Bitcoins/Litecoins/Virtual Currencies

Torrid said:

Funny how Ethereum advocates went from 'BTC fees are too high, use ETH instead' to 'BTC fees are too low, it's doomed.'

ETH fees are high right now because of the on-chain computational cost of their current DeFi implementations. It won't always be this way and if ETH fails to reduce this, it will lose to competitors. Right now if you want to trade less than $1000 on Uniswap, fees are prohibitive.

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Funny how that never happened and you just pulled shit out of your ass. Transaction fees being too volatile to secure the network was a primary consideration for Ethereum's infinite supply. Ethereum fees are super fucking low right now, too, not sure what you're talking about.

swayze22 said:

the last few pages sounds a lot like people trying to add infinite levels of complexity to try and usurp some money from the suckers & extract from the current economic system to buy into their "new system" in the short term before everyone realizes they should just use fucking dollars and all the bullshit collapses.

The reason it's not that "clear" what the practicality and usefulness of most of this stuff is............is because there isn't any. all the borrowing money to loan it out and make more money with my specific token etc etc, only works in the short term.

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This sums up my feelings about all of this pretty nicely.

It's a bunch of people "investing" in a bunch of coins, but they don't actually care about the nifty shit it does, they just want more people to buy in so they get rich.

If BTC or ETH ends up just being a new currency pegged to the dollar and doesn't budge from their current prices, is anyone still holding them? I doubt it, because it sounds ridiculous in that case.

James said:

Funny how that never happened and you just pulled shit out of your ass. Transaction fees being too volatile to secure the network was a primary consideration for Ethereum's infinite supply. Ethereum fees are super fucking low right now, too, not sure what you're talking about.

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Gravel said:

It's a bunch of people "investing" in a bunch of coins, but they don't actually care about the nifty shit it does, they just want more people to buy in so they get rich.

If BTC or ETH ends up just being a new currency pegged to the dollar and doesn't budge from their current prices, is anyone still holding them? I doubt it, because it sounds ridiculous in that case.

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I agree with you generally, but you're making a mistake lumping BTC in with the rest of crypto. Bitcoin has a very specific use case and the true believes (HODLers) won't sell for any price. Plenty of people are speculating on price action as you've pointed out but Bitcoin didn't get this far because of speculators. It got here because the core of the network will never sell.

Bitcoin was created to resolve the problem of centralized entities controlling monetary policy, it does this flawlessly. Plenty of people buy it for other reasons, but that's why the true HODLers are here

I don't know why you linked that video, it's still as absolutely true today as it was when he said it. Do you understand that's the whole fucking point behind scaling research and why Ethereum is lightyears beyond any other blockchain? Wait...do you understand what the word volatility means?

Gravel said:

It's a bunch of people "investing" in a bunch of coins, but they don't actually care about the nifty shit it does, they just want more people to buy in so they get rich.

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A lot of people didn't understand how the old internet would make money, too.

James said:

I don't know why you linked that video, it's still as absolutely true today as it was when he said it. Do you understand that's the whole fucking point behind scaling research and why Ethereum is lightyears beyond any other blockchain? Wait...do you understand what the word volatility means?

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"BTC fees are too high, use ETH instead" its pretty obvious. You said:

Funny how that never happened and you just pulled shit out of your ass

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Simply pointing out that you're incorrect.

For fun, current gas fee is 23 gwei which is quite low


gas fees were ~50x higher at points just a few months ago. Funny how $0.05 fees used to be too high.

James said:

A lot of people didn't understand how the old internet would make money, too.

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Myspace and knitting recipes > *, damnit.

Flobee said:

"BTC fees are too high, use ETH instead" its pretty obvious. You said:

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I don't know why you have so much trouble with such basic shit like this, the original comment was regarding the volatility of transaction fees being bad for a network secured entirely by them, which Torrid misconstrued into whatever dumbass statement this is which for whatever reason you think is some absolute statement. You fucking Bitcoiners are so goddamn stupid, I swear.

James said:

A lot of people didn't understand how the old internet would make money, too.

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I mean, the way you make money with them right now is arbitrage. That's not a new concept.

The use cases for crypto are not the same as trading coins.

Gravel said:

I mean, the way you make money with them right now is arbitrage. That's not a new concept.

The use cases for crypto are not the same as trading coins.

