Babylon 5

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ShakyJake

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
3,865
8,957
50d 16h 48m
For me, one of the most memorable cliffhangers of all time is Sheridan at Zahadoom. The scene with the whitestar crashing through the dome is the very definition of epic.
 

Narac01

Golden Knight of the Realm
759
160
32d 2h 11m
For me, one of the most memorable cliffhangers of all time is Sheridan at Zahadoom. The scene with the whitestar crashing through the dome is the very definition of epic.
Alien Ambassador: "Oh, sorry, I, I thought you were dead."
Sheridan: "I was, I'm better now."
 

Xadion

Silver Baronet of the Realm
8,475
10,847
52d 14h 10m
Alien Ambassador: "Oh, sorry, I, I thought you were dead."
Sheridan: "I was, I'm better now."
Its always a fine line to me, he didn't die...fully...he was dying... Loren or whatever says a few times that he cannot create life- but extend it (mostly by giving of his own, but his is virtually endless so well...)
 

Zhaun_sl

shitlord
2,568
1
0
For me, one of the most memorable cliffhangers of all time is Sheridan at Zahadoom. The scene with the whitestar crashing through the dome is the very definition of epic.
"If you go to Za'ha'dum. You will die."

The feels and memories, oh man.
 

Phoenix Prime_sl

shitlord
235
1
0
One of my favorite episodes was when Sheridan was learning from Kosh. They end up in one of the worst sections of the ship. Trash everywhere and Sheridan saying that Garibaldi would never let him come down here without a full security team.

Kosh opens up a small hatch and tells Sheridan to go. He asks whats in there and Kosh says "One moment of perfect beauty." And nothing else. Sheridan goes in and he finds a moment of perfect beauty like Kosh said.

Kosh didnt just teach Sheridan how to fight the shadows. He taught him more about the way the universe works, taught him to see past the trival expectancies of everyday life. Thats what made their relationship great. Especially at the end when Kosh takes on Sheridans fathers appearance.
 

Mudcrush Durtfeet

Hungry Ogre
1,273
590
5d 15h 58m
One of my favorite episodes was when Sheridan was learning from Kosh. They end up in one of the worst sections of the ship. Trash everywhere and Sheridan saying that Garibaldi would never let him come down here without a full security team.

Kosh opens up a small hatch and tells Sheridan to go. He asks whats in there and Kosh says "One moment of perfect beauty." And nothing else. Sheridan goes in and he finds a moment of perfect beauty like Kosh said.

Kosh didnt just teach Sheridan how to fight the shadows. He taught him more about the way the universe works, taught him to see past the trival expectancies of everyday life. Thats what made their relationship great. Especially at the end when Kosh takes on Sheridans fathers appearance.
That was when Kosh basically revealed that he was being mysterious more to fuck with people than because he had to. Fucking Vorlons.
 

Phoenix Prime_sl

shitlord
235
1
0
Kosh was by far the most understanding and philisophocal of the vorlons. He understood what the whole war between shadows and vorlons was about. He didnt just teach Sheridan how to beat the shadows. He taught him to seek balance and show both races a better path to the future rather than "our way or the highway". In doing so he saved both races.
 

Beastro

Golden Squire
140
1
52m
don't know if it posted here or another place, but didn't read about Michael O'Hare mental issues till recently. Pretty sad.
That goes a long way to explaining a lot of things. Before then the explanation played up was that he was a stage actor and really douchey to everyone, came to regret signing up on the show and wanted to go back to plays.

I wonder what effect it had on Jerry Doyle to find this out. He hated O'Hare due to his behaviour during the first season and refused to do any scenes with him for the time travel eps, hence why their characters kept missing each other during them and only got to "talk" near the very end of the last episode (Which was both actors doing their lines to a wall, then editing the shots so they look like their talking to one another - if you rewatch it you'll see that they're never in the same shot together).
 

spronk

FPS noob
13,393
7,396
30d 21h 26m
doyle was married to talia and apparently o'hare hit on her constantly in season 1. doyle basically said if o'hare comes back for season 2 he won't be. then he became a right wing radio talk show host who is currently pretty popular.
 

Xadion

Silver Baronet of the Realm
8,475
10,847
52d 14h 10m
That goes a long way to explaining a lot of things. Before then the explanation played up was that he was a stage actor and really douchey to everyone, came to regret signing up on the show and wanted to go back to plays.

