Blizzard dies and Bobby rides

Kirun · Sep 2, 2021

I think the EQ TLPs version of "sped-up" EQ is about as "hardcore" people are willing to get with the EQ of old. EQ reskinned has about as much appeal as P99 and if you're wondering how many people would play/"want" that type of game, that's roughly the population you could expect.

EQ's "core" is still solid, even 20+ years later, and TLPs can be a blast, but the '99 version of EQ just isn't appealing to people in today's gaming market, with the amount of options we have. That isn't to say there isn't room for a "hardcore", niche MMO (look at the success of things like Dark Souls - people still love hard, brutal, and difficult content), but '99 EQ isn't it.

Kuro · Sep 2, 2021

When the first functional VR MMO comes out I probably won't give a shit about how garbage it's systems are, I'll just be standing there with a vomit-tinged smile and a stupid fucking helmet flailing at invisible gnolls

Cybsled · Sep 2, 2021

Exactly. Then 20 years after that, our brains encased in robot exoskeletons will lament how shitty it was since it lacked full sensory features and how it’s replacement and the ERP community ushered in a new era in human society where we shed our mortal bodies so we could focus on banging catgirls all day

Daidraco · Sep 2, 2021

Kuro said:
When the first functional VR MMO comes out I probably won't give a shit about how garbage it's systems are, I'll just be standing there with a vomit-tinged smile and a stupid fucking helmet flailing at invisible gnolls

They have a few already that are mildly popular in those circles. I'm too f'n lazy for all that shit. I like beat saber as an example of VR physical endurance, but f'k playing that game after I get home from work. Give me the Sword Art Online helmet Cybsled's talking about and I'll make the dive. Was really hoping we'd be further along in neural sensory development by this point. But I guess I'll be old as fuck by the time it does come out (works and is cheap enough for game use), so it'll fit perfectly.

Korzax Stonehammer · Sep 2, 2021

Pharone said:
The thing I will never understand is how in over TWO DECADES they never figured out that all we ever wanted was for them to take EverQuest and recreate it in an brand new game client. There's technically nothing wrong with the core of EverQuest other than the fact that it is living on ancient game code.

Instead, we got EverQuest 2 that was basically a new MMORPG that just stole the lore from EverQuest and butchered the fuck out of it.

Every time a "new" EverQuest is mentioned, the fucking designer(s) have to say things like it's different than EQ because of xyz. NO NO NO. Stop making it different for the fucking sake of BEING DIFFERENT. STOP IT YOU FUCKING MORONS. EverQuest was the right design for MMORPGs, and the quality of life changes made over the years (for the TLP servers of EverQuest... fuck modern EverQuest) have refined that design to near perfection.

We just need someone to take EverQuest TLP and make a new game client for it from scratch with up to date technologies. Then branch the story line for new expansions to pick up RIGHT AFTER Shadows of Luclin. Fuck the other expansions that came after Luclin. Seriously. Fuck them.

Fuck luclin too.

Araxen · Sep 2, 2021

I didn't care for Luclin either. I quit half way through the expansion, and moved on to DAOC.

Daidraco · Sep 2, 2021

Wasnt the lore exactly that made me not enjoy Luclin as much, but the atmosphere of the different zones. But I do recall enjoying the AA's being added. Gave me some other reason to log in besides raiding for a change. Shit burns me out if I go too hard for too long, even to this day.

Cybsled · Sep 2, 2021

Araxen said:
I didn't care for Luclin either. I quit half way through the expansion, and moved on to DAOC.

I recall our guilds lost a lot of players around Luclin/end of Velious. When we woke the sleeper, I recall it took a lot of convincing to get dozens of people to come back for the fight.

Valorath · Sep 2, 2021

Man for some reason I thought it was Coterie Nocturne that woke the sleeper on Cazic-Thule. Guess it was SS/TR after BFA broke up? I remember being salty, until I got my primal war lance, and then I didn’t care anymore.

Cybsled · Sep 2, 2021

Nah, CN quit the server mid to Early Velious.

I can't remember if we woke Sleeper late Velious or extremely early Luclin. I am thinking late Velious, because the server was livid the primal pipeline was cutoff and it was still the BFA (EOD+TR). I think one other guild joined us to wake sleeper. Cohorts maybe? I forget.

All I remember is that Shadestorm and Thornsong set it up so I had to roll against TR's main monk (Soel I think) for the sleeper robe. I won the roll and got the only robe to ever drop on the server since the Wardens no longer spawned after that. I was still wearing that shit in PoP ;P That item was godly.