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Except it's a lot more than just trading coins, it's about providing liquidity and being rewarded for it. It's a brand new investment vehicle and there's already over $60 billion locked in it, and arbitrage is not even close to the main driver of the rewards -- front running is essentially a 3x transaction rate, and both of these issues are actively being worked on and remedied. And yeah, it's just the one use case, there are a lot more.

Flobee said:

Bitcoin has a very specific use case and the true believes (HODLers) won't sell for any price. Plenty of people are speculating on price action as you've pointed out but Bitcoin didn't get this far because of speculators. It got here because the core of the network will never sell.

Bitcoin was created to resolve the problem of centralized entities controlling monetary policy, it does this flawlessly. Plenty of people buy it for other reasons, but that's why the true HODLers are here

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What is the end game here then? If the core network is hanging on and will never sell, the rest of the world isn't going to value it anymore

Tmac said:

Do contribute to any thread you post in? Stop wasting real estate.

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You keep this up and you're gonna get your own thread!

James said:

Funny how that never happened and you just pulled shit out of your ass. Transaction fees being too volatile to secure the network was a primary consideration for Ethereum's infinite supply. Ethereum fees are super fucking low right now, too, not sure what you're talking about.

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ETH fees are low in recent days relative to itself. A previous post was comparing total USD value network fees of ETH vs BTC. Also, compare even today's Uniswap fees to centralized exchanges. My point was that the fees people are paying for Ethereum contracts relative to bitcoin don't mean very much and that people will spin high or low fees both ways to support their argument. (high fees = adoption! bullish! high fees = useless coin because people are priced out and can't buy coffee! bearish!) DeFi needs low TX fees more than digital gold needs low TX fees however.

Bitcoin just had nearly a full week of a cleared mempool so the last 7 day numbers are going to be unusually low. Fee block rewards are something like 3,000 BTC a month for the last year-- that's $150 million a month at 50k a coin from fees alone. Miners don't shut off their ASICs the moment the block reward payouts drop below average, they often mine at a temporary loss because they can be confident that the price will recover BECAUSE it's a deflationary asset. Although I would agree for every other coin that isn't bitcoin, a tail emission makes sense and is often done because they're not the top coin or trying to be gold. (e.g. Monero, Sia) Bitcoin is appreciating so rapidly that the energy use is way above the amount required to secure the network and is why all the pollution FUD gets any traction.

I would argue that Bitcoin fees fluctuating so much is actually very positive since it allows poor people to wait some period of time to open and close lightning channels, otherwise they'd be priced out of layer 1 and be forced to use intermediaries. You can bet that if at some point miners were not being compensated enough to secure the network, that large stakeholders would intervene before their wealth evaporated from a successful 51% attack. There are obvious ways to do this without a hardfork.

Torrid said:

You can bet that if at some point miners were not being compensated enough to secure the network, that large stakeholders would intervene before their wealth evaporated from a successful 51% attack.

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This is exactly the point, and it is not a good thing for the security of the blockchain. It is, in fact, the exact scenario that needs to play out in order for a 51% attack to even be possible.

Jive Turkey said:

What is the end game here then? If the core network is hanging on and will never sell, the rest of the world isn't going to value it anymore

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If you think BTC will be the unit of account, you start to see selling Bitcoin as buying fiat. At what price and for what reason am I willing to buy more fiat currency? Its not that they'll never spend Bitcoin, just not on garbage paper money and at a valuation they deem closer to real.

swayze22 said:

Scarcity supposedly. Digital gold but not. A theoretical move away from central banking and monetary policy. The technology and accessibility being the dictator of the amount in circulation and it's use/value (it's capped eventually), and not some regime that decides to print a few trillion in a year "because".

or something

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But gold has aesthetic value outside of scarcity. You can also be conspicuous with gold to flaunt your wealth. In that sense, bitcoin has a lot more in common with paper money than it does with gold.

Lightning works. Layer 3s are coming...

individuals can leverage Impervious' API (when it drops in a few weeks) to spin up a VPN using the Lightning Network and its routing nodes. A VPN is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to applications will be able to be built using Impervious' API. Once live, developers will be able to create experiences around data transfer and storage that leverage the Lightning Network in ways that attempt to preserve user privacy and offer alternative solutions that ensure data transfers are ephemeral, with no data being stored in a centralized server into perpetuity. Providing a way for individuals across the world who desperately need privacy preserving apps with no centralized third party involved to do so.

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Here is a web3 application example. Lightning network replacing the transport layer of the TCP/IP stack alone is pretty wild. Can do so much more