Crowfall
- Thread starter Kharza-kzad_sl
- Start date
Balancing reward or at least designing for it is the soul purpose of game design. You need to give a reason for winning. No one just wants to win for winning sake for the most part. Even you do it for bragging rights. You have a giant PVP community behind you that you get to hang your hat on. The average person doesn't have that; winning for them is a side note. They need a tangible reward or goal to go towards. Even if it's points in a ladder/ranking system and no specific in-game reward, it's got to be something.
If everyone played on a team or a big guild, it's easy to say what you did, but you have to consider the broader view when designing a game like this even if it's niche. There are plenty of people out there that PVP alone or in small groups that you have to give them a bone from time to time.
calhoonjugganaut
Trakanon Raider
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- 1,415
Looks kind of interesting. I really don't feel like delving into 140 pages but curious where they are with this game now. Will it be released soon or still a ways away?
Eidal
Molten Core Raider
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- 213
Given: non-infinite campaigns and a vested interest in clean-slate beginnings, it doesn't matter how much extra tiers of loot devs throw into a campaign. It's all relative; if PRX is playing in a Campaign with T10 gear its just the same as T8 gear given that everyone in the campaign begins with the same access. The only way game-based incentives work is if they carry on in some degree to the future Campaigns, and now we lose the clean-slate concept. No one, PRX included, really wants a situation in which they triumphed in a T10 campaign and now they can move onto the next T5 campaign while retaining their (for the campaign) OP as fuck gear. Most people wouldn't challenge them, and either PRX loses with the gear imbalance in their favor or they win... either a shameful loss or a hollow victory.
Maybe I'm not wholly grasping this "the best loot is in [these campaigns], but you can't bring it into the next one" concept.
Maybe I'm not wholly grasping this "the best loot is in [these campaigns], but you can't bring it into the next one" concept.
uniqueuser
Vyemm Raider
- 1,738
- 4,892
When you need to hit a fucking stretch goal just to get simple things that qualify as expected content in a medieval rpg, that oft-cited advantage of crowdfunding "freeing us from the fetters of a publisher" begins to sound pretty useless.$1.3 million goal hit. Mount up!
Vitality
ＨＵＳＴＬＥ
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- 30
Eidal. If you'vr ever played games with 3 month ladder resets or server wipes you'll see that gear is just a means to climb on the ladder and/or do well during said League.
In these games the servers that have gear carryover are typically avoided by the competitive crowd and are deemed casual servers. See path of exile standard league for reference. It's a good players garbage collecting sever.
Major success from games that regularly ladder/server reset are almost entirely driven by leader boards or ladder rankings. Having that urge to get your name on the top 100. Like league with its ranked stuff.
Attachment to gear is one of the first things you learn how to get rid of when you start competing in this envirnoment.
A major problem that plagues this game type is the length and delay of ladders and new ladders. Often times due to content repetition a league or campaign will only stay interesting for the first month at which point a majority of the player base just stops caring about the ladder and progression.
In crowfalls case they have a leg up by focusing on Pvp.
In these games the servers that have gear carryover are typically avoided by the competitive crowd and are deemed casual servers. See path of exile standard league for reference. It's a good players garbage collecting sever.
Major success from games that regularly ladder/server reset are almost entirely driven by leader boards or ladder rankings. Having that urge to get your name on the top 100. Like league with its ranked stuff.
Attachment to gear is one of the first things you learn how to get rid of when you start competing in this envirnoment.
A major problem that plagues this game type is the length and delay of ladders and new ladders. Often times due to content repetition a league or campaign will only stay interesting for the first month at which point a majority of the player base just stops caring about the ladder and progression.
In crowfalls case they have a leg up by focusing on Pvp.
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The stretch goals are bs, I think everyone can agree on that. The extra money they will receive isn't going to make the goals any more of a reality than they already were. Those goals would have been in the game after 2 years of development anyway. I can overlook this bad attempt at pinching more money out of the player base if they have an amazing game (which I believe they will).
*edit* the VR is the only stretch goal that I think they would need the extra funding for. That being said, I think VR this early on is just stupid and a waste of time, especially for a game like this.
