Grizzlebeard
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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It’s more about would we care about the outcome? Would the lives of everyday Americans benefit as a result of all that slaughter or would you return as business as usual?
Civil War (2024)
- Thread starter Cybsled
- Start date
It’s more about would we care about the outcome? Would the lives of everyday Americans benefit as a result of all that slaughter or would you return as business as usual?
Mist
Eeyore Enthusiast
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6 weeks.
But again, at the point where we're in that condition, America IS being actively invaded by our enemies. And it wouldn't matter how 'unified' we are against it when there's less than half of us left.
Again, this is all nonsense. Any conflict or catastrophe that's localized to the US immediately leads to the breakdown of society. At which point, the wolves that have been at the door for a century only have to wait a few weeks, maybe a month or two to have their pick of whatever is left.
Chuk off the top ropes with the truth bombs.
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Aldarion
Egg Nazi
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You keep insisting on this.
Shall I assume that if we look up lets say, the last half a dozen or so civil wars that happened worldwide, would we find that in each case "their enemies immediately invaded?"
I don't feel like playing wikipedia tag, but I'm pretty sure thats not the case.
If we really wanted to we could go back to the first US civil war. Can you remind the class how many foreign countries invaded us that time?
I'm not even saying its impossible or a crazy idea. Just that its not at all obvious or some kind of foregone conclusion like you keep suggesting.
DickTrickle
Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
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It's not like we're in Europe or something. We have two massive oceans that present a huge logistical hurdle to any serious power that would want to hurt us. I could see us losing bases overseas but the idea of the American mainland being invaded or anything like that is pretty extreme. We still have nukes, as well.
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Mist
Eeyore Enthusiast
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No other countries consume 25% of the world's resources due to sitting atop a massive global trade network, a trade network that would immediately breakdown and cause mass starvation, further civil disorder, and probably cannibalism. That's what you're missing.
Also, there are very few countries in the world actually worth the effort of seizing them. Arable land + oil + nat gas alone make America the most prized parcel on earth.
TBT-TheBigToe
Gemcutter
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Aldarion
Egg Nazi
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The proposition was not that Europe would support one side or the other financially.
The proposition was a boots on the ground invasion of American would definitely 100% happen in the event of a civil war.
The best I'm getting in response is "ok its not something that happens normally but this time it definitely would". Like I said, its not even a crazy idea. But when youre proposing something that generally doesnt happen is gonna happen this time, acting all certain about it just comes off as ridiculous.
The proposition was a boots on the ground invasion of American would definitely 100% happen in the event of a civil war.
The best I'm getting in response is "ok its not something that happens normally but this time it definitely would". Like I said, its not even a crazy idea. But when youre proposing something that generally doesnt happen is gonna happen this time, acting all certain about it just comes off as ridiculous.
Caliane
Avatar of War Slayer
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Foreign invasion of the U.S. after a civil war would be very questionable. Who would have that power? you need a navy. Who would let them? Like, it would require Russia and China to agree to do it, and split up what they grab. EU, UK, and Canada would have to let it happen. Alternatively, its instantly WW3.
Ain't nobody want that mess. its like why no one takes North Korea.
A more "reasonable" foreign invasion would be Mexico claiming huge chunks of US land, and possibly even Canada. Like, in that screenshot the "unaligned northwestern states". Canada would very likely try claiming them. Mexico would take southern California. Less invasions, more Annexation.
china would then gain control through mexico by buying it.
Also, they would all attack each other. China would be too busy taking Japan, and Taiwan, Russia all of eastern europe, etc. Russia might take Alaska.
Ain't nobody want that mess. its like why no one takes North Korea.
A more "reasonable" foreign invasion would be Mexico claiming huge chunks of US land, and possibly even Canada. Like, in that screenshot the "unaligned northwestern states". Canada would very likely try claiming them. Mexico would take southern California. Less invasions, more Annexation.
china would then gain control through mexico by buying it.
Also, they would all attack each other. China would be too busy taking Japan, and Taiwan, Russia all of eastern europe, etc. Russia might take Alaska.
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TBT-TheBigToe
Gemcutter
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Things they didn't have in the first Civil War;
- Planes
- Aircraft Carriers
- Battleships
- Buses
- Giant transportation ships
- Embedded cells within the USA (i.e., Chinese Police stations, Islamic extremists, 5-10% of the population being there illegally)
- Satellite capabilities
- Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles
- all this and much, much MORE!!!!
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Aldarion
Egg Nazi
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That was an afterthought, but you sure loved to jump on it like it was the main argument. We can stick with civil wars in the modern era if you like.
Out of the last lets say 5-10 civil wars that have happened on planet earth, how many of them saw a foreign country invading in response? I genuinely don't know the answer here but I strongly suspect its close to 0.
Its just a fucking off the wall thing to be so certain about. Its one of the dumbest things about online discourse. Everybody has to be so fucking sure about everything. On this forum alone, we've got people who can identify the exact details of military explosives from a grainy tiktok video, calculate the precise volume of seawater needed to flood the Hamas tunnels, and in this case predict the exact consequences of a civil war - consequences that they're really sure about even though there is apparently little precedent for it happening.
but ok! noted, we're definitely getting invaded, much of the future remains a little uncertain but that detail is carved in stone.