After EOD died in PoP, I tried to apply to SS and was rejected for "war crimes", the war crime in question pictured below lol

Valorath · Sep 2, 2021

Ah yea forgot you guys were EOD at that point and not SS. I was in Cohort and we weren’t a part of waking the sleeper. Think we only had 8-10 keys. We farmed trash to get the few primals, mine included, that we got.

Cybsled · Sep 3, 2021

Ya, EOD split off from SS very very early Kunark or late vanilla. SS was almost completely dead in early Kunark (prime time there would literally only be like 2-3 people online during expansion launch) and I don't think they really recovered until maybe Velious?

Actually, now that I think about it, EOD might not have split from SS until Kunark. I remember us running City of Mist as a guild and people who eventually were in EOD were there and Mace of the Shadowed Souls dropped and the guild leader claimed it was named as such because of a dev they were friends with.

Kirun · Sep 3, 2021

Daidraco said:
Wasnt the lore exactly that made me not enjoy Luclin as much, but the atmosphere of the different zones. But I do recall enjoying the AA's being added. Gave me some other reason to log in besides raiding for a change. Shit burns me out if I go too hard for too long, even to this day.

Luclin was shitty because almost ALL of the original designers had left for Sigil by that point, or were pulled over to EQ2/Sovreign. It was almost entirely done by apprentices and folks that hadn't been there long. Most of its "best" parts were done by guys who had been there a while, like Todd. Bill Fisher was pulled in to implement VT in 1 week, then went right to Sigil - it's part of why the key quest is such a fucking massive PITA, because the zone wasn't even accessible until a week after launch and they needed a way to "stall".

Kuro · Sep 3, 2021

If the zone events had ever actually worked they would have been cool. They also tried to recapture the sweet race specific armor-weapons quests of the iksar with the vah shit, but the vah shit were weird furries instead of evil lizardmen, so who gave a shit.

Edit: Phone autocorrected Vah Shir, don't feel arsed to fix it.

Neranja · Sep 3, 2021

Pharone said:
Maybe... just maybe... EverQuest isn't what you want to play. Just saying.

You made it sound like SOE wasn't aware that they should just keep making an EverQuest with a modern client, in a thread called "Blizzard is dying" of all things.

WoW was never an EverQuest with a modern client. WoW broke down all the EQ systems, especially the classes, and built them back into something new.

The key difference here is: EQ had the first mover advantage, but WoW built a more interactive and involved core gameplay loop. Paired with solo progress options that were contrary to fundamental EQ design, WoW is a wildly different game compared to EQ.

Even SOE tried to make EQ combat faster in PoP, but that failed when slowing mobs became necessary. EQ2 combat was a more modern try, and even tried to copy something like FFXI attack chains.

In the end, it is very hard to sell old school EQ combat to anyone, except for some ... special cases. The surrounding game design around the core gameplay, like class and player interdependence is mostly realized by making group/raid content for modern games. As such, a "real" EverQuest will never work out again, ever, even with a modern client.

Xarpolis · Sep 3, 2021

Cybsled said:
Nah, CN quit the server mid to Early Velious.

I can't remember if we woke Sleeper late Velious or extremely early Luclin. I am thinking late Velious, because the server was livid the primal pipeline was cutoff and it was still the BFA (EOD+TR). I think one other guild joined us to wake sleeper. Cohorts maybe? I forget.

All I remember is that Shadestorm and Thornsong set it up so I had to roll against TR's main monk (Soel I think) for the sleeper robe. I won the roll and got the only robe to ever drop on the server since the Wardens no longer spawned after that. I was still wearing that shit in PoP ;P That item was godly.

After EOD died in PoP, I tried to apply to SS and was rejected for "war crimes", the war crime in question pictured below lol

View attachment 370740

I remember Zeta, but I don't remember why. He was a wizard, right? If so, that's probably why. The old "uber wizard cross server chat" channel.
I played on Tarew Marr. My guild was Enlightened Dark, and we by far had server control on everything. The moment guild #2 had enough ST keys to actually go after anything, we woke Kerafyrm up. It was a really dick move on our part, but it made the guild leadership happy.

The last Ancient to die was the one with the Monk robe. We had never killed him previously, but on the first and only kill, he dropped 3 of those fucking robes. Our monks were ecstatic.

Cybsled · Sep 3, 2021

Ya, Zeta was a wizard. He was one of the few guildies I ever met IRL.

I think our motives for waking the sleeper were similar to yours, beyond the "we will be server first", the guild leadership wanted to cutoff the "easy primals" access for everyone and essentially make all the farmed warden loot unique. With the exception of Ventani who we only killed once, we had killed the other Wardens dozens of times and shit was starting to rot/even alts had the things. I remember we would be assholes and go to vendors and hand them uber loot when lots of people were nearby and the NPC would say stuff like "Thanks for the Primal Great Sword, soandso!"

