Archeage

Tuco

Tuco

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I think it's important to not look at it as two competent guilds fighting in an instanced battle in a vacuum, and look more at it as a siege being the pinnacle and possibly the deciding battle of a drawn out war between two organizations.

From what I understand the defenders have a huge advantage such that ceteris paribus the defenders win. In order for the attackers to win they need to engage in an attrition war that demoralizes the defenders to the point where they are no longer able to match your force on siege day.
 
Neki

Neki

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Eidal_sl said:
Having a clear-cut start time to a siege is mandatory to balance aggressor vs defender. Otherwise, the element of surprise is far too powerful. Even IF you had a strong crew all willing to wake up to a 2 am batphone, how long does it take to start the process and is this dynamic actually fun? The entire point to attacking, winning, taking territory, and developing territory is to have an advantage in some sense. To push the burden onto the attacker (that whole 3 attacker to 1 defender). As much as I hate referencing history when discussing game play elements, think of how absurd it'd be if a castle siege from the past involved the defenders living else where and having to rush to defend the keep (as opposed to living inside the keep). That's what we have to deal with in MMOs so SOME sort of artificial agreed upon time to match e-penii is necessary.
Click to expand...
A image popped up in my head whilst reading that

Helmsdeep-siege.jpg
 
Tuco

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
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Neki_sl said:
A image popped up in my head whilst reading that

Helmsdeep-siege.jpg
Click to expand...
That was pretty much how the third world war on Treachery looked when the entire server allied against us. They had 3200 people in their city and sent a massive 800 person force (The GM's count, not ours) against our city. It was an entire evening of fighting that lasted well into the night but ultimately they didn't have an orc carrying a bomb to blow open our wall. The truth is that if they kept up the war, harassed our areas and focused on hitting us 24/7 they would have won, but instead they gave up after they lost and we burnt down their city.
 
R

Rescorla_sl

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Tuco_sl said:
I think it's important to not look at it as two competent guilds fighting in an instanced battle in a vacuum, and look more at it as a siege being the pinnacle and possibly the deciding battle of a drawn out war between two organizations.

From what I understand the defenders have a huge advantage such that ceteris paribus the defenders win. In order for the attackers to win they need to engage in an attrition war that demoralizes the defenders to the point where they are no longer able to match your force on siege day.
Click to expand...
I'm having a hard time seeing how your last paragraph will play out in game. Building a castle cost so much and takes so long its hard for me to envision a scenario where an opposing guild could demoralize the guild who put in the effort to build the castle. If anything, you would think the defenders will be motivated to defend their keep as fiercely as possible.

With that said, if you referring to a hypothetical situation where every time Oranthul built a castle that PRX destroyed it to the point Oranthul gives up on trying to build castles and people quit the guild because it never wins then I can see that happening.
 
Hatorade

Hatorade

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This feels like Warhammer and Aion all over again.

Steps:
Don't care
Getting excited
Get into beta
Play the fuck out of it pre and post launch
Realize you aren't having fun
Play for another two weeks anyhow
Uninstall
Look forward to next MMO

I want to be wrong but the feels....
 
Big Flex

Big Flex

Fitness Fascist
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Hatorade_sl said:
This feels like Warhammer and Aion all over again.

Steps:
Don't care
Getting excited
Get into beta
Play the fuck out of it pre and post launch
Realize you aren't having fun
Play for another two weeks anyhow
Uninstall
Look forward to next MMO

I want to be wrong but the feels....
Click to expand...
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. We're all fucking nuts.
 
Byr

Byr

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Hatorade_sl said:
This feels like Warhammer and Aion all over again.

Steps:
Don't care
Getting excited
Get into beta
Play the fuck out of it pre and post launch
Realize you aren't having fun
Play for another two weeks anyhow
Uninstall
Look forward to next MMO

I want to be wrong but the feels....
Click to expand...
im on step 6.
 
Tuco

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
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Rescorla_sl said:
I'm having a hard time seeing how your last paragraph will play out in game. Building a castle cost so much and takes so long its hard for me to envision a scenario where an opposing guild could demoralize the guild who put in the effort to build the castle. If anything, you would think the defenders will be motivated to defend their keep as fiercely as possible.

With that said, if you referring to a hypothetical situation where every time Oranthul built a castle that PRX destroyed it to the point Oranthul gives up on trying to build castles and people quit the guild because it never wins then I can see that happening.
Click to expand...
We shall see. I haven't seen anyone really talk about what kind of punishment a guild can effectively deliver in this game to another one. Nobody is really putting pressure on each other in alpha yet, though guilds like OT are regularly focused on.

Traditionally the cycle works like this:
1. AggressorGuild targets DefenderGuild in the game.
2. Aggressor camps them, denies them access to resources, messes up their lands, hits them wherever they can etc etc
3. DefenderGuild puts up a fight but if they lose battles conflict and drama start in the guild (EX: "Why are people farming in such and such a zone when our farms are getting fucked up?? This is bullshit!" vs "You n00bs need to learn the play the game and not getting whipped so easily. That you want me to hold your hand is bullshit!")
4. DefenderGuild starts attriting because of the drama conflict and people getting tired of getting hit all the time.
5. DefenderGuild no longer has the ability to put up a good fight during regularly scheduled sieges.

This has happened in many games for us. Ex: in Asheron's call the Alberon Mindeater monarchy went from 5000 players to 50. In SB on Treachery the Skye alliance went from 3200 to 0. The Ascension alliance in GW2 broke up as soon as they started losing.

What's interesting is that very often the best guilds emerge when you a zerg guild gets smashed by another guild and all the real hardcore PVPers stay together and endure. I'll take one guy who doesn't mind losing for a week over 10 that bug out as soon as they aren't on the winning side.
 
