I think any PvP game nowadays trying to institute a blanket equipment loss on death (elod) is a recipe for disaster and sheer folly. Modern PvP players don't really want that as a whole and you only see that in niche games where the audience is dedicated towards that kind of thing. Players today don't even want equipmentrepair costson death let alone losing their stuff.As Draeg said, the biggest advantage to Equip loss on death, is rewarding strategic thinking. Guilds with armories where they have caches of swords and armor? Will have huge advantages in terms of reequipping and getting men back out onto the field, or building up a counter attack. That kind of reward for completed resources? Is that makes crafters an essential part of an actual "in campaign" war effort, and not just some alts you grind up to slap together a new piece of equipment when you upgrade.
That is the largest difference, I think, when you lose equipment vs when you don't. Crafters become required to put time in tomaintain combat effectiveness,notjust increase it. In a way crafters take on a more direct "support" role, than they would otherwise . Tying resource loss to direct combat losses? Creates a different feel for the game. It can be a good thing if equipment is stream lined. It doesn't really work in games where equipment is extremely difficult to get.
One of the quickest growing genres literally relies on this. So I don't think I'd agree with this. The key is setting up your loot and equipment system to facilitate it. Item loss in a game like Archeage, would suck ass. In a game designed conducive to it? It could be as exciting as any of the plethora of survival games out there now. But given the success of these genres, I think it's very arguable that players are looking for it.I think any PvP game nowadays trying to institute a blanket equipment loss on death (elod) is a recipe for disaster and sheer folly. Modern PvP players don't really want that as a whole and you only see that in niche games where the audience is dedicated towards that kind of thing. Players today don't even want equipmentrepair costson death let alone losing their stuff.
Well, yeah. Weapons should be the deciding factor only when skill is even. That's the golden rule--it's very hard to accomplish but it should be the case. The difference between a +1 (Normal) weapon and a +5 (GM crafted with dorf steel) should be a useful advantage in an even match, but useless when outclassed or outnumbered. Someone should be pretty effective with a plain +1 sword.The only way imo that ELOD works as a system is in a system where it's not the weapon itself that gives the great advantage vs another one; it's the player and the player's skills that determine power. A weapon a player finds at Level 1 should be no different than a weapon a player finds at Level 50 because if they die and lose it, then can just equip another one from 1-50 without losing battle effectiveness. In this way, a player won't be hesitant to engage in battles where they might die and lose their gear simply because they know they can run back to their guild's armory, pick out a basic (albeit plain looking) sword from stock that crafters made in bulk through writs, some helm/armor/greaves and run right back out into the fight to help their guild. The ones with the glowy effects possibly might be more leery, but that's the reality of battles; the ones with the best armor/horses/etc were always the targets because their gear identified them as leaders of skilled combat and/or accomplishment and they should relish the challenge Game of Thrones style.
This was one of my favorite parts of being a raid leader I guess it's just a difference in preferences. I'm the nerd that likes to build a deck more than play it. So, I used to love organizing equipment and building goals to make us more effective. In UO, this always appealed to me, keeping our chests full of GM Halbers and Katanas and Bows--and different GM armors. So if we wiped we could equip quickly and get back out there. But I know it's not for everyone.Maybe I don't want equip loss on death because as a leader of a very organized guild I don't want to deal with that bullshit. I don't want to have people delegated to organize armories. I don't want to deal with people being lazy and unprepared and showing up naked and useless. I don't want to have to deal with getting wiped then spending 15-30 minutes waiting for people to sort through all their gear. I don't want to have to win a big victory and wait while being sort through the remains trying to pick up stuff and equip themselves. I just want people to equip themselves, get their characters finished and then we can fight.
I see the benefit and depth added of equip loot on a small scale, but my laziness as a raid leader comes out when I think about how it extends to a larger scale.
Maybe the added logistical burden could serve as a check on the power a large force like PRX usually wields in MMOs. I agree it may lead to unfun... but guilds like PRX crush the fun out of smaller guilds who do not want to roll 100+ deep. I dunno. I think the last ten years of MMOs have really struggled to deal with the "bring more people" problem -- it's been almost unilaterally the best way to win. I mean, if you can't trust your company-grade officers to have their members to show up in the right equipment, maybe they have no place on a battlefield!Maybe I don't want equip loss on death because as a leader of a very organized guild I don't want to deal with that bullshit. I don't want to have people delegated to organize armories. I don't want to deal with people being lazy and unprepared and showing up naked and useless. I don't want to have to deal with getting wiped then spending 15-30 minutes waiting for people to sort through all their gear. I don't want to have to win a big victory and wait while being sort through the remains trying to pick up stuff and equip themselves. I just want people to equip themselves, get their characters finished and then we can fight.
I see the benefit and depth added of equip loot on a small scale, but my laziness as a raid leader comes out when I think about how it extends to a larger scale.
I know people like this kind of PvP but I never really did. I don't think there should ever be "+1" or "+5" in any form of PvP gear and always thought it was stupid. Why?Well, yeah. Weapons should be the deciding factor only when skill is even. That's the golden rule--it's very hard to accomplish but it should be the case. The difference between a +1 (Normal) weapon and a +5 (GM crafted with dorf steel) should be a useful advantage in an even match, but useless when outclassed or outnumbered. Someone should be pretty effective with a plain +1 sword.
That's actually a pretty big key, I think, to making systems like this work. Understanding that risk of loss will ALWAYS be there and thus players can't feel too attached to their equipment and equipment needs to be easily replaceable. And so the concept of good equipment isn't supposed to be like WoW, where a player makes or breaks his character with the equipment. Rather, equipment should be fine tuning. It's about balancing the risk in a game like this, with the reward. Since the risk is so high, the sting of loss has to be low, it needs to mostly be about small advantages and the time it takes to re-equip and organize.
That's comparable to the power scale of magical items in pre-publish 16 UO, a game in which the scenario you've described never happened, for several reasons: no gear advantage was insurmountable; items decayed or were otherwise consumed; and last but not least, all items dropped on death.I know people like this kind of PvP but I never really did. I don't think there should ever be "+1" or "+5" in any form of PvP gear and always thought it was stupid.
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Which is probably why something like that has to actually happen on a larger scale because... Einstein: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."That's comparable to the power scale of magical items in pre-publish 16 UO, a game in which the scenario you've described never happened, for several reasons: no gear advantage was insurmountable; items decayed or were otherwise consumed; and last but not least, all items dropped on death.
Also, you're overestimating the appeal of cosmetic shit to pvpers. They prefer things that give a functional advantage. If those things aren't available, they tend to get bored quickly.
It took playersyearsto come around to that kind of play which had no avatars, no recognizable PvP they had been used to and the need to be versed in Microsoft Excel. So a spreadsheet/non-typical PvP game that wasn't even a 'smash hit' when it launched is what everyone should remember?People who play elves and dwarves games always forget about EVE.
I have no idea what you're trying to say. I don't think english is your first language.
I do get anyone will playanywell-made game. By any chance, do you happen to know if water is wet, too?PVP players buy skins for sure, but at the end of the day if the game is good they're going to play it anyway. I think that's his point. I don't think he ever meant to say they never bought skins.
Insert classic strong looking awesome barbarian with sooper-doper weapons vs weak basic Level 1 looking barbarian in goatskins with basic sword.Those pictures do not work.