Crowfall

Srathor

Srathor

Blackwing Lair Raider
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Yep kinda brilliant really. The wolves are all Muhhahahaha, the puppies are like F this new campaign where the PRX, is not there. The puppies are the new wolves to the sheep there and PRX is like we have all this loot we can't take it with us, we have to wait for winter. (ALT Time!) Now what server did Ewie go to? <Stomp Stomp Stomp>
 
Byr

Byr

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Bruman_sl said:
Hence that little feature of this game, ya know, the campaigns. You might have heard about it.
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I dont expect campaigns will be enough. Does someone really say, 'hey, we got beat. lets go put all the work in again on a new server where we'll probably lose again'? Even if they go to a new server once or twice, thats not going to be a long cycle.

I missed asking questions for the interview but I wonder why they decided to design a game around a failed idea of Shadowbane.
 
Ukerric

Ukerric

Bearded Ape
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Eidal_sl said:
I doubt this is even on their radar. But yea, also have no idea what the percentage of french MMO players are compared to English-speaking countries.
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Simply look at stuff like GW2 or WoW. The ratio of french servers to overall servers tells you what to expect.

GW2: 51 servers EU/NA, 5 french servers, ~9%
WoW: 266 EU+ 247 NA, 35 french servers, ~7%

So, you can expect to lose about 7 to 8% of your players if you don't do french. It's not much, but not negligible.
 
Ukerric

Ukerric

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Tuco_sl said:
I haven't heard a single thing about how winners in the dregs is decided.
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Like the rest, they probably have multiple victory conditions, and thus some campaign may differ.

Obvious ones: The top X% of K/D ratios win. Permadeath + last X% of the total players win (the dead simply recover the 20% of what they had in Vault, if any, before they died). Score points by being around interest points, top X% of points holders win (not optimal, it rewards too much those who play longer hours). You can probably imagine a couple other rules, and the most popular ones will remain. Bonus salty campaign: The top X% stone stored win (do I export Iron and thus may lose 60% of it because I didn't store enough Stone...?)
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Ukerric_sl said:
Simply look at stuff like GW2 or WoW. The ratio of french servers to overall servers tells you what to expect.

GW2: 51 servers EU/NA, 5 french servers, ~9%
WoW: 266 EU+ 247 NA, 35 french servers, ~7%

So, you can expect to lose about 7 to 8% of your players if you don't do french. It's not much, but not negligible.
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You don't necessarily lose all of it though, many french players play french servers because they exist but would still play if they didn't. Though you'd still look at probably around 5% or so, and another 5% for geman players, which is fairly substantial.

Anyway I don't think they're going for casual playerbase and shit anyway, and the hardcore players won't let a thing like that stop them from buying the game, so in terms of their projected population, it would probably a lot lower than those 10%, I guess.
 
A

Arcaus_sl

shitlord
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Ukerric_sl said:
So the real question is: will there be enough french players that you cannot afford to lose 90% of them. And I have absolutely no idea.

(the same question applies to our german friends. There's a good reason every western MMO that has an EU launch does so with english, french and german)
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Let's be honest here, in EQ the worst piece of shit players were the Frenchies. They were extremely rude, did underhanded shit and fucked up Torv as a server.

In WAR, the Frenchies were the worst PVPers who couldn't even push to the City while all the Americans slept.

I'm okay with there never being a French Translation.
 
A

Arcaus_sl

shitlord
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Byr_sl said:
I missed asking questions for the interview but I wonder why they decided to design a game around a failed idea of Shadowbane.
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They have said it several times. The took what didn't work about Shadowbane in their eyes (campaigns never ending) and got rid of it. I think they are correct but I could be wrong.
 
Barab

Barab

Silver Knight of the Realm
446
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I wouldn't be surprised if it's more wolves on wolves than wolves on sheep in cf. Hopefully the allegiance system and friendly fire will aid smaller guilds. I know we're in the age of 500 member+ mega guilds with hundreds online at any moment but some of us prefer our small to medium size outfits perferng to operate in small groups over mass numbers on the open field.
 
A

Arcaus_sl

shitlord
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Barab_sl said:
some of us prefer our small to medium size outfits perferng to operate in small groups over mass numbers on the open field.
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So you do that and realize your fun is more important then becoming "server champion of all time". They are making it pretty clear that winning will require numbers but that doesn't mean you can't win your own mini-game of small skirmishes.
 
Vandyn

Vandyn

Blackwing Lair Raider
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If this comes out with all the bells and whistles they say it will, it's going to be a case study on how many hardcore PvP players are really 'hardcore'. For some reason I have a hunch that Dregs is not where most are going to go.
 
A

Arcaus_sl

shitlord
1,290
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Vandyn_sl said:
If this comes out with all the bells and whistles they say it will, it's going to be a case study on how many hardcore PvP players are really 'hardcore'. For some reason I have a hunch that Dregs is not where most are going to go.
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I will never play a Dregs campaign unless I am forced to. I have a lot more fun in group play then I do solo play(and while my twitch skills are good enough I am not some uber amazing world pwner). My preferred rules set out of those presented so far are 3 faction.
 
