Company Raises It's Minimum Wage to $70,000 and All Hell Breaks Loose

Vaclav

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I dont know, maybe start by finding out why someone is working a minimum wage job for 15 or 20 years?
Locality issues, education issues (either inability or lack of affordability or incorrect for the region), health/physical limitations, requiring flexibility on hours (usually due to family), etc.

These are known factors - and all cost money to address one way or another.
 

zombiewizardhawk

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Oh my bad. Please make minimum wage $37.50 an hour so I can afford more meth and work at KFC and i'll finally be able to squeeze out those 4 kids that I wish I would have had by the time I was 19 and support them. Mostly the meth, tho.
 

Fifey

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Locality issues, education issues (either inability or lack of affordability or incorrect for the region), health/physical limitations, requiring flexibility on hours (usually due to family), etc.

These are known factors - and all cost money to address one way or another.
Or they drink on the job, refuse to learn job tasks that would promote them, show up late and go home early, bitch when it gets busy and they actually have to work.

These are all the things our lowest paid worker does who makes roughly 1 dollar over OR min wage.

Oh and they promised to get their drivers license shortly after being hired and it's been 9 months with no license.
 

Asshat wormie

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Or they drink on the job, refuse to learn job tasks that would promote them, show up late and go home early, bitch when it gets busy and they actually have to work.

These are all the things our lowest paid worker does who makes roughly 1 dollar over OR min wage.

Oh and they promised to get their drivers license shortly after being hired and it's been 9 months with no license.
If you got paid 7 dollars an hour, would you really give two fucks what happened at your job?
 

Vaclav

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Or they drink on the job, refuse to learn job tasks that would promote them, show up late and go home early, bitch when it gets busy and they actually have to work.

These are all the things our lowest paid worker does who makes roughly 1 dollar over OR min wage.

Oh and they promised to get their drivers license shortly after being hired and it's been 9 months with no license.
Being someone that often hired ex-minimum wage/close to people into better paying ($11/hr was a normal start for a kid, $12-13/hr for 30-40 yr olds - at least pre-$7.25 bump [what was that $6.50?] when min wage was around $5.25 when I started with them it was $9-11 instead - basically company philosophy was to pay double minimum wage to people college grad+ and little less to kids and little more to older folks I'd imagine [I just went with what I was told, never discussed the meaning behind it with the powers that be - so just my interpretation]) untrained labor, that's a complete load of shit - either because:
a) As soon as they got paid more they gave up those bad habits (which would defeat the entire - "they should never be paid more because they'll never work harder" argument)
b) Because they were being exploited by businesses because they didn't have the skills to be used in a more meaningful business.

Literally, I can count the number of people that come from minimum wage jobs to work for us and still kept habits like you talk about on a single hand out of a few hundred hires over the years that came from a minimum wage background previously - the same 1-2% ratio also existed in the workers I hired with histories that came from jobs getting paid equal or more previously. Hell, one of our biggest shoplifters I had hired at my last location was a head baker that had earned $42k at his previous job, we were paying $45k and he was still a thief that came to the job drunk a few times. [The only hire bad enough that I ever made that I got scolded for by the company owner in fact - every talk we had over my 15 years was sunshine and roses besides that one]

Bad workers are bad workers - they'll always exist, but they're outliers - it might be more of them fall to the bottom in the inner cities and such, but for my experiences dealing with fancy suburbs (which keep in mind, more than a few did have mass transit straight to downtown nearby - last location had a light rail literally 200-300 ft away that connected straight to the worst parts of Baltimore - plenty of our workers commuted from downtown) - the 1-2% was universal of pay level.

Perhaps they WERE shit workers before I got a hold of them and paid them well - but if that was the case, that just lends more validity to the argument, not less.

[And note, due to our amazing benefits, probably more equivalent to say we were paying them closer to $15-20 really - there's a reason the company is a regular Forbe's Top 10 for places to work...]
 

Khane

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Here's your graph Abe:

FT_15.05.20_minWage_1938_2014.png


And the article that accompanies it:

5 facts about the minimum wage | Pew Research Center

And here's some information from the department of labor:

http://www.dol.gov/minwage/mythbuster.htm

People starting to give anecdotal evidence of workers they don't like and pretending that's representative of the entire population of at or near minimum wage workers? Give me a break.

You guys seem to have a problem with the $15/hr fast food workers will be getting in NY. As far as I know there is no federal plan to go that high. I think most were pushing for $12/hr. Is that still too high for your comfort?
 

Vaclav

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This statistic from your top link is astounding Khane - was shocked to see it so high:
About 20.6 million people (or 30% of all hourly, non-self-employed workers 18 and older) are "near-minimum-wage" workers.

