you can. You"d be amazed at the lack of motivation to do things such as record the number of bed/baths and upload pictures there is. Anything you can do to your software to minimize the amount of interactivity the agent has to do to the site to keep it consistently current and accurate is a huge selling point.
Well,that"s pretty much what we"ve done. We setup the site so that once a Realtor finishes customizing their site(Blogger style), as we upgrade our software, they don"t have to do anything to receive those upgrades. Their site grows as features grow. When we add "school data" to our software, it"ll show up on that page for all of our sites and aggregate in relation to that agents location (currently exclusive to GA until we get more Realtors on the site).

"Kais said:
An agent specific mobile app for uploading house info/pictures would be along those lines.
Well, there"s Multiple Listing Services (MLS) that provide Realtors with a database they can enter new housing data into. Whatrealcreatedoes specifically isintegrate this MLS datawith modern Google Maps, providing a killer interface to search for homes on the market geographically. You"ll notice the default search is similar to that on Zillow or Trulia"s homepage.

We also streamlined the whole search process so that finding a home"feels simpler". Every real estate agent I talked to wanted a site that would be interactive. So, that"s kind of what we"re going for.

We don"t want to allowsilly websitesorother bad designs, but want to streamline the whole home-searching process so thatall the helpful data you could want is in one locationandno one can fuck it up.

Finding a dated, ugly, horrible, was built in "96, just plain unmarketable Realtor website is like finding a needle in a huge fucking stack of needles.
 

Corndog

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Here"s the problem. Once you own a business you"re hit up at least 3 times a week by some guy who wants just a few minutes of your time. Then they proceed to tell you how you"ll make more money using whatever it is they"re pitching.

It"s not that your idea is bad. It"s that it"ll get lost with the other callers. You need to identify someone who is a leader in the market you want to break in to. Then convince them to let you redo their website for free. Give it a couple of months and you"ll start picking up the guy"s co-workers etc.

Usually the only ones to get anywhere with my business are the ones who will give me a taste for free. If I can"t get a taste for free from you, the 5 guys behind you will give it up for free. If it yields results then obviously I"ll buy in.

One of the inherent problems with your website pitch, is even with a brand new website/better website it might not translate into many more sales. So when the person looks at the numbers and see that this month is +2 sales over last month or -1 sales from last month, that wont exactly scream "the website will make me rich!"
 

Tmac

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Corndog said:
One of the inherent problems with your website pitch, is even with a brand new website/better website it might not translate into many more sales. So when the person looks at the numbers and see that this month is +2 sales over last month or -1 sales from last month, that wont exactly scream "the website will make me rich!"
Why not? How can you say an agent"s sales won"t be affected by a strong online brand? I would figure having a nice website would attract more clients.
 

Cad

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I kinda think that in the age of the internet, professional real estate agents as marketers is over. I just bought a house and didn"t have anything to do with the agents except to show the houses I had already decided to view, and to convey the offers I wrote to the sellers.

The agent selling our house has done nothing more than throw it on the MLS, make some flyers and ran an open house or two. And we"re under contract. What do these monkeys earn their money for, exactly?
 

Shonuff

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Corndog said:
Here"s the problem. Once you own a business you"re hit up at least 3 times a week by some guy who wants just a few minutes of your time. Then they proceed to tell you how you"ll make more money using whatever it is they"re pitching.
I get pitched five times a day, my secretary is numb to it and screens all my calls.

Anyway, I look at it differently than Corndog does. As a business owner, I want to do things to seperate myself from the pack. If a professional website is going to do that, I"m in. Show me how I can make more money using you, and I"m in. Its all about ROI.

I might look at it differently than my competitors, because in the niche we serve, there is like one other company that even has a site. But hey, we are booked for August, and our competitors have so little business that they are bidding jobs for 25% under market, and then doing the job that same day.

A good site is just another arrow in the quiver to having a successful business.
 

Shonuff

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As an update, I did go balls out on the advertising just to measure the impact.

