Censorship and Art

Lithose

Lithose

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AngryGerbil said:
Honest question.

What do you say to an ISIS executioner who claims that his beheaded victims are all works of religious art?
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Sane person: It's not.

Postmodern artist: Thought provoking, stunning and brave. It epitomizes the rage oppressed Muslims feel within their communities; how even at their most powerful they eliminate the very thing that could behold their power, making them impotent with fury. It captures the masochistic essence of the pain that the white male as inflicted on these people, and how they've been lead away from real Islam, a religion of peace. It metaphorically (And literally, before the man dies) screams about how Muslims are the real victims, robbed of their religion, and forced to kill by the onerous nature of cis-white-patriarchal western culture.
 
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iannis

iannis

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Sentagur said:
Well that Yoko "performance piece" does induce an emotion, but it is not a pleasant one and it is very similar to the fight or flight response. Kinda panic mixed in with anger and disgust(this last one might be because of the context that some people consider it art)
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What's really strangest about it is that when you listen to her talk about it (yeah, I have, I don't suggest anyone else does) she'll make the case that it's about personal growth and liberty. I mean look she's legitimately dumb as shit and drug addled almost beyond comprehension, but that's what she's trying to say. And you know, even though I have a distaste for it... I could give her that.

But she's been doing the exact same thing for her entire life. Theory and Practice diverge. It wasn't even creative when she started doing it. Both the idea and the fact of "incomprehensible screaming" predates her by ten years. Formally and informally.
 
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Feanor

Feanor

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Lithose said:
He did misunderstand the question, and it absolutely matters--because its the point of the argument. No one confused anything, Feanor. Postmodernist art is an art philosophy that is critical of values in art. Through the elimination of values the hope was to expand the creativity in art by allowing more things to be art.

You don't deny this is the definition, most artists will tell you they don't want art defined because its subjective. That's fine. Then again, the question is what the fuck is art? If ANYTHING is art, then the walls in your home can be masterpieces. Why not? If tomorrow the art community got together, came to your house and said "the man who painted this, Tim Mcfuckstick, was found to be an art genius, and his roller pattern painting here is just exceptional--these are now the greatest art pieces in the world." That would be all it takes for them to be highly valued.

Which is an illustration that art has become more social status within a specific community than actual stimulation from a piece. You could shit on a plate and if a few major art houses wrote about your genius, and then appraised it at 10 million dollars, it would be a significant piece of modern art. Because that is all modern art requires.

Again, this is modern art in one of the most prestigious museums for it IN the world. A place 99.9% of 'artists' will NEVER be able to get their work into.


Now, if Yoko Ono had not fucked John Lennon, and she was screaming like that--you guys think she'd be invited to the museum, or do you think someone would tell her to shut the fuck up and/or think she was having a mental break?

Yeah. Modern art is about who knows you, personally, not about the work. Many of the premier pieces in modern art would not be recognizable as any attempt at art to anyone outside the field if you were to include them in a randomized ink blot test. Meanwhile, try doing that with a classical artists work--think no one would be able to recognize it as art? If you answer these questions honestly, you'll see why you, as an artist, are so troubled by this. You shouldn't be angry at me for that, be angry at the shitstains that are trying to turn your medium into some kind of political statement, and social club. It's shitty for artists.
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There are pop artists who support devaluing skill while others do the opposite.

You already answered my question.
Feanor said:
Is taste/art personal/subjective
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Standards start from there.

None of you were addressing art but shitty epistemology. I get what you're saying and I agree but we are still dealing with a larger scope of history you haven't criticized yet.
 
Feanor

Feanor

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Caught up w last page. Iannis made some fair points.
iannis said:
I don't really expect an alien civilization would be able to draw any specific conclusions from our art. They might realize that we HAVE art, and that's a pretty big thing to realize.

But art requires context to be meaningful. Without the glory of Austria Beethoven is just a smattering of self consistent euphony. Which would tell you something. But the man was telling you something very specific. He was relating observations. Without the context you could not possibly know it or be expected to know it.

There is a school of thought in which art does not require context. It's an interesting philosophical position. It's also demonstrably false. Any time an artifact is observed context is created. The only situation in which art exists devoid of context is the situation in which art does not exist. Interesting. Not particularly insightful or relevant. And meta. You can very much see how that philosophy is born out of and a reaction to rapid technological change. Change so rapid that we can barely adapt to it -- and it may be that we actually cannot adapt to it this quickly.

And that's why you get self-conflicting nonsense like post modernism.
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The idea of some douche following an artistic philosophy is mind numbing.

Lithose said:
does art have a classification?