I wonder what effect it had on Jerry Doyle to find this out. He hated O'Hare due to his behaviour during the first season and refused to do any scenes with him for the time travel eps, hence why their characters kept missing each other during them and only got to "talk" near the very end of the last episode (Which was both actors doing their lines to a wall, then editing the shots so they look like their talking to one another - if you rewatch it you'll see that they're never in the same shot together).
I read it was because he was a douche and wanted to poke her in da bum
 

Grez

Bronze Knight of the Realm
196
170
1d 16h 7m
For me, it's the orbital bombardment of Narn by Centauri mass drivers followed by the news hitting Babylon 5, air-raid sirens going off, and police marching out in full riot gear. What an amazing show; it's often campy, but the over arching plot and its execution more than make up for it.
 

Aaron

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,082
4,629
21d 13h 6m
God damn it Doyle! Typical Republican! Got something good and doesn't want to share it with his friends!

Ok, I'm joking, I'm joking.


But thinking back, two more great plots come to mind. First is how the Great War starts off as a typical good vs evil fight. You have the "noble" Vorlons helping to fight the "ruthless" Shadows. But then the great thing happens: As the tide turns we start to see the Vorlons simply annihilating everything the Shadows have come into contact with and showing themselves to be pretty much as much as douchbaggy as the Shadows are. IIRC the whole point was that every (10k years, right?) the two great powers would slog it out and all the minor races would be wiped out, then new ones would grow up just to be wiped out again. So in the end the only "good" guys are minor races banding together to survive.

The second plot point that really shows (especially if you watched the series both pre- and post 9/11 is the Earth's descent into martial law after a terrorist attack. And after the NSA spying you can even relate that to the PsyCorps spying. Talk about premonition!
 

ShakyJake

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
3,865
8,957
50d 16h 48m
I'm betting most of you guys have seen this, BUT if you have not and love Star Trek and B5 check out:

Star Wreck: In the Pirkinning :: Parody's final frontier!

It's a parody of Star Trek and B5. It's few years old now, but it still has amazing special effects. It's probably the largest Star Fleet space battle that has ever graced a television screen. And it's really cool seeing all the various Federation class ships from old to new together.

Oh, and the Excavator (i.e. Excalibur).

It's in Finnish but subtitled in English. Humor is kinda odd at times, but the space battles are a joy to watch.
 

sukik

Vyemm Raider
1,969
3,353
60d 1h 11m
For me, it's the orbital bombardment of Narn by Centauri mass drivers followed by the news hitting Babylon 5, air-raid sirens going off, and police marching out in full riot gear. What an amazing show; it's often campy, but the over arching plot and its execution more than make up for it.
The CGI is pretty dated but I love that scene because it leaves it up the the viewer to fill in Londo's thoughts. "They're getting what they deserve.", or "I've made a horrible mistake.". I used to think the former but after watching the show a couple times I think the latter.
 

Narac01

Golden Knight of the Realm
759
160
32d 2h 11m
Oh I firmly believe he's thinking he made a horrible mistake. You can tell because the first time he sees G'Kar afterwards he has that "I'm so sorry" look on his face. He isn't afraid of what G'Kar will do to him, he's crushed by the guilt of what he did.
 

Xadion

Silver Baronet of the Realm
8,475
10,847
52d 14h 10m
Oh I firmly believe he's thinking he made a horrible mistake. You can tell because the first time he sees G'Kar afterwards he has that "I'm so sorry" look on his face. He isn't afraid of what G'Kar will do to him, he's crushed by the guilt of what he did.
Oh indeed, and that window reflection scene I believe is in every intro from that next year onward. He is very regretful and you can tell because his character is acting "fine" and "Justified" when it comes to the council of non align worlds or whatever - those two characters understand themselves the best and watching their relationship grow is awesome and quite a journey in and of itself- and how they end it is so symbolic, they kill each other- GKar could have shot Lando once he drank nuff to put the shadow shoulder thing to sleep etc but that's besides the point.
 

Aaron

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,082
4,629
21d 13h 6m
Yes, Londo was never an "evil" character. The way I see him is he's just a regular dude. He's relatively intelligent, but his pride/culture gets in the way. Centauri culture is all about respect, status, nobility, and above all else, power. Londo is not in the big league power wise, but is high up enough to get some shitty ambassadorial post that the Centauri don't give a shit about (like becoming the US ambassador to Chad or some other bum nation). At first he's like, this is as good as it gets, might as well just party and enjoy it, but then he's offered a chance to showthe other Centaurithat he's not just a joke of a diplomat, that he can actually get some shit done and make a name for himself (every Centauri noble's dream) and makes a pact with the Shadows. Only he gets more than he bargied for, much more. That's why he confronts Morden when things get out of hand, but he's trapped now. That's why he starts to loath himself more than he did before when he was just a no-name diplomat.

He can't kill G'kar, even though he's a constant reminder of what he's done (the guy does have a conscience) - or perhaps even, he can't kill G'karbecausehe's a constant reminder. G'kar realises this (at least towards the end) and realises that fate has intertwined them together.
 