Out of the last lets say 5-10 civil wars that have happened on planet earth, how many of them saw a foreign country invading in response? I genuinely don't know the answer here but I strongly suspect its close to 0.
Its just a fucking off the wall thing to be so certain about. Its one of the dumbest things about online discourse. Everybody has to be so fucking sure about everything. On this forum alone, we've got people who can identify the exact details of military explosives from a grainy tiktok video, calculate the precise volume of seawater needed to flood the Hamas tunnels, and in this case predict the exact consequences of a civil war - consequences that they're really sure about even though there is apparently little precedent for it happening.
but ok! noted, we're definitely getting invaded, much of the future remains a little uncertain but that detail is carved in stone.
TBT-TheBigToe
Gemcutter
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Dude, I am not arguing either point. I am just pointing out that your argument was fucking retarded.
McQueen
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Oldbased
> Than U
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You didn't even mention the biggest one in such a scenario. Communications. You did mention satellites but that doesn't mean communication unless the receivers at Starlink was still working and fueled so I assume satellite is being used as GPS/information/imagry.
We have multiple means of communication and means to arrange more in the event of cell/internet collapse. Wouldn't be instant but it is possible. This alters the battlefield drastically.
Mist
Eeyore Enthusiast
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It's 8 weeks into a civil war. Nothing is working. No one is going to work. Most Americans are dead from having a lot of guns and not a lot of food. Americans are eating each other because the steady supply of goyslop coming in our ports to feed our fat faces has been cut off.
You're missing the crux of the argument. We'd be invaded only AFTER we do China's work for them, aka kill each other off or die off from being fucking useless.
You're missing the crux of the argument. We'd be invaded only AFTER we do China's work for them, aka kill each other off or die off from being fucking useless.
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Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
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Nobody is in physical shape for a civil war. If there was one, it would be food and gas levies. Then. Somebody gives up. The end. Nobody picking up guns to protect whatever. They wouldn't do it when the election was stolen. It's not gonna happen now.
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I remembered I saw a write up of a town that got cut off and what happened to them. It took too much to find it but below is a summary. This is without war.
"I've been in an isolated town that got cut out from lines during winter in 90's for about 3 weeks.
Day 1 - "that's not an excuse to slack off from your job wagie". Day 2 - "Fridges start defrosting. Shopkeepers begrugingly do 50%+ discounts on food that is going to go bad at this rate. Malls\trade galeries BRRRR with portable generators.
Day 3-4- "Great feast" People cook and eat up all the food they had stored in their fridges. Gas stove master race does it at home. Electric stove hoods do campfires and or go to dachas.
Day 5 - "Oh fuck off bitch, fire me if you want, I am not going to work untill power is back online."
Day 6-7 People have burned through a good portion of candles and lamp oil they had. A few homes already burned to the ground due to mistreated candles\lamps by now.
Week 2 - A real fun begins. Hospitals emergency generators are running out of fuel. Only essential workers bother going to work. Criminals are getting bolder and bolder by day. Those who prepped canned food reap the products of their hard work, and 50+ people bread lines become norm. Smog from generators makes air in the city centers hard to breathe.
Week 3 - People start to run out of cash, supplies and actually panic. Rumors are going around that mayor and his cronies are nowhere to be found and helicoptered the fuck away. Hospital generators ran out of fuel. Rich patients were evacuated from clinic via helicopter, others are fucking dead. Burial agencies are working overtime. Any business trading necessities are taken over other by cops or by thugs, and parallel economy is running rampant. People with offroad-proof cars are taking their chances getting the fuck out of a town.
Our electricity supply was restored at wednesday of third week, and this whole ordeal took a while to recover from, but on the other hand it ensured the creation of proper roads and our town's own electrical station."
"I've been in an isolated town that got cut out from lines during winter in 90's for about 3 weeks.
Day 1 - "that's not an excuse to slack off from your job wagie". Day 2 - "Fridges start defrosting. Shopkeepers begrugingly do 50%+ discounts on food that is going to go bad at this rate. Malls\trade galeries BRRRR with portable generators.
Day 3-4- "Great feast" People cook and eat up all the food they had stored in their fridges. Gas stove master race does it at home. Electric stove hoods do campfires and or go to dachas.
Day 5 - "Oh fuck off bitch, fire me if you want, I am not going to work untill power is back online."
Day 6-7 People have burned through a good portion of candles and lamp oil they had. A few homes already burned to the ground due to mistreated candles\lamps by now.
Week 2 - A real fun begins. Hospitals emergency generators are running out of fuel. Only essential workers bother going to work. Criminals are getting bolder and bolder by day. Those who prepped canned food reap the products of their hard work, and 50+ people bread lines become norm. Smog from generators makes air in the city centers hard to breathe.
Week 3 - People start to run out of cash, supplies and actually panic. Rumors are going around that mayor and his cronies are nowhere to be found and helicoptered the fuck away. Hospital generators ran out of fuel. Rich patients were evacuated from clinic via helicopter, others are fucking dead. Burial agencies are working overtime. Any business trading necessities are taken over other by cops or by thugs, and parallel economy is running rampant. People with offroad-proof cars are taking their chances getting the fuck out of a town.
Our electricity supply was restored at wednesday of third week, and this whole ordeal took a while to recover from, but on the other hand it ensured the creation of proper roads and our town's own electrical station."
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