Ashes of Creation

Neranja said:

A lot of those PvP-focused games are like that. There is a famous Youtube video by Josh Strife Hayes about the failure of New World, which was announced as a "Full Loot PvP MMO with territory control"

Amazon then announced after the first alpha playtest and forum feedback, that surprisingly and most shockingly ... players did not enjoy being attacked all the time. And so they pivoted to PvE a few months before launch.

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Full loot PVP with territory control MMOs are the Communism of MMOs. Those that support it are too dumb to understand why it doesn't work and unironically claim its never been REALLY tried.

Grim1 said:

WoW was a new type of game for most people who had never played EQ, or MuDs, etc. But WoW is way old now and the vast majority of players don't care about the old stuff. Even most of WoW's playerbase moved on to newer games and game types a long time ago. If they wanted more of the same then Wildstar would have been successful.

Repeating what was done before only works for small niche audiences. Imo the next huge MMORPG will be a totally new experience that has very little resemblance to EQ, WoW or any of their endless clones.

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Yes for sure. I think AOC could have been successful if they just started with their core ideas, an interactive world where the world responsd to player location and actions, towns were built up based on quests and killing monsters etc, simple but beneficial trade skilling. Stuck with some basic classes, went with a much smaller game world and huge focus on the combat system Instead they got sucked into massive feature creep, then had to change engines midway through, and I think that is what sank the game. To be honest combat never really felt that great or responsive but it had improved.

I may have a different take on sieges and PVP, but I feel like Black Desert has a fair middle ground, sieges are instanced or at least were when I was playing, PVP is technically open but the penalties for ganking are pretty severe, they have instanced arena's and BG type stuff. Which is I think the best way. Open PVP no consequences should be a ruleset for a separate server like how alot of other games do it.

Nirgon said:

Heard Gaben stepped in for refunds.

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I'm glad to hear it for you guys.

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Pretty much anyone that put a little effort into refunds got them.

Would be surprised if it wasn't just flagged as default to customer by now based on the success rate.

Keep em coming.

Sylas said:

I understand where you are coming from since in most cases its implemented like dogshit but this is literally the opposite of true.

Instanced based pve games are the actual communism of MMOs. You use instances to infinitely replicate gear so everyone gets a pony cus you basically star trek away scarcity.

Failed pvp games are the "no true scotsman" "real communism has never been tried" aspect of MMOs. The problem is of course they implement them retardedly on top of pve games and that never works.

But literal full loot pvp with territory control are the only style of pvp games that actually work and they only work when pve is optional and unrelated to the core gameplay.

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Atta' boy, Comrade. Prove me right. Well done.

Albion Online is still around and doing fairly well. The key to that style of game really seems to be protecting your sheep at all costs. You absolutely need a core of PVE players to support your PK population. I think the failure of these games is as much attributable to a culture problem than an actual systemic problem.

They worked much better when people were roleplaying and willing to take of anti-PK roles for example.

Tough nut to crack figuring out how to solve that but I do hope someone figures it out some day because I do enjoy these types of games before they devolve into toxic slop.