In short, Micahelangelo didn't on and on
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It should and does have classifications. Too many dumb statements in your post tbh, man. Nothing you said lacks conjecture and it lowers your opinion. We seem to disagree to a basic extent.

All genres and art forms have good and bad material. I've already said as much and won't bother going in circles.

modern_art_sold_for_bank_13.jpg

Still art.

Still art.


Add to your batch.
 
Lithose

Lithose

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Pineapple gets left at museum, museum proceeds to put it in glass case and people come to look at the art. Last year glasses left on the floor drew large crowds to examine the daring art piece.

art-glasses.jpg


Sorry Feanor Feanor I'm just now sure how you segregated art from epistemology when you've reached such a critical mass on the latter that people who visit art museums (Which you could generally assume are far more interested than most of the human population in art) can't tell what art is. Artists like this are no longer attempting to communicate something with art, they are simply attempting to cull the population of people who 'get it' and can join their social club with more and more ridiculous abstraction.


Feanor said:
View attachment 137406
Still art.

Still art.
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No, no--you don't get to call that bad art. Those artists are displayed more predominantly and have generated more wealthy than most artists will ever dream of. This is an example of EXCEPTIONALLY good art.

Your ideology has raped your profession, and you're defending it. =-/...I have no idea why. But sure, if you put a pineapple on a stand in the right museum, you too, can make art.
 
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Sentagur

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Lithose said:
Pineapple gets left at museum, museum proceeds to put it in glass case and people come to look at the art. Last year glasses left on the floor drew large crowds to examine the daring art piece.

View attachment 138305

Sorry Feanor Feanor I'm just now sure how you segregated art from epistemology when you've reached such a critical mass on the latter that people who visit art museums (Which you could generally assume are far more interested than most of the human population in art) can't tell what art is. Artists like this are no longer attempting to communicate something with art, they are simply attempting to cull the population of people who 'get it' and can join their social club with more and more ridiculous abstraction.




No, no--you don't get to call that bad art. Those artists are displayed more predominantly and have generated more wealthy than most artists will ever dream of. This is an example of EXCEPTIONALLY good art.

Your ideology has raped your profession, and you're defending it. =-/...I have no idea why. But sure, if you put a pineapple on a stand in the right museum, you too, can make art.
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I am sorry but i can not consider anything Yoko Ono does as art, she is just trying too hard and the only emotion she causes is annoyance.
The only artistic bone she had in her body was John Lennon's!
 
Feanor

Feanor

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Lithose said:
Pineapple gets left at museum, museum proceeds to put it in glass case and people come to look at the art. Last year glasses left on the floor drew large crowds to examine the daring art piece.

View attachment 138305

Sorry Feanor Feanor I'm just now sure how you segregated art from epistemology when you've reached such a critical mass on the latter that people who visit art museums (Which you could generally assume are far more interested than most of the human population in art) can't tell what art is. Artists like this are no longer attempting to communicate something with art, they are simply attempting to cull the population of people who 'get it' and can join their social club with more and more ridiculous abstraction.




No, no--you don't get to call that bad art. Those artists are displayed more predominantly and have generated more wealthy than most artists will ever dream of. This is an example of EXCEPTIONALLY good art.

Your ideology has raped your profession, and you're defending it. =-/...I have no idea why. But sure, if you put a pineapple on a stand in the right museum, you too, can make art.
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I'm not a painter. You are supporting an ideological sentiment, not me.

What I am defending is weirdness. Original and creative shit is weird at first then it gets absorbed. Admittedly that is not postmodernism unless you consider say Metallica postmodern.

Every example you have given is bad except one. This painting View attachment 137406 is okay. Wouldn't call it great but I like atmospheric shit. Yoko Ono is terrible.

Tanya Tagaq is what Yoko wished she was. Tagaq is an inuit throat singer. Her style is highly expressive and not traditional. You may not add it to your favorites anytime soon but there is evident skill involved.

The Ligeti piece is difficult to sing. You may find it boring but once again, skill.

Radiohead. Even the visual aspect requires knowing what you are doing. May not be your cup of tea but is it art? Yes.

Would you agree that good weirdness is acceptable? All three examples run counter to yours.

Or is this western civilization's greatest achievement? Deep questions, deeper answers.
Sample 4
 
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AngryGerbil

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Tanoomba

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Mario Speedwagon said:
A Mexican-American Photographer’s Body, On Display and Invisible
By curling against the rocky ground, or stretching out along the edge of a lagoon, Aguilar makes the curves and shadows of her round body echo beautifully the shapes of the landscape around her.
hart-aguilar-06.jpg

Tanoomba Tanoomba thinks this is art
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Well, landscape photography can be art, right? Somebody found an interesting formation of a bunch of boulders and took a nice shot of it. Don't be such a hater.
 
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