Camelot Unchained MMO

Abefroman_sl said:

I've never had attachments to characters. I've made attachments to people I have met and still play with people that I met in EQ. Some of that is because as you say a longer leveling process. I just don't see that being viable anymore. People don't want to take 6 months to level anymore. There is simply too much competition out there and those days are dead.

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I couldn't disagree more. People are looking at competition because most of the newest games suck and can't hold most people's attention more than a month or so. If your game doesn't suck people will keep playing it. That is the bottom line.

It is true that DAOC had some leveling loop holes, but one thing that DAOC did great was encourage group leveling. The max group size was 8, and forming a leveling group was actually quite an advantage. You had consistent pulls with little to no down time, and also safety in numbers from EXP/CON loss deaths. This made dungeons very, very popular and it was common for years after release to see lots of the public dungeons full of groups and solos on a regular basis.

Now if you took the time to commit to a server, like was already said, you could build up some PvE specific characters. And with a few friends you guys could level up alts quite quickly.. especially in the frontier dungeons where there was bonus exp as a reward for risking player encounters.

mkopec_sl said:

Your entire thinking process is "end game" and thats whats wrong with todays mmorpgs. If you make the leveling game compelling and fun and give people more shit to do other than collect 10 bear ass skins, who fucking cares how long it takes you to level? Games need to go away from "the real game begins at max level bullshit"

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Name me one mmo where people didn't go for the easiest method for exp and instead went for "fun".

Kedwyn_sl said:

I couldn't disagree more. People are looking at competition because most of the newest games suck and can't hold most people's attention more than a month or so. If your game doesn't suck people will keep playing it. That is the bottom line.

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That's because the majority of mmo gamers are a bunch of drug addicts looking to reproduce that first high they got from the first mmo they played. Every single guild vent and TS3 server is filled with gamers that do nothing but non stop reminiscing about the good old days like they are a bunch of crusty fucking 70 year olds who walked uphill to school. Nothing is going to hold these peoples attention because they live in the past.

mkopec_sl said:

All of them. Just because you chose to play this way does not necessarily mean everyone does. I knew people in EQ, WoW, SWTOR, AO that didnt care about end game and never even had a max level character. They enjoyed the leveling and alts, twinking, etc.

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I don't play that way but thanks for missing the point. I'm talking about the MMO playerbase in general. You are speaking from the minority with your friends. Most people go for the quickest path and usually the least fun. Blaming it on the new games isn't being very honest.

mkopec_sl said:

All of them. Just because you chose to play this way does not necessarily mean everyone does. I knew people in EQ, WoW, SWTOR, AO that didnt care about end game and never even had a max level character. They enjoyed the leveling and alts, twinking, etc.

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I generally enjoy leveling more than the endgame in current mmos. Usually when (if) I get to max level on my main, then I just start playing my alts more. Leveling content is usually much more interesting than endgame content in most mmos.

I'm not against playing more of the endgame in a mmo. But the current endgame content fad of mmos consists of grinding dailies, instanced dungeons and instanced battlegrounds, none of which interest me in any way.

mkopec_sl said:

This should tell you something about the state of todays mmos.

And FYI, I enjoyed not just EQ, but AO, and WoW until Wrath.

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It tells you more about the playerbase stuck in the past.

Abefroman_sl said:

I don't play that way but thanks for missing the point. I'm talking about the MMO playerbase in general. You are speaking from the minority with your friends. Most people go for the quickest path and usually the least fun. Blaming it on the new games isn't being very honest.

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And yet every mmo that caters to the masses that you say want this fast jump to endgame has failed.. except the king of that style, WoW.

Grim1_sl said:

And yet every mmo that caters to the masses that you say want this fast jump to endgame has failed.. except the king of that style, WoW.

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That's because they keep trying to do what WoW does. It has nothing to do with leveling time, it has everything to do with copying what is already done well. GW2 is really the only game that has taken a chance to do something different and they are being rewarded by a growing playerbase.

mkopec_sl said:

Wha? Fuck yeah I blame the games. I bame wow most of all for focusing on this shitty treadmill grind bullshit that they call the end game. And then everyone else just copied, because you know, the 10 million subs and shit.

You honestly blame the people when they specifically say "the REAL game begins at 60"? or 90 now? Might as well give everyone a LV90 and start the grind then. Which im sure is coming up. Probably a cash thing they will introduce soon.

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I'm not saying your wrong in wanting a longer leveling process. I'm saying that a longer leveling process doesn't mean it's going to be better. I also don't think any studio is going to take the chance in making a grind or longer leveling experience and risk losing money with todays playerbase.

Abefroman_sl said:

That's because they keep trying to do what WoW does. It has nothing to do with leveling time, it has everything to do with copying what is already done well. GW2 is really the only game that has taken a chance to do something different and they are being rewarded by a growing playerbase.

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Actually, GW2 is losing players, lots of them. A huge reason for that is that their PvE endgame consists of grinding dailies and instanced dungeons for plus 1 stat loot. They copied WoW's craptastic model and people are leaving because of it.

The only thing unique in GW2 is WvW and the jumping puzzles.

Grim1_sl said:

Actually, GW2 is losing players. A huge reason for that is that their PvE endgame consists of grinding dailies and instanced dungeons for plus 1 stat loot. They copied WoW's craptastic model and people are leaving because of it.

The only thing unique in GW2 is WvW and the jumping puzzles.

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Actually it's gaining players and has sold over 3 million copies total after the initial surge and decrease.

mkopec_sl said:

Then the industry and we lose then. Because no one wants another shitty wow clone.

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You have several games that look like they aren't WoW clones coming in the future. Star Citizen, ArchAge and more. I bet you that if those are successful or not will have nothing to do with amount of time it takes to get to max level.

GW2 doesn't need a large playerbase, they need to sell a lot of boxes. They did. They are incredibly successful. Most successful MMO after WOW. People playing these games don't want to slog through tedious weeks of leveling to max out. They want to max out as soon as possible. But they will spend 6 months gearing up though. That's the crux. Make leveling fast as hell, so devote 15% of your content to it, then make a game that is fun to get gear and other shit with the rest of the 85%. Today's games need to be the polar opposite of your thinking. In the end it's really window dressing though.

You want months of leveling then start the gear grind.

I want hours of leveling (under 20, or the length of a single player game), but then spend the bulk of my hours gearing out my character, doing PVP. Leveling is something people view "they have to do". But someone will have no problem hanging out in game and grind a dungeon or two a night. For some reason doing 20 dungeons for the hell of it is fine to get 200 tokens. But doing 20 dungeons to get 10 levels is boring. At least the gear you're getting at this point sticks around for a while.

See where I'm getting at?

Abefroman_sl said:

Actually it's gaining players and has sold over 3 million copies total after the initial surge and decrease.

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Oh, they are still selling boxes that's for sure and they are not a failure. But more people are leaving the game than new ones coming in. The actual amount of people logging has been decreasing drastically for some time now. The lower tier servers are ghost towns, even most mid tier servers have a serious lack of population logging in.

Most new players love the leveling process in GW2, it is fun. Not as fun as at launch though, since most leveling zones are empty. But the endgame is where they lose players. The PvE endgame for GW2 is really bad. If they don't like WvW or SPvP then most players leave the game soon after reaching max level, if they even get that far.

Its all grind its when it feels like a grind then the boredom sets in..the very life blood of this genere is hamster wheels its just how good you want to disguise that wheel..