I think the timeline is rather clear when you think about it. 1874 Booker is born -- 1890 Wounded Knee happens -- after wounded knee Booker goes to the baptismal place and this where the split happens. On one hand you have booker taking the baptism and being reborn as Zachary Comstock (Timeline A), changing his life around, meeting Lutece, discovering the tear/levitating technology and making Columbia, the timeline to create Columbia is obfuscated and that's clearly due to the rift and inter-dimension travel as you can see how old Comstock is when the city is found (from all the statues) and we know his increased aging and INFERTILITY is from excessive use of tears.
On the other hand you have Booker Dewitt (Timeline B) who refused the baptism went on to work for the Pinkertons and be drownd in his sorrow of what he did at Wounded Knee. 1893 Anna is born presumably to some woman who may have died in birth or left him in three years of depression he's drank and gambled himself in to a massive amount of debt and as a 19 year old kid doesn't think through the consequences of his actions. Comstock from Timeline A comes across Booker from Timeline B, realizes he has a kid and sends Lutece to offer up the deal, give him the girl, wipe away your debt. He agrees, regrets it, tries to take Anna back, she loses her pinky in the process. From this point on Booker is "hold up" in his office for 20 years until eventually the Lutece twins come and visit him and bring him to Timeline A in-order to start the endless cycle that they've done an 'infinite' amount of times. The battle of Booker Dewitt v Songbird/Comstock.
I don't think they mentioned at all that you merge with yourself in an alternate reality it looks like you attempt to retain some of the memories ("The mind of the subject will desperately struggle to create memories where none exist...") of that reality however they may be fuzzy if a traumatic instance has happened. Like being killed. Also the cops, vox, lin, etc. that are basically shells of people standing there weren't merged with their alternate universe selves. They were killed in the other universe and that somehow played a role on their being in that universe. This is why you have constant flash backs of the bleeding nose, the black and white grainyness. Booker dies in all these other universes that could presumably be happening at the same time or happening in some completely different time.
I may not be following you here, but either way, in Timeline A or B, Booker looks a hell of a lot younger than Comstock. I mean, Comstock looks like he is about 60-70 years old, and they are in the same time frame. Am I missing something?
Possession was my go-to Vigor for most of the game. I would occasionally use Shock but that's about it. I will also say that I used Vigors a LOT less than I used Plasmids back in Bioshock.
I suspect that the development change from Vigors using discrete charges to all being based off 'salts' resulted in an overall power reduction for most of them as well as making it much less advantageous to even use some of them. I know I used undertow once, saw how much salt it consumed and said 'fuck this' and never slotted it again.
I may not be following you here, but either way, in Timeline A or B, Booker looks a hell of a lot younger than Comstock. I mean, Comstock looks like he is about 60-70 years old, and they are in the same time frame. Am I missing something?
If you looted the audio phone things for Lutece she talks about how traveling through rifts has caused Comstack to age at an increasingly high rate. He's the same age as Booker but due to the constant traveling through looks as if he's in his late 60's early 70's
If you looted the audio phone things for Lutece she talks about how traveling through rifts has caused Comstack to age at an increasingly high rate. He's the same age as Booker but due to the constant traveling through looks as if he's in his late 60's early 70's
Normally in games I fucking fly past them and I don't even bother with them. This story was just so damn well done that I actually stopped what I was doing and patiently waited while listening to the logs. Amazed even myself.
I missed 3 as well =/ I figured I'd go through on the easiest setting at some point with a guide and made sure I got them all. I don't have it in me to relive 1999 just yet.
I'll relive 1999 when the game has proper savegames, like every 1999 game, though armed with experience from my hard playthrough, it shouldn't be that much of a problem. I have no idea where I missed my sights/audiologs, I'm pretty sure I scavenged every square meter of every level.
I have to ask, would anybody's enjoyment be decreased if there were a few plotholes in the end ? Because the story blows 99% of other games out of the water anyway, I just don't think it matters if the plot is valid for OCD people.
Possession was my go-to Vigor for most of the game. I would occasionally use Shock but that's about it. I will also say that I used Vigors a LOT less than I used Plasmids back in Bioshock.
I suspect that the development change from Vigors using discrete charges to all being based off 'salts' resulted in an overall power reduction for most of them as well as making it much less advantageous to even use some of them. I know I used undertow once, saw how much salt it consumed and said 'fuck this' and never slotted it again.
Proliferating upgraded Crow Storm is one of the strongest in the game. Stunning all enemies and leaving more crows when you kill a crowed enemy was the tits. Also chain shock. Also like to use shock against turrets and patriots.
Like in Inception, I think Nolan fucked up. There are parts of that, that just don't make any sense. Where either he intentionally placed these pieces in, that don't fit the narrative, or he did it by mistake.
here again, I think the story went through massive revisions. its possible we are seeing bits of those revisions. but it doesnt really hurt it too much.
I mean thematically, and plot wise. what was the point of the Fink industries part and the Vox? What did that have to do with the main plot, of a fathers redemption? twins don't show up during that sequence at all do they? In terms of the revolution, sure it makes sense. It shows us more of the underside of columbia, gives us Fink as stealing free will. Which I think was the original theme. Choice was important. And it shows us, that when the tables are turned, the Vox aren't much better, they too run wild. but again, how does that fit into the father/daughter story? I dont really see it, its a huge diversion. which makes me wonder why its still there at all.
