Board Games

slippery said:

I've been looking at Frosthaven for a few friends. It will be our first delve into that type of game. Should we just dive in head first, or are there other similar style games that might not be as overwhelming for lighter gamers?

I've been slowly getting them into board games. Dead of Winter, Lords of Waterdeep, and Caverna are ones we've played so far. Along with simpler things like Splendor.

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Frosthaven isn't fun.

I mean - it is, but it isn't. Allow me to elaborate.

Frosthaven has multiple mechanics that seem like they're cool, and then slowly turn into a slog or are too cumbersome for the effort. Alchemy, Outpost Phase, crafting, loot deck, challenges, trials, all of it. On top of that, if you are playing 4p, virtually every enemy in the game is elite, so scenarios turn into this giant slog.

Some of the classes are fun, but others have annoying mechanics that lead to more micromanagement than you should realistically have to do in a board game. In addition, I am not a fan of the new card layout and don't like needing a decoder ring to figure out what the hieroglyphics on the card say.

I want to like the game, it's a cool concept. It has cool ideas. But it's just - not as fun as gloomhaven or Crimson Scales. Considering the people designing frosthaven seem to think it's a massive improvement over both, I don't expect Gloomhaven 2E to ever be good either.

I can't believe FH doesn't have a fail safe system for some of the buildings, we are 80% of the way through our campaign and just unlocked a significant option that came so early in GH. Tying class unlocks to random events or story events has meant we have had multiple retirements without new class options, the GH method was such cleaner imo

slippery said:

This is probably a solid idea

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If they do end up liking Jaws, I'd recommend going to Gloomhaven 1.0 first. As mentioned, FH changed several things around and they're not necessarily better than GH's systems. Doubly so recommended since you said they're new to complex games.

slippery said:

I was having trouble finding Gloomhaven available anywhere

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Probably because that faggot hired a bunch of other faggots to crater his own fucking business.

See the Kickstarter thread.

Hateyou said:

The Gloomhaven game on Steam is extremely well done if you want to try the systems on your own before you buy, although Jaws of the Lion is so cheap it’s probably still the best route to try with the group.

My dad has played the shit out of the Steam version, and also plays with the physical as it’s still just a different experience. He thinks he just got through every scenario with his playthrough he ended last week.

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Yeah I've been playing the digital version on and off. Completed a full campaign and am doing an online co-op guildmaster game with a couple friends (2 of the 3 I play IRL with). It's a solid game, although the interface and controls take some getting used to.

I tried to sell my (totally unplayed) Gloomhaven for 50 bucks a year or two ago and couldn’t get a single bite off FB marketplace or Craigslist.

It’s just too much to deal with without a static enough board gaming group.

Most of these companies are so fucking far behind on their kickstarter fullfillment that they could have finished their shipping a year late and still had time to spare before Trump ever took office. To those companies (especially Peterson Games), I say first fuck you for trying to save a buck over seas and second this is just another bullshit excuse for not delivering the fucking product. The ones who used local sourcing are not having these issues, but others like Leider and and Peterson Games are years behind schedule and now suddenly crying "muh tarrifs" can go bullshit someone else.

Mr Creed said:

I think complexity creep in Frosthaven leads to a more tedious experience overall.

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So much extra work for the sake of "balance". Every character has to do so much setup just to all average like 1-2dmg extra a round average over doing basic 2dmg attacks. Im currently playing the trap icon class, sure I can drop a 13dmg attack but that requires a very specific 3 turn setup... which averages to 4 damage a round. I have drawn the cancel attack on that before as well which means I just wasted 3 whole turns, which means you also need to work in advantage sources to increase the complexity

Meanwhile in Gloomhaven I just get to look at a card and toss out an attack, maybe for specific classes I need to plan an elemental cycle but if you do the payoff was usually pretty massive like adding pierece, xp, or a status affect

Indyocracy said:

So much extra work for the sake of "balance". Every character has to do so much setup just to all average like 1-2dmg extra a round average over doing basic 2dmg attacks. Im currently playing the trap icon class, sure I can drop a 13dmg attack but that requires a very specific 3 turn setup... which averages to 4 damage a round. I have drawn the cancel attack on that before as well which means I just wasted 3 whole turns, which means you also need to work in advantage sources to increase the complexity

Meanwhile in Gloomhaven I just get to look at a card and toss out an attack, maybe for specific classes I need to plan an elemental cycle but if you do the payoff was usually pretty massive like adding pierece, xp, or a status affect

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Very few classes in FH feel fun.

Banner Spear? Assuming you're in a big party and can get allies, sure
Boneshaper? Assume you have someone to tank the hits so your skeletons don't instadie? Sure.
Geminate? No.
Blinkblade - yes.
Deathwalker - not really
Drifter. Weee! Move 4 attack 4 oh shit I accidentally lost that card move 2 for rest of scenario.
Astral - didn't like him, too much effort for not enough reward.
Meteor - everyone creams themselves over how powerful he is, performed mediocre for me
Shards - guy who played him retired at level 3, if that tells you how much he cared for hi..
Shackles - everyone says it's fun. Never played.
Trap - no reason this needs to be a 9 card class
Fist - gimmick leads to repetitive turns
Snowflake - got one of those classes with nifty overlay tiles? Pretty good. Don't? Go fuck yourself then.
Kelp and Coral - the most fun bar none in the entire game. Not even close.
Prism - too much work.
Drill - see trap.

Compare that to Gloomhaven or Crimson Scales where you can legitimately have fun on almost every class and not need to try very hard and the classes just feel good. That's to say nothing of the fact that GH2 changed all the classes because reasons, so now you cant be a brute or a scoundrel anymore you've gotta be a bruiser or a silent knife, whatever the fuck that is.

Faggots. The lot of them. No idea what made the game great. Same fate as borderlands.