Right now, I am spending on a monthly basis:

- $350 a month in the AT&T yellow pages (and internet directory), $450 a month for other another ylw page directory (in three seperate books), 100 for a community phone book

- $300 a month on google adwords

- $200 in newspaper

- Two billboards: a $600 near a wealthy retirement community, and a 1,200 one near all of the corporate headquarters

- Radio: $800 a month on NPR, 1,000 a month on conservative talk

And we are still booked for the month of August. Sales numbers are pushing pre-recession numbers (60-70k a month). We"ve also changed our sales process to be more effective at presenting what differentiates us. September is where sales start to slack off, and if we stay this strong in September, I will know the additional ad dollars are working. My gut is, that from our lead tracking, that ylw pages still yields the most calls, followed by billboard, internet and radio. So if I cut anything, it will be radio.

Everything is fine, except for our lack of productivity is down. Last year, my two crews would knock out 5k a day, now, with just a few new faces, they are doing 3-3.5k a day. Its had a huge impact on the company, we are doing 20k less each in the last two months we should have. Also, I had to fire my second Manager in six months due to cocaine issues this week. Apparently. 1k a week after taxes is too much money for them to handle, so they make that type of money and put it up their nose. In the midwest, 1k a week after taxes is alot for guys who don"t even have high school diplomas. It got to the point where I have his family calling me telling me he"s stealing from them fr drug money, apparently, he was spending 2k a week on coke.

I"m thinking I need to have some sort of drug testing policy in place.
 

Corndog

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Lyrical said:
I"m thinking I need to have some sort of drug testing policy in place.
If you do this, make it at random. Companies I worked for had it at random, and when you were selected, you were escorted to a testing facility. What blows my mind is people I know who have had to take UA tests not at random would always beat them by using someone else"s urine. I can"t imagine having the balls to do it, but I"ve seen people I know pass tests 6 or 7 times using this method.

I think pre employment screening is a waste of funds for companies. All too often I hear, I"m not doing any drugs, I"m looking for a job. Once they have the job, they go back to whatever habit they had.

The worst part of it is catching someone on the test is going to cost you a ton of money having to retrain the guy"s replacement.. Really there just needs to be enough motivation to not compromise the job to begin with. You"ve identified the problem of too much expendable income. There"s probably a way to wrap up more of their income for the sake of your business. Offer 401k matching etc. Get them to use up their money before they get to the point where they have cocaine snow down from the ceiling.

What about changing pay grades to include profit sharing. Instead of giving them 4k every month after taxes, give them 2k, and make the % then get equal out to a 24k check you cut to them before Christmas/your slow season. This does a couple things, it would allow you to not write them checks for 40 hour work weeks when things were slow. Also when people receive a large sum of money they tend to buy a car or some other big toy. This would be infinitely better than putting it up their nose.

On top of maybe solving your too much income for your managers problem. It"d offset wages based upon performance. If they make 100k less a year for you, well then they"d get less "profit sharing money". I"ve also seen this in action and most crews self police. If you"ve got a jackass who doesn"t work as hard, the rest of the team makes his life hell until he puts up, or leaves. Because nothing burns people more than sharing the pool of money while one guy eats a sandwich and the other guy busts his ass.

All these structures are based on service to the company. 50% of the actual profit goes back into the businesses account to grow the business/ride out tough times. The other 50% gets split up between everyone. Lets say you claim 50% of the profit sharing going to the crew. That leaves them with 50%.

1 year = 1 share
2 years = 2 shares
5 years = 3 shares
etc.

Even your secretary gets in on this action. Lets say you"d have 15 shares, and the pure profit was 120k last year.

60k goes into the business account
30k goes into your pocket
This leaves 30k, Each share is worth 2k. A guy who has been there a year, gets a 2k bonus at Christmas time, boosts morale. A guy who has been there 5 years gets 6k in cash. Managers usually get more shares etc.

All of this makes it easier on you, as when times are lean, you can justify cutting back hours, or just letting it fall off of their bonuses. Either way makes no difference to you.

In other businesses I see this play out, guys that have been with the company for a long time are getting 8-12k bonuses. They"d give their life for that job before they"d lose it. They also come to rely on that bonus at the end of the year to buy that car, or house down payment etc.
 

Cutlery

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This guy"s got some good ideas, but if you do go this route, remember that you pay guys 4k a month. If it"s 2k in cash and 2k in bonuses, don"t cut off the fucking bonuses when times get lean like a lot of other places do. I"ve worked for jobs like that where the hourly wage was shit, but you could count on the bonus check a few times a year and it"d make up for it. Then they need to cut costs because business goes down and the bonuses go away entirely and then you"re stuck with guys who are working an $8 an hour fuck off job and they will tell you to fuck off with it.