Avengers: Endgame (2019)

j00t · May 2, 2019

honestly, i liked the first act. it was bleak and depressing. it really put weight into how heavy a loss it was. i'm guessing people were just wanting more action to liven things up, but i really enjoyed seeing how heavy-hearted everyone was.

Khane · May 2, 2019

The problem was it dragged on entirely too long. They could have conveyed all that in a much shorter timeframe.

j00t · May 2, 2019

i don't know, i think the fact that it WAS an extended thing is what demonstrated how messed up everyone was. again, i think i can understand why people have criticisms about it, but personally i really enjoyed the time they spent on it.

edit: there were at least a few scenes with black widow mourning and being unable to move on that they cut. i've seen a few stills and there's a few scenes from the trailers that weren't in the movie (her shooting the targets). i think her character was really supposed to be the heart of that act, but scenes got cut for time. but i think that undermined her sacrifice as well. i think her headspace was that she felt dead anyway, and even if everyone else got brought back, she'd still lose clint. if she was in a rational state of mind she might be able to work that out, but she was just so broken that she might end up killing herself anyway.

Lithose · May 2, 2019

Xevy said:
Chris Evans ball tapping Chris Pratt in that video. Amazing.

Another nitpick: so Cap's shield, basically indestructible, is just destroyed by Thanos's sword. Now, I know the "vibranium can beat vibranium" rule exists, so I guess we just assume his sword was Vibranium or some Thanos-tech equivalent? Kinda makes Cap's shield pointless if there's other materials now that can just shred it with enough force.

There are compounds stronger than Vibranium in the Marvel Universe. They weren't allowed to say Adamantium because of rights, but "true" adamentium is stronger than pure vibranium. (Cap's shield is actually closer to "true" admantium). For reference there are also two types of Admantium, "true" or "proto" admantium (Caps shield) and then "beta admantium", like Wolverine, which is slightly weaker but more workable.

Then you have Uru, which is probably what Thanos's sword is made from, its also what Mjlonir/Storm Breaker and the gauntlet are made from. Uru is stronger than adamantium but it needs to be created in a dwarf star, so its an extreme/magical tech. (Someone at marvel heard about neutronium or "strange matter" in dwarf stars and decided to make Uru a reflection of that.)

So in the Marvel Universe the known Tier list is...

Cosmic Metals (Created by Celestials/Galactus/Phoenix ect. People who can stomp "gods".)
Uru (Created by God like entities. Thor/Odin/Hercules ect Enchanted Uru is a little stronger even).
True/Proto Adamantium (Sci-Fi earth tech+Vibranium. Cap's shield is the proto version of this)
Vibranium (Wakanda Tech)
Beta Adamantium. (Experimental U.S. military tech/lesser mad scientists trying to copy number 3.)

So there are stronger metals. In lore, given Thanos knew where the dwarves were, he probably knew something of Uru crafting. He would definetly be capable of creating "true admantium though", which would have made a shield vs sword show down like a steel shield vs steel sword in RL--one of them would break depending on a number of factors after being struck enough. Or it could be Uru, which as said would bust the shield.

Ambiturner · May 2, 2019

Mahes said:
They should have taken 5 seconds to show the escape pods. I do not think the white flickering by the ship are escape pods. I think it is reflective debris. Since it was not shown, you could have just as easily assumed they were all killed. This point is made pretty strong with the bodies of the asgardians littering the deck they are walking on. Having to explain something outside of a movie to make the movie make sense, is the definition of a plot hole within a movie. I mean at that point I could just say that God Almighty "The very creator of the universe" felt sorry for the survivors and teleported them safely to earth. However God realized that Thanos might think something was wrong with no Asgardians on the ship and so just teleported half of them along with a strong female and a rock person to lead them.

Last point, Thanos would not have allowed any escape pods to have gotten away. Escape pods would not outrun fighters. This is not Star Wars where the empire allows an escape pod to get to the surface of a planet with the plans. Thanos would have blasted the hell out of anything trying to leave that ship while searching for the stones.

Why would Thanos have given a shit about escape pods?

j00t · May 2, 2019

thanos was hours away from getting all the stones, so i'm sure he had no problem letting the asguardians escape. after ragnarok and his assault, there was WAY less than 50% left, so i'm sure he was happy to let them escape. his plan wasn't genocide.

Tuco · May 2, 2019

Just saw the movie,loved it. Haven'tread a single post in this thread. Now I'm going to read this thread and probably come out hating the movie like the bunch of cynical fucks we all aer.

Chukzombi · May 2, 2019

looks like Red Skull got some splainin to do. maybe we get Natasha back too.

Tarrant · May 2, 2019

Chukzombi said:
looks like Red Skull got some splainin to do. maybe we get Natasha back too.

