Bitcoins/Litecoins/Virtual Currencies

Jive Turkey · Jun 14, 2021

swayze22 said:
The gold standard, not pinky rings buddy. Monetary policy has evolved but the point is who is in “control”. (Like basically any macro topic or subject)

I think crypto people have lost touch with *why* things have value. Again, bitcoin is more like paper money in that it has value "because I said so" instead of having intrinsic desirability.
The gold standard and pinky rings are inextricably connected

Arden · Jun 14, 2021

Jive Turkey said:
I think crypto people have lost touch with *why* things have value. Again, bitcoin is more like paper money in that it has value "because I said so" instead of having intrinsic desirability.
The gold standard and pinky rings are inextricably connected

You didn't read the Cuban blog post about DeFi

swayze22 · Jun 15, 2021

Jive Turkey said:
I think crypto people have lost touch with *why* things have value. Again, bitcoin is more like paper money in that it has value "because I said so" instead of having intrinsic desirability.
The gold standard and pinky rings are inextricably connected

are you saying a literal piece of paper has intrinsic value? It's all about what "people" think. It just mostly depends on what "people" and how many. (If we are speaking analogous to the dollar)

Jive Turkey · Jun 15, 2021

swayze22 said:
are you saying a literal piece of paper has intrinsic value?

I'm not saying that at all. The paper used to be a surrogate for something with intrinsic value, but that's no longer the case. Which is why I'm saying bitcoin is a lot more like the paper is now. It has value because someone said it does.
They've just decided that scarcity is enough to imbue it with value. And maybe it is. But if it all gets hoarded away, they're going to have a hell of a time to try to convince everyone else that it's worth anything.

Tmac · Jun 15, 2021

Jive Turkey said:
I think crypto people have lost touch with *why* things have value. Again, bitcoin is more like paper money in that it has value "because I said so" instead of having intrinsic desirability.
The gold standard and pinky rings are inextricably connected

No. There's a guy named Robert Breedlove who has a podcast called "What is Money". I suggest you listen to it.

Bitcoin has all of the characteristics of currency and does them better than gold, principally: divisibility and transferability.

24.1 What Is Money? – Principles of Economics

open.lib.umn.edu

James · Jun 15, 2021

Jive Turkey said:
They've just decided that scarcity is enough to imbue it with value. And maybe it is. But if it all gets hoarded away, they're going to have a hell of a time to try to convince everyone else that it's worth anything.

This is essentially the TLDR of the Goldman Sachs report that came out about Bitcoin vs Ethereum, fwiw.

swayze22 · Jun 15, 2021

people want a currency that is untethered to any government, accessible, transferable, and (digital). BTC was the “first” and will continue to run at the forefront of crypto for the foreseeable future until more actual usage of the other sketch coins are a reality.

I can’t see the future but nothing is steering me another direction.

fwiw
I own btc & eth primarily and small amounts of some others, mostly due to atleast somewhat intelligent thoughts posted here.

Tmac · Jun 15, 2021

Jive Turkey said:
They've just decided that scarcity is enough to imbue it with value.

That's what happens when The Fed prints dollars like they're a Kinko's.

But again, that's not the only characteristic BTC has.

Sanrith Descartes · Jun 15, 2021

swayze22 said:
people want a currency that is untethered to any government,

All currency not backed by something desirable (ie.. gold, cows, corn etc) has no intrinsic value. Paper is backed by the word of the gubmint. At the current time, people and institutions consider that desirable. One has to recognize the fact that crypto has no intrinsic value. People are willing to buy it but dont mistake that for intrinsic value.

None of the above doesn't mean it cant be a medium of exchange for a group of people. It can. But this idea of a global economy based around crypto that is outside gubmint is a fantasy. You can make money trading crypto, but never blind yourself to the reality of what it is and isn't.

Arden · Jun 15, 2021

Sanrith Descartes said:
All currency not backed by something desirable (ie.. gold, cows, corn etc) has no intrinsic value. Paper is backed by the word of the gubmint. At the current time, people and institutions consider that desirable. One has to recognize the fact that crypto has no intrinsic value. People are willing to buy it but dont mistake that for intrinsic value.

None of the above doesn't mean it cant be a medium of exchange for a group of people. It can. But this idea of a global economy based around crypto that is outside gubmint is a fantasy. You can make money trading crypto, but never blind yourself to the reality of what it is and isn't.

Some crypto has intrinsic value, albeit relatively low intrinsic value right now. But anyone with sense can see the potential for a future where crypto has very great intrinsic value, which is part of what drives demand for coins that aren't BTC.

Crypto has value above and beyond a simple store of value because it's linked to blockchain tech, which can provide numerous benefits to companies that know how to utilize it. Companies are just starting to realize how many ways blockchain can benefit them, from reducing overhead to increasing efficiency in just about every facet of their business.

Take VET for example, which helps companies track supply-side logistics. You can use the VTHOR generated by VET to fuel your use of their blockchain to help you become more accurate and efficient with your inventory management. Similarly, you can use the various coins and tokens in DeFi to help run your DeFi apps.

All this stuff is absolutely in it's infancy. We are just getting started. Is it possible crypto dies on the vine and never expands beyond the relatively narrow scope of uses it currently has? Sure. But I'm betting that it won't die on the vine and will instead be a fairly ubiquitous part of life in the near future. And a lot of people much smarter than me think so too.

MachRed · Jun 15, 2021

The BTC vs ETH, scarcity vs use case, gold vs paper. Both would seem to benefit each other. If BTC/gold was hoarded without an open market to actually buy shit you want, what's the point. If you only had ETH/cash, where's the incentive to hold long term digital assets? Seems to me it would look like a fiat world without a cornerstone of perceived wealth or scarcity.