A

Arcaus_sl

shitlord
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Draegan_sl said:
Dregs is not solo play. It's FFA so you can kill anyone, but there are still groups and guilds.
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Where the winner is one dude, not a guild from what I understand. I'd rather spend time in group play on a group win server then in group play vaulting some other dude to supreme arch commander of the uniworld.
 
Vitality

Vitality

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Arcaus_sl said:
Where the winner is one dude, not a guild from what I understand. I'd rather spend time in group play on a group win server then in group play vaulting some other dude to supreme arch commander of the uniworld.
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Yeah we don't have any information on dregs win conditions at all so this is just speculative.

The only win condition released so far is the Bloodstone ruleset. Who knows if that gets adapted to FFA or not. Who knows if they make it so a guild can all get VP from the stones in Dregs.

Who knows if they're going to make someone have to claim a crown in the center of the map, and those that serve him gain vp slowly. Protect the crown style.
 
Rogosh

Rogosh

Lord Nagafen Raider
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So basically you are going to die and lose everything you are trying to put into the embargo anyways? Embargo seems kind of silly and will just be a big zerg with the bigger zerg winning the right to export.
 
Vitality

Vitality

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Edit: Homeboys talking a little more about campaign rewards and meaning:

Random Noob: We want Campaigns to feel like a Ranked game. Or a Tournament. Not a practice game. That's the best analogy that can be made, I suppose.

As I said: yes, we're going to provide rewards from Campaigns to do that.

Todd
ACE

by JToddColeman 18 hours ago in forum General Discussion in The Issue Is Not Campaign Permanence: We Need An Iron Throne
We are going to have rewards for Campaign participation. We just can't let those rewards grant significant in-game benefits that could be carried over into the next Campaign (and the next, and the next...) Otherwise, we've just moved the Uncle Bob problem -- the 'slippery slope' positive/negative feedback reinforcement loop -- out of the Campaign and into the EK, which would actually be worse. We'd be trading server stagnation in for game-service stagnation. UGH.

Seasons could work; we'd just have to limit the rewards in time and effect. It's a bit tricky, given that all Campaigns aren't created equally or sync'd to a common cadence (start and stop times will rarely match up)... but it's doable.

Todd
ACE

----------------

Possible bard hype:

by TullyAckland 12 hours ago in forum General Discussion in Do You Want A Bard Promotion Class ?
BARDS ARE COOL. They are my favorite!

Nothing to confirm right now.. but if you like bards make yourselves known.


#TeamBard
 
Tuco

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
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People worried about large guilds dominating Dregs should be worried. The more potential for loss you add to the game the more risk averse people will be. The more risk averse they are the more willing they will be to team up. The more they team up the less room there is very small-group pvp. And while there will be zergs of scrubs roaming around and flooding the areas, groups like PRX will always be able to get a lot of people together, get them coordinated on a large scale, and sustain a war machine that smaller groups simply can't compete against. People here who have played within PRX know exactly what I'm talking about and how frightening it is to see how coordinated a group of 100+ people can get.

What's the solution?

1. Make it so that accruing wealth can't be done without risk. If you can just farm mobs in the middle of no where, loot 'coins' that can be transported easily and don't drop when you die, people will do that safely and obscurely. You have to claim an area, invest some resource in operating it, and then it prodcues resources that need to be transported slowly to another area to be useful.
2. Make it so that a resource has a limited amount of wealth that can be generated. If you bring 50 dudes to mine something that can be handled by 5, everyone is wasting their time and people will start to feel like they could do better with 5 people on the next mine over, even if it means they can be attacked.
3. Be very careful about making it so that doing well, accruing a lot of wealth and losing the campaign means you've wasted your time. Let the big guilds worry about who wins a given campaign, each player should be concerned with winning enough battles within their own sphere that they end the campaign as a winner. The star players on the losing side shouldn't earn less than the scrubs on the winning side.
 
Vitality

Vitality

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I have a feeling they're going to lose quite a few people with the export/import bullshit they're tiptoeing around.

Not only is getting said items to an exportable bank already loaded with risk but they're going to have it be subject to another dice roll.

In my head this game shouldn't be about the items and instead it should be about your character.

I'd be willing to go as far as saying export rules should be non item based and should be character skill point based. Especially since items are lootable and all that shit.

How much do they expect me to care about carrying over the Flaming sword of ass-beatery when it's going to break anyways.

I'd rather have Dregs have an increased skillgain rate (and make skill points and what not more heavily weighted) or possibly be rewarded by unlocking a dregs exclusive promotional tier. Etc. Fuck items.
 
Tuco

Tuco

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Of all the design decisions they have to make a choice on I think this is one of them that can be changed the most easily and one I'm not too worried about. It's a central component to their different rulesets and it's a 100% new feature to MMOs. I think they'll have to try a bunch of different thigns in alpha and the ideal rulesets are probably something nobody is currently predicted.

I think a lot of people are underestimating how quickly people will quit a campaign once a clear winner emerges. And that clear winner doesn't even need a major victory, just a show of force after a string of victories. I'm not even talking about a team winning a touchdown, I'm talking about them putting together 3 decent plays and getting two first downs. These games have always been and will always be about morale and most people don't take much to break their morale. If you compound that with the idea that they aren't exporting shit you really motivate them to do whatever they can to get off the campaign, including rolling an alt, taking a break or finding a new game.
 
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