That gave me a headache

Xarpolis · May 2, 2019

Lithose said:
There are compounds stronger than Vibranium in the Marvel Universe. They weren't allowed to say Adamantium because of rights, but "true" adamentium is stronger than pure vibranium. (Cap's shield is actually closer to "true" admantium). For reference there are also two types of Admantium, "true" or "proto" admantium (Caps shield) and then "beta admantium", like Wolverine, which is slightly weaker but more workable.

Then you have Uru, which is probably what Thanos's sword is made from, its also what Mjlonir/Storm Breaker and the gauntlet are made from. Uru is stronger than adamantium but it needs to be created in a dwarf star, so its an extreme/magical tech. (Someone at marvel heard about neutronium or "strange matter" in dwarf stars and decided to make Uru a reflection of that.)

So in the Marvel Universe the known Tier list is...

Cosmic Metals (Created by Celestials/Galactus/Phoenix ect. People who can stomp "gods".)

Uru (Created by God like entities. Thor/Odin/Hercules ect Enchanted Uru is a little stronger even).

True/Proto Adamantium (Sci-Fi earth tech+Vibranium. Cap's shield is the proto version of this)

Vibranium (Wakanda Tech)

Beta Adamantium. (Experimental U.S. military tech/lesser mad scientists trying to copy number 3.)

So there are stronger metals. In lore, given Thanos knew where the dwarves were, he probably knew something of Uru crafting. He would definetly be capable of creating "true admantium though", which would have made a shield vs sword show down like a steel shield vs steel sword in RL--one of them would break depending on a number of factors after being struck enough. Or it could be Uru, which as said would bust the shield.

Tuco · May 2, 2019

faille said:
harley keener

ooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Tuco · May 3, 2019

Qhue said:
It's not a matter of the things he already did, it's more a matter of living through the second half of the 20th century knowing that JFK will get shot, or 9/11 will happen, or a million people die in Africa from famine and wars and not do anything about it.

This is the same guy who caused the whole Civil War because he said he couldn't sit idly by watching bad things happen. Especially if he is married to the founder / director of S.H.I.E.L.D. Hell would Peggy even make S.H.I.E.L.D. if Steve was around to be happy with?

As an aside how cool was it that Jarvis was seen in 1970? Funny that the only character to make the transition from the TV/Netflix stuff to the movies was freaking Jarvis from Agent Carter.

This was my first thought too. Also am i crazy or was froggy from daredevil in the whine session with capt america?

Ambiturner · May 4, 2019

Mahes said:
They should have taken 5 seconds to show the escape pods. I do not think the white flickering by the ship are escape pods. I think it is reflective debris. Since it was not shown, you could have just as easily assumed they were all killed. This point is made pretty strong with the bodies of the asgardians littering the deck they are walking on. Having to explain something outside of a movie to make the movie make sense, is the definition of a plot hole within a movie. I mean at that point I could just say that God Almighty "The very creator of the universe" felt sorry for the survivors and teleported them safely to earth. However God realized that Thanos might think something was wrong with no Asgardians on the ship and so just teleported half of them along with a strong female and a rock person to lead them.

Last point, Thanos would not have allowed any escape pods to have gotten away. Escape pods would not outrun fighters. This is not Star Wars where the empire allows an escape pod to get to the surface of a planet with the plans. Thanos would have blasted the hell out of anything trying to leave that ship while searching for the stones.

Just rewatched Infinity Wars and Thor specifically says "Thanos killed half my people."

You're trying too hard to force a plot hole just because your wife stumped you on something

Harshaw · May 4, 2019

Ambiturner said:
Just rewatched Infinity Wars and Thor specifically says "Thanos killed half my people."

You're trying too hard to force a plot hole just because your wife stumped you on something

To go along with this. Thanos at that point was still on his "Kill half, let half live" mantra. So when we see him he has already let half go and is finishing off the other half. Now, when the snap happens in Infinity War, another half of the remaining Asgardians are ashed out of existance.

j00t · May 4, 2019

Harshaw said:
To go along with this. Thanos at that point was still on his "Kill half, let half live" mantra. So when we see him he has already let half go and is finishing off the other half. Now, when the snap happens in Infinity War, another half of the remaining Asgardians are ashed out of existance.

there's no evidence either way, but i get the impression that he didn't quarter any population. his goal was specifically to half the population of any and every planet. he had already done that with countless worlds already. based on his portrayal he doesn't appear to take any joy from doing it, other than a job well done and his overall mission is one that he thinks is a mission of mercy.