We also used to sacrifice stuff to the invisible npc 'Spawnmaster' in ToV as a joke, saying that it would bring good luck in loot drops later

Pharone · Sep 3, 2021

Neranja said:
You made it sound like SOE wasn't aware that they should just keep making an EverQuest with a modern client, in a thread called "Blizzard is dying" of all things.

WoW was never an EverQuest with a modern client. WoW broke down all the EQ systems, especially the classes, and built them back into something new.

The key difference here is: EQ had the first mover advantage, but WoW built a more interactive and involved core gameplay loop. Paired with solo progress options that were contrary to fundamental EQ design, WoW is a wildly different game compared to EQ.

Even SOE tried to make EQ combat faster in PoP, but that failed when slowing mobs became necessary. EQ2 combat was a more modern try, and even tried to copy something like FFXI attack chains.

In the end, it is very hard to sell old school EQ combat to anyone, except for some ... special cases. The surrounding game design around the core gameplay, like class and player interdependence is mostly realized by making group/raid content for modern games. As such, a "real" EverQuest will never work out again, ever, even with a modern client.

Yet every new TLP server is packed full of people... every... single... time. All those people must just be stupid because why would they want to play EverQuest with it's archaic game play? Right...

Come on. Mass generalizations don't do anybody any good. We all know that there are WoW fans, FFXIV fans, EQ fans, and everything in between. The point I was making when I said "all we ever wanted" was from the perspective of EQ fans; not WoW fans. That's the whole point I was making when I said "maybe you don't want to play EverQuet". For those people who DO want to play EverQuest, all they ever wanted was EQ on a brand new server and game client. That's it.

It's like how people used to say that those who didn't like Star Wars Galaxies were just people who wanted EQ in space. Well yeah. Duh. I did want EQ in space. But, you know what... I didn't sit over on the SWG forums trying to convince them to change SWG to what I wanted. I realized the game was not for me, and I went back to EQ.

You have to realize what you like, what you don't, and accept that some things just aren't for you. You don't like EQ game play. That's fine. There's literally thousands of other MMORPGs made after EQ that are NOT like it. I am absolutely sure you can find one you like.

Oh and yes... I did reply in a Blizzard thread about EverQuest. The topic of EverQuest was brought up by a former Daybreak Game developer in this thread. I was replying to him about the topic he was talking about.

Cybsled · Sep 3, 2021

Pharone said:
Yet every new TLP server is packed full of people... every... single... time. All those people must just be stupid because why would they want to play EverQuest with it's archaic game play? Right...

Right, but a single server packed with what is essentially the current fanbase still only equates out to a few thousand, maybe.

No one is saying there aren't fans of the EQ1 model. What we are saying is there isn't enough of a fanbase to warrant what is essentially multi-million dollar reskin unless some rich person is self-funding it as a passion project

RobXIII · Sep 3, 2021

Pharone said:
Yet every new TLP server is packed full of people... every... single... time. All those people must just be stupid because why would they want to play EverQuest with it's archaic game play? Right...

Come on. Mass generalizations don't do anybody any good. We all know that there are WoW fans, FFXIV fans, EQ fans, and everything in between. The point I was making when I said "all we ever wanted" was from the perspective of EQ fans; not WoW fans. That's the whole point I was making when I said "maybe you don't want to play EverQuet". For those people who DO want to play EverQuest, all they ever wanted was EQ on a brand new server and game client. That's it.

It's like how people used to say that those who didn't like Star Wars Galaxies were just people who wanted EQ in space. Well yeah. Duh. I did want EQ in space. But, you know what... I didn't sit over on the SWG forums trying to convince them to change SWG to what I wanted. I realized the game was not for me, and I went back to EQ.

You have to realize what you like, what you don't, and accept that some things just aren't for you. You don't like EQ game play. That's fine. There's literally thousands of other MMORPGs made after EQ that are NOT like it. I am absolutely sure you can find one you like.

Oh and yes... I did reply in a Blizzard thread about EverQuest. The topic of EverQuest was brought up by a former Daybreak Game developer in this thread. I was replying to him about the topic he was talking about.

Most of that is from the excitement of a 'fresh' server launch, where everyone is usually super social, and there's always a lot going on. I can't explain why I've done TLE launches like 60 times now, but it's fun for a lot of us. Though I'm sicker than most, I've also done most of the EQ2 TLE launches, including the lame 'event' server

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