James
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El Salvador Is Printing Money With Bitcoin
Nayib Bukele doesn’t want to ditch dollars. He just wants his own.
foreignpolicy.com
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Bitcoins/Litecoins/Virtual Currencies
- Thread starter Tripamang
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foreignpolicy.com
Best quote:
James
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The only fair and balanced position is one which acknowledges the technological limitations of Bitcoin. The Tether thing for remittances was new information to me, this shit is a disaster and not calling it out as such just fuels Bitcoin maximalist fantasies.
Tmac
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Any radically new technology is always a "fantasy" to those who do get it when it comes to widespread adoption and use-cases. Crypto as a whole is considered a fantasy. Ethereum is a fantasy. Bitcoin is a fantasy. Particularly to those who "dont get it".
Now, I don't suggest you don't get it. You've just chosen your horse. Your horse is smaller, nimble, more robust, with exponentially more use-cases. The horse you hate is big, lumbering, and has a single use case. However, what I find particularly annoying is when people saying something is a disaster, a fantasy, etc. without explaining why specifically. It simply becomes fodder. And people typically ignore fodder.
So, the fantasy, is that Bitcoin can iterate and better a key characteristic of currency, which to date has been it's practically weakest and theoretically strongest feature when it comes to daily-spending or divisibility. The limitation here being the amount of work that has to go into verifying transactions in the ledger.
The maximalists say that a layer 2 protocol that solves this problem is possible. Others say it's impossible.
If I wanted to write an article that shit all over ETH and spoke to all the ways it would fail, I could do that. If I wanted to write an article that shit all over BTC and spoke to all the ways it would fail, I could do that. Which, ultimately, is why I roll my eyes at articles that ONLY speak to why things will fail without recognizing where they're finding success. And Bitcoin is finding success and adoption, moreso than ETH. Will there be challenges, yes. Has a layer 2 protocol been use-cased to confidence, no.
Is your big frustration with BTC that you think the technicals of ETH are much better than BTC and yet BTC is getting more press, adoption, and implementation?
James
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Nope. Part of the problem here is that you think that BTC is getting more adoption and implementation than ETH, this is not the case and there are no metrics which support that. The big issue is that the philosophy behind Bitcoin makes for a horrible monetary system, but Bitcoin maximalists just keep blathering on about how decentralized it is. Yeah, all those rich people buying Bitcoin sure are going to change the world's monetary system for the better, El Salvador surely isn't trying to launder money or horde wealth. It's especially infuriating as these key issues are glossed over while dismissing Ethereum, which has lead blockchain research and innovation for the past 5 years, and propping up a non-existent BTC DeFi regime as the savior of crypto.
I'm sorry that I didn't take the time to explain that substituting BTC for Tether in remittances and then having to convert it back to BTC to deposit is a disaster even barring the possibility of total USDT collapse. Would you like to start at how Lightning is one of the worst layer 2 scaling mechanisms in place that has less BTC on it than Polygon?
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Tmac
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I have a software product. My software product is better than any of our competitors in almost every technical aspect: user experience, ease of use, reporting, data management, accessibility, integrations, etc. Based on these characteristics that we wanted to achieve (and have), when we started selling to customers I thought it would be easy to sell. It isn't. For a lot of reasons that have nothing to do w the technical aspects of our software.
You keep arguing that ETH is the "superior" use-case for reasons that you believe, but completely miss that none of that matters when it comes to adoption. The worser solution can and often does become the de facto solution.
You keep arguing that ETH is the "superior" use-case for reasons that you believe, but completely miss that none of that matters when it comes to adoption. The worser solution can and often does become the de facto solution.
swayze22
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I like ETH. and not 100% disagreeing but the main usage for ETH seems to be unsustainable shitcoin arbitrage and NFTs right now. not exactly the pinnacle of legitimacy but i guess it is being "used". i'm going to guess the bulk of ETH ownership/purchases are from the same people that own a shitload of BTC... (aka rich people)
James
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I don't know what you're not getting about ETH leading all adoption metrics.
You can hold ETH just like BTC, sure, but if you aren't actively providing it as liquidity or staking it for security, you are losing money on it. The commodity aspect of Ethereum cannot be replicated by Bitcoin L2 schemes.
Tmac
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Jive Turkey
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I still don't understand how an economy can run on a currency that is half the value that it was last month and who-knows the value next month.
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Jive Turkey
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I've been reading a lot of grumbling on twitter about people being annoyed at how quiet the dev team is. Some people even asking if the project is dead. That has to have some effect
Tmac
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This is one of the biggest problems w crypto that folks like James and the Truebit dev team don't seem to understand. Technicals matter, but are not the most important factor in adoption by far.
They gotta shill their shit if they want to be the shit.
Sanrith Descartes
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I'm sure El Salvador is used to using currencies that bounce around.
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Rajaah
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All I know for sure is that the current Truebit situation isn't really inspiring confidence or making me want to do that big buy-in. The devs absolutely need to reassure the people, because what we're seeing is a very slow bleed as opposed to any kind of crash. Psychologically that tells me that people have faith and don't want to abandon ship, so it could have a big rebound with a good nudge.
Furry
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Bounce around? It's probably like my good friend Argentina, where currencies only go up! The real bonkers about this chart is that it's purely fictional to anyone but the actual government.I'm sure El Salvador is used to using currencies that bounce around.
James
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This is specifically not true in the case of Truebit -- price is determined by tasks in the system, and there are many sections in the whitepaper which list out how to effectively price a task such that a solver wants to solve it and a verifier wants to verify it. Further, anyone can mint $TRU in the Truebit OS, so if speculation drives the price higher than the task burn rate, the supply increases with it to help keep it in line with the cost of tasks. In terms of adoption, Truebit is exclusively for developers, and the price of the $TRU token does not matter while the technical fundamentals are everything. Buying and selling the $TRU token is explicitly not the point, nor is it something the team should concern themselves with.
$LINK is another token which has used a similar marketing model, though the tokenomics are much different and the effect of speculation isn't really accounted for like it is in Truebit.
Sure, here's some easy ones to figure out: Bitcoin versus Ethereum Performance Charts and Visualizations
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cocaine?I'm sure El Salvador is used to using currencies that bounce around.
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Tmac
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Thanks!
Adoption by Transactions = ETH wins
Adoption by Users = BTC wins
Which is kind of my point. At the end of the day the number of daily active users defines the de facto kang kang of competitors. Having said that, if you wanted to argue revenue determines the king then ETH does rake in way more transaction feeds than BTC, so there's that.
Their use cases are just so wildly different tho. Which is why I don't even view the current debate as BTC vs ETH which seems to be the case. BTC is solely a currency w layer 2 protocols being implemented to effeciently spend that currency day-to-day. ETH is a digital contracts protocol w tons of projects being added to accomplish an internet computational things. Totally different.