Aychamo BanBan · May 4, 2019

In Endgame, final battle, they are looking for another "time machine" and they find Scott's van. What role did that serve?

j00t · May 4, 2019

Falxy-US said:
In Endgame, final battle, they are looking for another "time machine" and they find Scott's van. What role did that serve?

they were trying to bring the gauntlet into the quantum tunnel in the van in order to reset everything, stopping thanos. except that's a silly idea because they hadn't set the van up to DO anything... like, captain marvel was trying to fly straight into the tunnel... i know she's girlpowerful, but there's no reason to believe she'd survive the trip much less end up going where she wanted to go

Chris · May 4, 2019

yerm said:
Struggle and discomfort? The entire world population is doubling in a snap. Half the world population has no idea time passed, the other half isn't expecting their return. After 5 years the entire housing situation, crop farming, employment, you name it has adjusted to a setting that is now undone.

Discomfort is you wake up and your office is no longer yours, and you go home to someone else living in your house, and your wife moved on. Then you get to the real fun - the 2 year old whose mom dusted and starved to death, the 150 million other people who dont have jobs either, the lack of goods from food to toilet paper not prepped for everyone to come back...

Just the suddenly homeless + umemployed count alone signals massive potential crime.

You either put things back and make another baby, or you move on. Stark wanted to have and eat his cake - it wouldn't work. The half of humans who just got castaway'd are not going to just suck up the status quo they wake up to.

Shit. They should have written some sort of magic item into the movie which would have fixed all of that.

Alternatively they could have added an extra hour on to walk us through all of the logistics. Exciting.

khorum · May 4, 2019

yerm said:
Time travel is the worst plot device ever. Cap bench paradox? Who cares, if Thanos abandoned 2014 to go forward a decade?

Meanwhile I just couldn't shake how truly terrible, like basically evil, snapping people back but 5 whole years later would be. You get to come back to a world that would have adapted to your absence - food production is down, your significant other has moved on, your home isn't your home anymore, your job is gone or filled... And that's for the lucky ones not snapped mid flight, or with infants now abandoned, etc.

The actual aftermath of infinity war would be mourning followed by prosperity. The actual aftermath of endgame would either be infinity war never happened because fucking time travel, or, absolute widespread misery and starvation and chaos.

What's evil is if you had all five infinity stones, YOU COULD JUST QUADRUPLE ALL THE RESOURCES IN THE UNIVERSE. You could just increase the supply instead of genociding half the demand.

Also since Thanos had the exact same TIME stone that Doctor Strange used to look through 14 million timelines to see which outcome would yield the most positive results---what that actually means is that Doctor Strange must have picked through the ONE result in 14 million where Thanos ACCEPTS the outcome---not one where the Avengers "beat" him or "outsmart" him...they're in the universe where Thanos essentially admits he was wrong. Because whoever gets the time stone after Doctor Strange would have the same power Dr Strange had to see through all the future possibilities.... Strange just navigated through to the one and only timeline where Thanos went "OOPS I should've just doubled the resources instead of killing off half the people. My bad."

j00t · May 4, 2019

based on nothing but my own imagination, i just assume that strange was casting a spell with the time stone as a catalyst. and since thanos isn't a magic user, he wouldn't be able to do that. well, he would, but he'd have to manually go through all those timelines one at a time.

and we've had the debate ad nauseum about halving the population vs doubing the resources and the consensus is that they are both bad ideas. doubling the resources just means people would destabilize any kind of market system. the infrastructure would just collapse. beyond that, people would just increase their population to match the resource growth so you'd end up in the same place.

on the other hand, halving the population creates an influx of resources that would, again destabilize any kind of market system and the population would just grow back to meet the resource volume. it's a completely short-sighted idea either way.

i wonder... the reason why thanos thinks that his plan works is because he went and conquered a bunch of planets and told them exactly what he was doing. halving the population so that they didn't burn out their world's resources. whether or not you believe in the theory, you absolutely believe in the decimation he just brought to your world. that would hang over your planet like a fog for a long time. he'd be the boogeyman. "be good to the planet or thanos will come get you in your sleep."

but did anyone beyond the avengers know what he was doing? when he snapped half the universe away, did the people left know what happened and why?

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Avengers: Endgame (2019)

j00t

Silver Baronet of the Realm

Khane

Got something right about marriage

j00t

Silver Baronet of the Realm

Lithose

Buzzfeed Editor

Ambiturner

Ssraeszha Raider

j00t

Silver Baronet of the Realm

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!

Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member

Tarrant

Xarpolis

Life's a Dream

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!

Ambiturner

Ssraeszha Raider

Harshaw

Throbbing Member

j00t

Silver Baronet of the Realm

Aychamo BanBan

j00t

Silver Baronet of the Realm

Chris

Potato del Grande

khorum

Murder Apologist

j00t

Silver Baronet of the Realm