Sanrith Descartes · Jun 15, 2021

Arden said:
Some crypto has intrinsic value, albeit relatively low intrinsic value right now. But anyone with sense can see the potential for a future where crypto has very great intrinsic value, which is part of what drives demand for coins that aren't BTC.

Crypto has value above and beyond a simple store of value because it's linked to blockchain tech, which can provide numerous benefits to companies that know how to utilize it. Companies are just starting to realize how many ways blockchain can benefit them, from reducing overhead to increasing efficiency in just about every facet of their business.

Take VET for example, which helps companies track supply-side logistics. You can use the VTHOR generated by VET to fuel your use of their blockchain to help you become more accurate and efficient with your inventory management. Similarly, you can use the various coins and tokens in DeFi to help run your DeFi apps.

All this stuff is absolutely in it's infancy. We are just getting started. Is it possible crypto dies on the vine and never expands beyond the relatively narrow scope of uses it currently has? Sure. But I'm betting that it won't die on the vine and will instead be a fairly ubiquitous part of life in the near future. And a lot of people much smarter than me think so too.

Name what specific "relatively low" intrinsic value crypto has today.

Everything else you list as "future value" isn't actually value. Its hopium. Now, I can't predict the future and tomorrow or next week something might change and all 190+ gubmints might tie crypto to the gold standard and consider it legal currency. In that case it would indeed have value. Any any of a myriad other things could happen to give crypto value down the road. My point is today it doesnt have any value beyond something like art. Except that with art you actually get something physical. Unless you are paying 18k for a statue of "nothing" like the idiot the other day.

I am not poo-pooing the idea of crypto, the blockchain or trading crypto. It presents an immense opportunity to make money off of its inherent volatility. I am saying be careful not to view it as something it is not. Today.

Arden · Jun 15, 2021

Sanrith Descartes said:
Name what specific "relatively low" intrinsic value crypto has today.

Everything else you list as "future value" isn't actually value. Its hopium. Now, I can't predict the future and tomorrow or next week something might change and all 190+ gubmints might tie crypto to the gold standard and consider it legal currency. In that case it would indeed have value. Any any of a myriad other things could happen to give crypto value down the road. My point is today it doesnt have any value beyond something like art. Except that with art you actually get something physical. Unless you are paying 18k for a statue of "nothing" like the idiot the other day.

I am not poo-pooing the idea of crypto, the blockchain or trading crypto. It presents an immense opportunity to make money off of its inherent volatility. I am saying be careful not to view it as something it is not. Today.

There are several examples but I'll give you one: the VET blockchain is being used for data collection, verification, storage, and tracking for MyBaby, a blockchain-based service app for In-Vetro fertilization (IVF) in China.

Sanrith Descartes · Jun 15, 2021

Arden said:
There are several examples but I'll give you one: the VET blockchain is being used for data collection, verification, storage, and tracking for MyBaby, a blockchain-based service app for In-Vetro fertilization (IVF) in China.

I totally agree that the blockchain tech has value. You said crypto coins have some intrinsic value.

Arden · Jun 15, 2021

Sanrith Descartes said:
I totally agree that the blockchain tech has value. You said crypto coins have some intrinsic value.

In this case, and in most use cases, the coins and the tech are inseparable.

Tmac · Jun 15, 2021

Sanrith Descartes said:
All currency not backed by something desirable (ie.. gold, cows, corn etc) has no intrinsic value. Paper is backed by the word of the gubmint. At the current time, people and institutions consider that desirable. One has to recognize the fact that crypto has no intrinsic value. People are willing to buy it but dont mistake that for intrinsic value.

None of the above doesn't mean it cant be a medium of exchange for a group of people. It can. But this idea of a global economy based around crypto that is outside gubmint is a fantasy. You can make money trading crypto, but never blind yourself to the reality of what it is and isn't.

No currency has ever existed without the stamp of the U.S. gubmint? Bold statement!

The value of a dollar is a bigger fantasy than crypto having no intrinsic value.

Tmac · Jun 15, 2021

BTC squeeze starts at blue arrow and breaks out at the red arrow showing signs of an upward run. I predicted this would happen a week further out on the 22nd, but I guess we can thank Elon for a quickening?

Sanrith Descartes · Jun 15, 2021

Tmac said:
No currency has ever existed without the stamp of the U.S. gubmint? Bold statement!

The value of a dollar is a bigger fantasy than crypto having no intrinsic value.

I think you missed the 1st sentence. Prior to paper, coins had the precious metal (silver/gold) as inherent value.

"All currency not backed by something desirable (ie.. gold, cows, corn etc) has no intrinsic value."

Arden · Jun 15, 2021

Sanrith Descartes said:
I think you missed the 1st sentence. Prior to paper, coins had the precious metal (silver/gold) as inherent value.

"All currency not backed by something desirable (ie.. gold, cows, corn etc) has no intrinsic value."

Even if you want to try and separate crypto coins from the tech (which you really can't), crypto would still have intrinsic value because the coins are backed by the tech, which, as you have acknowledged, has value.

Tmac · Jun 15, 2021

Sanrith Descartes said:
I think you missed the 1st sentence. Prior to paper, coins had the precious metal (silver/gold) as inherent value.

"All currency not backed by something desirable (ie.. gold, cows, corn etc) has no intrinsic value."

I disagree w you here. Money is several things, always, without exception:

Durable
Portable
Divisible
Uniform
Scarce
Accepted

You keep using the word intrinsic without defining what it means. If you did define it, you'd see that Bitcoin has all the qualities required for intrisic value and accomplishes them better than gold or silver, particularly the portability and divisibility pieces.

"Money is the medium through which we more easily calculate exchange ratios. Like any other tool, money saves us time. Generating time-savings is the purpose of all tools: for instance, we can dig more holes per hour using a shovel then we can with our bare hands."

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