Beastro

Golden Squire
140
1
52m
Yes, Londo was never an "evil" character. The way I see him is he's just a regular dude. He's relatively intelligent, but his pride/culture gets in the way. Centauri culture is all about respect, status, nobility, and above all else, power. Londo is not in the big league power wise, but is high up enough to get some shitty ambassadorial post that the Centauri don't give a shit about (like becoming the US ambassador to Chad or some other bum nation). At first he's like, this is as good as it gets, might as well just party and enjoy it, but then he's offered a chance to showthe other Centaurithat he's not just a joke of a diplomat, that he can actually get some shit done and make a name for himself (every Centauri noble's dream) and makes a pact with the Shadows. Only he gets more than he bargied for, much more. That's why he confronts Morden when things get out of hand, but he's trapped now. That's why he starts to loath himself more than he did before when he was just a no-name diplomat.

He can't kill G'kar, even though he's a constant reminder of what he's done (the guy does have a conscience) - or perhaps even, he can't kill G'karbecausehe's a constant reminder. G'kar realises this (at least towards the end) and realises that fate has intertwined them together.
He was weak man in ever way and kept proving that fact. Not only that he was indecisive on what he wanted to be and wound up harming everyone around him and everything he valued most.

He's a good example of the fact that thoughts, feels and intentions mean little, actions and their results do and while he may not be an evil man valued just by his character, his actions were evil and devastating.

The sad thing is, he was someone full of potential and greatness but was blind to that fact yearning for something he already had inside of him. He could have been a huge villain and greatly benefited the Centauri or he could have shunned that and thrown his lot completely in with the rest of the cast but his incessant indecisiveness and constantly self-reenforcing perception of himself as someone being persecuted and unjustly overshadowed made him the worst of both.

He craved to be a great man to his people and make his nation strong, but lacked the fortitude to hold that course and see it through by supporting the Shadows entirely,he always strayed back into acting on his conscience but only when guilt was overwhelming all the while fretting, whining and demanding he be singled out and praised for his good actions and ashamed of the praise he got from his evil ones.

After years of trying to go the glory route, then doubling back and trying to be a good person doing noble things, he shows that he's not as much doing them simply because they're the right thing to do but that he should be lionized for doing than just as he got to see everyone else praised for the noble behaviour, only he constantly refused to walk the hard road to get that hard earned reward. You link shows that. He did a simple thing that was import, but what does he do? He goes to the person he's harmed the most in the show and bitches that he's not bowing and scraping to him.

A good comparison between him and pretty much the rest of the cast can be summed up in the episode where Sheridan and Delinn get screwed about by Sebastian and put to the test of sacrificing everything including ego, to potentially fail and note even become a mere footnote in history but forgotten. They we were willing to risk literally everything and they reap the rewards of walking that fine line.

How do you think Londo would fair being put to that test? No glory and recognition? What's the point in doing anything, even following your conscience if you don't get praised by everyone all the time for doing the right thing?

Pretty much the rest of the cast gets put through much the same test in different circumstances over the course of the series with G'Kar being hit with it the hardest and most if them pass (some fail in the end, like Linnear), but Londo never suffered personally (As in where it really mattered, somewhere about himself and what he values that is truly sacred - losing that chick he was fond for was petty revenge, typical crap Centauri have spats over), or at least not as much as they did, he never truly sacrificed choosing one part of himself over the other, instead desiring to breaking some eggs to make his great omelette, then panicking at the scale of the evil he unleashed and so bowed to his conscience. The end result is at the end of the series where he gets to see that his actions and swaying back and forth between the light and darkness earned him no praise, no recognition, universal scorn and a strong hint of distaste with those that still are his friend and respect him like Vir, his country has become a broken pariah as a result of his actions drawing the wrath of the Drakh.

In the end he's meant to show that, no matter what you do, you have to commit fully to it heart and soul. If you sacrifice everything for your principles and what is right then you become a Sheridan, if you sacrifice everything for the wrong reasons and seek to redeem, you do completely and become a G'Kar, if you seek to make yourself great and and powerful giving everyone else the big fuck you, you become an Emperor Cartasia, if you seek to bring your people back from the brink of decay and destruction, you become a Delenn, if you seek to simply be a good and decent person, you become a Vir, but whatever you do, you throw everything you are into that commitment and accept that you won't get everything you want in every way, but Londo refused to accept that he couldn't both become a great man sitting on a throne of skulls and be a paragon of virtue.

In the end, he was a fool and he knew it but he also knew that he could have been someone great and he had only himself to blame for failing to become that great man good and evil he might have been.