Autonomous Systems

Would you ever own an autonomous vehicle?

  • Hell yeah Bring on our robotic overlords!

  • Fuck you! I'll keep my Indepenence

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Aldarion

Aldarion

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Tuco said:
Phrases like "of course" have no place in a serious discussion of this topic. If you want to leverage some kind of political statement into a
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Lets be clear that I'm not saying 100% of the population will be in favor of it. But I am saying 100% if robot cars enter the private market, there are enough Astros in this country that human drivers *will* be banned. I'll refrain from using the phrase "of course" if you prefer. But it will happen.

There is no restriction on individual liberty that the American people will not accept in the name of a perceived safety benefit. None.

This is the same group of people that sincerely believes second hand smoke is dangerous in an outdoor setting, and it was a reasonable decision to ban talking on the phone in the car. Considering the huge number of people who die in traffic accidents every year, and the fact that damn near 100% of those were caused by human error, the safety arguments will be compelling.

You cannot tell me with a straight face that the same society that passively accepted banning cigarettes in public outdoor spaces will somehow rise up and fight for their freedom when it comes to banning self driving.

(Obviously the correct solution to car safety is increasing the difficulty of driving tests until about 25-33% of the currently licensed drivers fail them, since that is approximately the percentage of drivers who are incompetent to drive on a public road. But I include this only for completeness; the American people are petulant children who would find this "unfair" and will instead ban human drivers)
 
kaid

kaid

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They may not have to even actually ban humans driving. Most car insurance companies if they wind up with most of their claims being human caused accidents are going to pretty quickly either not insure cars people drive manually or do so with really punitive rates that defacto make it so if you want a car and want it insured you will let the robots do the driving.

If the state requires you to have auto insurance to drive legally and you can't get insurance if you drive manually they have basically banned human drivers without ever coming out directly and doing it.
 
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Tuco

Tuco

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kaid said:
The ideal probably would be to use LIDAR with some radar sensors to help augment them in heavy rain/snow conditions that would cause lidar some major issues but that comes down to cost probably.
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In vehicular autonomy lidar will almost certainly be augmented by radar and cameras. Those three sensors are great in different ways and combining them is very powerful.
 
Tuco

Tuco

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Aldarion said:
You cannot tell me with a straight face that the same society that passively accepted banning cigarettes in public outdoor spaces will somehow rise up and fight for their freedom when it comes to banning self driving.
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I absolutely can and debating it at this point is useless. Believe what you want about potential futures with potential technology, but the pace and and constraints of autonomous vehicles will likely disappoint you.
 
Siddar

Siddar

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Very likely in urban suburban areas you will see mandatory automated cars in 30-40 years. The advantages in traffic control would be immense. Removing humans from the equation would result in both faster less congested traffic along with increased safety. No way the government wont eventually try and go down that road.

There will still be non automated driving allowed n rural areas partially just as a tourist type thing. Where you hit the open road while in full control of the car unlike normal every day driving.
 
Aldarion

Aldarion

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Tuco said:
I absolutely can and debating it at this point is useless. Believe what you want about potential futures with potential technology, but the pace and and constraints of autonomous vehicles will likely disappoint you.
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No, I'm not doubting your predictions about the pace and constraints. Sounds like you have some experience in this area. Actually I take great comfort in your predictions of those limitations.

I dispute the notion that the American people will fight for their right to drive, when legislators and insurance companies collude to ban self driving. Of course its pointless to debate it. Isnt that what we do here?

Xzi -- its laughable trying to paint the opposition to banning human drivers as motivated by fear. Exactly the opposite is the case. The push to ban human drivers (which *will* happen) will obviously be the side driven by fear. My side is driven by individual liberty.
 
kaid

kaid

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Aldarion said:
Lets be clear that I'm not saying 100% of the population will be in favor of it. But I am saying 100% if robot cars enter the private market, there are enough Astros in this country that human drivers *will* be banned. I'll refrain from using the phrase "of course" if you prefer. But it will happen.

There is no restriction on individual liberty that the American people will not accept in the name of a perceived safety benefit. None.

This is the same group of people that sincerely believes second hand smoke is dangerous in an outdoor setting, and it was a reasonable decision to ban talking on the phone in the car. Considering the huge number of people who die in traffic accidents every year, and the fact that damn near 100% of those were caused by human error, the safety arguments will be compelling.

You cannot tell me with a straight face that the same society that passively accepted banning cigarettes in public outdoor spaces will somehow rise up and fight for their freedom when it comes to banning self driving.