Like in Inception, I think Nolan fucked up. There are parts of that, that just don't make any sense. Where either he intentionally placed these pieces in, that don't fit the narrative, or he did it by mistake.
here again, I think the story went through massive revisions. its possible we are seeing bits of those revisions. but it doesnt really hurt it too much.
I mean thematically, and plot wise. what was the point of the Fink industries part and the Vox? What did that have to do with the main plot, of a fathers redemption? twins don't show up during that sequence at all do they? In terms of the revolution, sure it makes sense. It shows us more of the underside of columbia, gives us Fink as stealing free will. Which I think was the original theme. Choice was important. And it shows us, that when the tables are turned, the Vox aren't much better, they too run wild. but again, how does that fit into the father/daughter story? I dont really see it, its a huge diversion. which makes me wonder why its still there at all.
the fink side plot basically helps to explain the idea of multiple universes. It shows how Elizabeth is able to manipulate the tears and it shows that you can be someone completely different within those holes. Booker Dewitt in one of the alternate realities lends a hand to the Vox and he's seen as a marytr for them, but in his universe all he cares about is Elizabeth and wants nothing to do with them. It's supposed to make the gamer think that there could possibly be other iterations of yourself out there. Not just this one.
Although yeah now that I think about it the Fink side plot was kind of blah compared to the main story line
I mean thematically, and plot wise. what was the point of the Fink industries part and the Vox? What did that have to do with the main plot, of a fathers redemption? twins don't show up during that sequence at all do they? In terms of the revolution, sure it makes sense. It shows us more of the underside of columbia, gives us Fink as stealing free will. Which I think was the original theme. Choice was important. And it shows us, that when the tables are turned, the Vox aren't much better, they too run wild. but again, how does that fit into the father/daughter story? I dont really see it, its a huge diversion. which makes me wonder why its still there at all.
The revolution was just the background; a means for the story to unfold. Elizabeth keeps saying that she wants to go to Paris and when the revolution starts up she even bluntly states that "this will be like Les Miserables."
Columbia is Rapture in the multiverse! Booker is Andrew Ryan's clone, while Comstock is Andrew Ryan. Fink is Atlas, Elizabeth is one of the little girls grown up etc.
yeah. first, there are many old vids. over time. really recommend go looking at them. Remember the scene of her in the shop with the head? Its remarkable how much was changed.
And yeah, one of the early holy shit, moments was the seemingly HUGE open world environments as suggested by the skylines. If we could go back and look at the FoH thread, much ado was made about that, and how it would even be possible. Turns out, its not. haha.
Heres 2011 E3.
This one has a few things that are in, but different. the songbird scene was outside, and you had control. I think this implies that at one point the song bird was more like big sister/nemesis. he would periodically appear. as opposed to the final, where it was what 3 times? per-scripted. Oh, look comstock house. also same, but again, outside. comstock also was very different. I would also think that without the beard, the booker=comstock reveal is not possible. so that was added later in the game, and not originally intended.
the game was intended to be far more open world I think. Limits of consoles must have forced them to rail it in, and rework a ton of the game to make it function. killing much of the outdoors railway gameplay.
I just watched a video that had an interesting take on this:
All of the gameplay videos that were released were actually part of the multiverse of the game. You actually never see the version of Elizabeth in this video (look at her hair) in the game until the VERY end when you're drowned (she's the last Elizabeth to appear).
Even the ORIGINAL reveal had Booker looking in a fish tank at a big daddy, being snatched up by a Handy Man, lobbed out the window, levitated by Elizabeth, and falling to his death. Again, this is one of the infinite multiverses.
Shit gets real deep, if you want to believe that Levine set it up this way the whole time.
I just watched a video that had an interesting take on this:
All of the gameplay videos that were released were actually part of the multiverse of the game. You actually never see the version of Elizabeth in this video (look at her hair) in the game until the VERY end when you're drowned (she's the last Elizabeth to appear).
Even the ORIGINAL reveal had Booker looking in a fish tank at a big daddy, being snatched up by a Handy Man, lobbed out the window, levitated by Elizabeth, and falling to his death. Again, this is one of the infinite multiverses.
Shit gets real deep, if you want to believe that Levine set it up this way the whole time.
yep the end of the game. the various Elizabeths. A various stages of the story, AND from various stages of development. A few of them are from those old demos, exactly.
Also, that is really where I am going with the martyr booker plot. I think that is exactly what the old game was about. I think the original infinate story, revolved around Booker starting the vox populi revolution with Daisy. and dying in the end. And it was more heaven/hell oriented. Descending down into Finks shantydown. red lights. (hell) Thematically, none of that really fits anymore in the game. Sure, there is some story elements, bonding with Elizabeth, and game mechanics, of demonstrating portals etc. but that could be done in any way. And certainly could have been done while holding onto the symbolism that the rest of the game demonstrates. so, I think thats what happened. we get dumped into that other timeline. Its kindof an injoke probably.
Because as what was just said, the game JUST came out. Walking Dead game had em for two weeks, waiting at least a week for this wont kill you.
Edit - I added a smily to show I'm a light hearted individual.
I really want to get this but I just got Skyrim a week or so ago and am really enjoying that and don't want to get into another game yet. Glad to see this one getting such positive feedback though.