*edit* the VR is the only stretch goal that I think they would need the extra funding for. That being said, I think VR this early on is just stupid and a waste of time, especially for a game like this.
Ukerric
Bearded Ape
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- 9,643
Because you're still thinking of "there's one rule everyone plays by". There's not. You will have campaigns in which you can't bring your gear (or maybe only a weapon, no armor), and campaign in which you can. The catch is that this "best" gear you bring in from the EK is going to be lost. Unless you vault it, and hope you win and it's not lost on its way back to the EK, you're going to leave it on your corpse at the end of the world.
So you have to make a decision: do I risk the gear on that campaign, keep it for a more "important" campaign, or just use very basic crafted gear. That's what the best loot is: it offers you an opportunity to start in a stronger position, but you'll lose it once you use it.
Harfle
Lord Nagafen Raider
- 1,055
- 69
didnt the devs already state the stretch goals were going to happen regardless, and haven't they stated the goals will contiune after kickstarter? or did I just read that somewhere and make it up in my head?
Teekey
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 3,644
- -6,335
The Kickstarter is to fund the "Core Module" of the game. Mounts, Artifacts & Relics, etc are all planned features, it's just a question of whether they make it into release (Core Module) or not.
That's my understanding of it.
popsicledeath
Potato del Grande
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- 11,753
Am I missing something? This game seems to be shaping up to be a lobby-based queued/instanced match-style pointless pvp sparring match like so many other pvp games. It doesn't seem like they've created a system for meaningful pvp, but simply cut out the persistent PvE world that other failed PvP efforts have at least had. It's like their pitch is: It's like Rift, but without the PvE world. It's like GW2, ah, but without the PvE world. It's like a dozen other games, but without the PvE world that you'd at least think to yourselfman this would be cool if there were actual world pvp instead of instanced matches!
Not the strongest selling point for me.
I wish one of these companies would just create a world, populate it with mobs and loot, turn on pvp, and let players figure it out. Stop being cute and over-designing pvp by trying to create a PvP system and PvP rewards and PvP rankings and all that shit. Players will sort all that out when they're trying to progress in a game and either have to learn to defend themselves or die.
Then again, I also have never needed trophies and percentages in console games to know I beat a game or had fun trying. So I guess I've got a pretty small epeen wanting an open world ffa game where PvP isn't some contrived sparring match.
Serious questions ,because I'm getting a ton of 'dude finally a real pvp game' hype that I just don't see: How is this going to be more 'fun' than the other games when you're still just sparring for no real purpose? Do people still not understand it's not PvP mechanics or systems that make PvP fun, but having real consequences worth fighting over?
I guess I just don't see resources to fix up your Disney Palace as enough motivation for people to give a shit about PvP after the initial luster wears thin.
I'm trying to believe, though.
Not the strongest selling point for me.
I wish one of these companies would just create a world, populate it with mobs and loot, turn on pvp, and let players figure it out. Stop being cute and over-designing pvp by trying to create a PvP system and PvP rewards and PvP rankings and all that shit. Players will sort all that out when they're trying to progress in a game and either have to learn to defend themselves or die.
Then again, I also have never needed trophies and percentages in console games to know I beat a game or had fun trying. So I guess I've got a pretty small epeen wanting an open world ffa game where PvP isn't some contrived sparring match.
Serious questions ,because I'm getting a ton of 'dude finally a real pvp game' hype that I just don't see: How is this going to be more 'fun' than the other games when you're still just sparring for no real purpose? Do people still not understand it's not PvP mechanics or systems that make PvP fun, but having real consequences worth fighting over?
I guess I just don't see resources to fix up your Disney Palace as enough motivation for people to give a shit about PvP after the initial luster wears thin.
I'm trying to believe, though.
Muligan
Trakanon Raider
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- 895
I feel you but I keep hoping this is going to be different enough where the other gameplay elements compliment PvP and make for an interesting game. I'm trying to think out of my own box and hope they have something. I've been rethinking the level of my contribution but at the same time think that regardless of what I give now that I would probably end up sinking the same amount of money later. So I might as well support it on the front end and hope that in some way that the community can help steer the ship.
Who knows... There's more of what I like thus far than not to like at this time.