On the other side of the coin - I thought that min-wage adjusted for inflation was substantially lower than what that chart says
 

Fifey

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People starting to give anecdotal evidence of workers they don't like and pretending that's representative of the entire population of at or near minimum wage workers? Give me a break.
I'm only able to speak from experience but my industry deals with a good amount of near min wage hires usually we hire about 1 to 3 dollars above min wage for entry and most competent people, move up within a year to a better role. Its just the career min wage employees that never seem to grasp the concept of giving a shit and I feel like nothing will ever change their attitude. I felt like you are caught up on the number of the wage and not just the fact that it's the lowest bracket which they will always be.
 

Khane

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I'm only able to speak from experience but my industry deals with a good amount of near min wage hires usually we hire about 1 to 3 dollars above min wage for entry and most competent people, move up within a year to a better role. Its just the career min wage employees that never seem to grasp the concept of giving a shit and I feel like nothing will ever change their attitude. I felt like you are caught up on the number of the wage and not just the fact that it's the lowest bracket which they will always be.
This argument is just circular at this point. Of course I'm caught up in the wage, that's the entire point of this minimum wage argument. The wage.

Nobody's opinion in this thread is going to change so it's not worth talking about anymore.
 

Big Phoenix

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I do not think you understand how incentives work.
Ive seen people have absolutely terrible work ethic and not give a shit about anything while being compensated far above minimum wage.

People arent paid minimum wage out of spite or because burger flipping jobs are hated. Theyre paid minimum wage because the jobs that pay that much pretty much all require zero skill, zero experience and have practically zero responsibility.
 

Khane

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Ive seen people have absolutely terrible work ethic and not give a shit about anything while being compensated far above minimum wage.

People arent paid minimum wage out of spite or because burger flipping jobs are hated. Theyre paid minimum wage because the jobs that pay that much pretty much all require zero skill, zero experience and have practically zero responsibility.
Well I just can't help myself.

When it comes to unskilled labor an employer will always be able to find someone willing to do it for cheaper. Minimum wage exists so those employers cannot exercise nefarious business practices to take advantage of a person's desperation for the sake of higher profit margin. Because what happened when they could do that (i.e. before minimum wage) were things like this:

Homestead Strike - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Cad

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Well I just can't help myself.

When it comes to unskilled labor an employer will always be able to find someone willing to do it for cheaper. Minimum wage exists so those employers cannot exercise nefarious business practices to take advantage of a person's desperation for the sake of higher profit margin. Because what happened when they could do that (i.e. before minimum wage) were things like this:

Homestead Strike - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
We get it, things were different 120 years ago bro.
 

Khane

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We get it, things were different 120 years ago bro.
Do you think companies wouldn't do it again nowadays? They still do. Take a look at Wal-Mart.

EDIT: In the sense of taking advantage of their employees as much as they legally can. Not hiring a militia.
 

Cad

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Do you think companies wouldn't do it again nowadays? They still do. Take a look at Wal-Mart.

EDIT: In the sense of taking advantage of their employees as much as they legally can. Not hiring a militia.
No I think they will. But you need to put your militia strike breakers into perspective with today's reality, the companies don't have that kind of power over workers anymore. Walmart almost universally employs the worst people in America because all they care about is the lowest prices, which is all the people who shop there care about. Walmart is a huge employer but a bad example because they hire the people nobody else will.

I've decided I don't think it will affect anything if we raise the minimum wage. Might make walmart not as cheap.
 

Palum

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This argument is just circular at this point. Of course I'm caught up in the wage, that's the entire point of this minimum wage argument. The wage.

Nobody's opinion in this thread is going to change so it's not worth talking about anymore.
It's circular because you and Valnoomba will not admit that for any wage X there are people who are not employable because they are simply not worth that wage. Seems quite obvious the higher you raise X, the more people fall into that category.

It's a barrier to entry into the workforce. It is not a very high barrier at 7.25, but it starts getting up there as you go higher.

I don't really care personally, turning Wal-Mart into Target price wise isn't going to affect me. Raising the minimum wage to $15 would mean I'd have to resist hiring as many fresh high school grads or people with no recent work history or career changers because entry level would be farther up the pay scale.

It would also vastly increase the number of people making the minimum wage. I think it's absurd that anyone can think it's not going to have a negative affect on job numbers. The macroeconomics are irrelevant because the economy will adjust with inflation to make the increase meaningless long term and SBOs are going to cut one or two jobs to recoup the loss. Large companies who employ in that pay range will shift more burden to existing employees and reduce hiring volume at least. Do you know how I know this? Look at what happened in the recession. Businesses didn't take a cut in profits willingly, they increased worker responsibilities, froze QOL/COLA type benefits and wage increases, etc. As a nation we also paid out a ton of extended benefits and most of the job gain coming back was and still is underemployment.