Tuco

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
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Hatorade_sl said:
This feels like Warhammer and Aion all over again.

Steps:
Don't care
Getting excited
Get into beta
Play the fuck out of it pre and post launch
Realize you aren't having fun
Play for another two weeks anyhow
Uninstall
Look forward to next MMO

I want to be wrong but the feels....
Click to expand...
My steps:
Hear about it, ignore it
Get excited
Ignore beta
Play the fuck out of it post launch
Have ton of fun
Win all the glory and figure out the game
Play for another few weeks
Uninstall
Look forward to next MMO
 
Hatorade

Hatorade

A nice asshole.
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Tuco_sl said:
My steps:
Hear about it, ignore it
Get excited
Ignore beta
Play the fuck out of it post launch
Have ton of fun
Win all the glory and figure out the game
Play for another few weeks
Uninstall
Look forward to next MMO
Click to expand...
Great plan, ignoring beta however is just impossible.
 
Eidal

Eidal

Molten Core Raider
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Tuco_sl said:
Traditionally the cycle works like this:
1. AggressorGuild targets DefenderGuild in the game.
2. Aggressor camps them, denies them access to resources, messes up their lands, hits them wherever they can etc etc
3. DefenderGuild puts up a fight but if they lose battles conflict and drama start in the guild (EX: "Why are people farming in such and such a zone when our farms are getting fucked up?? This is bullshit!" vs "You n00bs need to learn the play the game and not getting whipped so easily. That you want me to hold your hand is bullshit!")
4. DefenderGuild starts attriting because of the drama conflict and people getting tired of getting hit all the time.
5. DefenderGuild no longer has the ability to put up a good fight during regularly scheduled sieges.
Click to expand...
In Eve this is called a fail-cascade. You missed a step involving copious taunting/mocking on forums.
 
A

an accordion_sl

shitlord
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Tuco_sl said:
My steps:
Hear about it, ignore it
Get excited
Ignore beta
Play the fuck out of it post launch
Have ton of fun
Win all the glory and figure out the game
Play for another few weeks
Uninstall
Look forward to next MMO
Click to expand...
I think this it's averybad idea to ignore the beta in this game. There are so many systems that aren't explained very well, beta is the perfect place to figure it all out so you aren't making huge mistakes on launch.
 
Bondurant

Bondurant

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Tuco_sl said:
I neglected the forum taunting because it's against PRX's code of conduct to engage enemies on public forums!
Click to expand...
I could swear during GW2 days there was people "from PRX" trolling about being the best GW2 guild ever, and the best PvP guild ever too. Or so they said. I remember it because it made me check on PRX website and I was the one mocking your history section because of the shitty feats like first Alterac etc. Now I must admit those guys were probably not from PRX and bandwagoning the hatetrain, since I've seen PRX people around in Archeage and other MMO alpha / beta and they wer quite far from being the utter cunts I expected them to be.
 
M

misery_sl

shitlord
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I think my main problem with the current lineup is that if I don't see myself playing an MMORPG for more than a month, I simply don't even want to bother with it. No matter how decent it looks. For me, part of the fun in MMORPGs is the long term commitment. If I wanted an awesome game that is short lived, I would not bother with an MMORPG. I would get a single player, or coop game that is tailored to being short lived and awesome. Trudging through a month of MMORPG just to get a level 50/60 and then dump it just doesn't interest me. Grinding quests/mobs and dungeons just to lose interest and throw it away turns me off completely. I seem to be in the shrinking minority though.
 
Tuco

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
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Bondurant_sl said:
I could swear during GW2 days there was people "from PRX" trolling about being the best GW2 guild ever, and the best PvP guild ever too. Or so they said. I remember it because it made me check on PRX website and I was the one mocking your history section because of the shitty feats like first Alterac etc. Now I must admit those guys were probably not from PRX and bandwagoning the hatetrain, since I've seen PRX people around in Archeage and other MMO alpha / beta and they wer quite far from being the utter cunts I expected them to be.
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The AV thing is a little tongue in cheek and we don't really have much pride in it but you have to understand the context. We've approached every MMO we've played the same way: win whatever war we can. In WoW it was the same and we completely demoralized the horde on our server by occupying whatever horde city we wanted at will. They'd of course bitch about us having too many people and would get whipped as soon as AV came out because it forced balanced sides. Then when it came out we were all excited about it and won our engagements.
 
Bondurant

Bondurant

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Tuco_sl said:
The AV thing is a little tongue in cheek and we don't really have much pride in it but you have to understand the context. We've approached every MMO we've played the same way: win whatever war we can. In WoW it was the same and we completely demoralized the horde on our server by occupying whatever horde city we wanted at will. They'd of course bitch about us having too many people and would get whipped as soon as AV came out because it forced balanced sides. Then when it came out we were all excited about it and won our engagements.
Click to expand...
Yeah we have a lot of Eu guilds claiming they're the "most experienced guild around" or "dominating Euro PvP since 2012", and when you call them on their bullshit they're like "dude it's recruitment PR spin, don't hate". Hey, at least in TESO both NA and EU were united, I mean we were playing on the same server after all.
 
Tuco

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
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Bondurant_sl said:
Yeah we have a lot of Eu guilds claiming they're the "most experienced guild around" or "dominating Euro PvP since 2012", and when you call them on their bullshit they're like "dude it's recruitment PR spin, don't hate". Hey, at least in TESO both NA and EU were united, I mean we were playing on the same server after all.
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Haha, I'll never get over the EU server being located in the US.

Since we're talking shit about ESO, the whole guild dominance thing completely fell flat in ESO. There was only a week or so in the US where guilds were high level and engaging each other in Cyrodiil. Most of the time we'd just see an organized group and if we weren't lucky enough to spy one of the few people we knew in it we'd have no idea we were fighting them.
 
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