(Obviously the correct solution to car safety is increasing the difficulty of driving tests until about 25-33% of the currently licensed drivers fail them, since that is approximately the percentage of drivers who are incompetent to drive on a public road. But I include this only for completeness; the American people are petulant children who would find this "unfair" and will instead ban human drivers)
Click to expand...

Also for the freedom of driving you lose you gain the freedom of time to do other things you may want to do. Want to talk on your phone/work on your computer/read a book/catch another 50 minutes of sleep before work hop in car and tell it where to go and now you are free to do whatever else you want to. It will be a trade off do people find their ability to let the car do the work for them while they go about their other activities offset the desire to drive their car manually.

For most people especially in heavy traffic areas driving is an enraging chore not something people cherish or look forward to as freedom.
 
Aldarion

Aldarion

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I have no problem with people choosing voluntarily to turn on the auto pilot. Thats awesome. I completely see the tradeoffs youre talking about.

I only oppose the banning of human drivers that will follow. Thats all.
 
kaid

kaid

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One way or the other I don't think we will wind up seeing more than the first or second gen of this in our life times in commercial use. And at least initially I don't think the automated systems are going to be allowed to be active in bad/harsh weather conditions. I think the first major version is going to be a more advanced version of the adaptive cruise control we already see where it can handle things like highway driving pretty well and maybe local driving in good weather conditions only.

Ford apparently is going for their first commercial model some time in the 2020s but those are likely to be pretty high end cars initially. I am likely to be an old man before intro level cars are available with this tech.
 
Eomer

Eomer

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kaid said:
Ford apparently is going for their first commercial model some time in the 2020s but those are likely to be pretty high end cars initially. I am likely to be an old man before intro level cars are available with this tech.
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Technology in cars trickles down incredibly fast. Look at shit like ABS, traction/stability control, and air bags. All were initially only available in high end cars, but within a fairly short time frame they all became more or less standard features in even the cheapest of cars.
 
Haka

Haka

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Aldarion said:
I have no problem with people choosing voluntarily to turn on the auto pilot. Thats awesome. I completely see the tradeoffs youre talking about.

I only oppose the banning of human drivers that will follow. Thats all.
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I understand people feeling this way. I just wonder what the argument will be like down the road when the data proves human drivers kill way more people than automated drivers. It's like the gun control debate of the future, but worse.

Also, I feel like I'm going to have a fear of my automated car getting hacked. I can picture Angelina's Jolie's face popping up on the viewscreen with a skull and crossbone and HACKING IN PROGRESS message and then my GPS is rerouted off a cliff. Terrifying.
 
Chukzombi

Chukzombi

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Or if the cops want to grab you then they can track all your movements and then have your car deliver you to them like a pizza
 
kaid

kaid

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Chukzombi said:
Or if the cops want to grab you then they can track all your movements and then have your car deliver you to them like a pizza
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Scary thing shit is almost this bad now. A lot of the shady loan companies basically install lojack type stuff to constantly track where the car is at all time and can disable it remotly so if you don't pay your bill repo of them is stupidly simple. I have also seen cases where cops have gotten warrants to activate those featurees and things like the onstar stuff.
 
Blakkheim

Blakkheim

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As this technology takes off, I foresee a massive Rural vs Urban divide that will develop. People living in large cities will become accustomed to it and will demand it exclusively while you will have the exact opposite effect in more rural areas. Rural will view it as an intrusion and nuisance at best or a threat to their liberty and livelihood at worst. The societal implications of this will also be huge as it causes further segmentation of the population. You think the red and blue areas on the election map are crazy now, just wait.
 
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Tripamang

Tripamang

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kaid said:
Ford apparently is going for their first commercial model some time in the 2020s but those are likely to be pretty high end cars initially. I am likely to be an old man before intro level cars are available with this tech.
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I wouldn't say the limiting factor to getting a level 4 will be price but simply a matter of production limitations. Uber and Lyft have been very clear in their desire to buy every autonomous car that's produced and I wouldn't be surprised if they're partnered with Ford. Those cars are going to be worth small fortunes, far more than it costs to produce them and the ride sharing companies have probaby bought exclusive rights for all produced vehicles for years into the future.
 
Kithani

Kithani

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Why is it "scary" that a car loan company can locate and disable a car that you haven't paid them for?
 
Tripamang

Tripamang

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Kithani said:
Why is it "scary" that a car loan company can locate and disable a car that you haven't paid them for?
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Well the shifty part is they charge 2-3x the blue book cost then 19-29% interest to people who can't really afford the vehicle. Then put clauses in to be able to take the car back for just one missed payment, couple that with keeping the down payment money..
 
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