Crowfall

Draegan_sl said:

That's just your mental problem that you can't get over. Honestly, SWTOR and Rift are the same game before or after the switch, they just opened up their doors to more players. Like it or not, people are more apt to try a game out for free than drop a box price + sub top check it out. It get's the to sub or spend whatever cash they feel necessary and have fun. Believe it or not a box price is a hurdle for trying a game out and honestly has no bearing on how the game really is.

None of those games, SWTOR or Rift have any shitty cash shop items that would turn anyone off. If you don't like the game solely based on it's business model and not because the game is fun or not is just plain stupid.

I think your problem is in the thinking "oh this game went from sub to free to play so it has to be shitty" automatically without actually looking at the game. You need to get over it.

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Let's just agree to disagree. I don't think the discussion is worth berating each other and claiming "mental problems" or calling anyone "stupid". I played Rift and SWTOR, maxed out multiple characters and was active on both ends of the their model. My point was merely this, i'm apprehensive to play games that are FTP. LoL does not count as it is a different game entirely and began with this model. Is it something I need to get over? Possibly... I don't like it because of past experiences but my primary is concern is a valid business concern and is strictly my preference and opinion same as yours.

Maybe I didn't mention this point... I was probably being a little more jokingly in the my original post than I should with the Tommy Boy comment. FTP does not doom any game to come but still leads my mind down a cautious path at least in the MMO genre. I'm waiting to be proven wrong and would gladly accept it. In regards to existing games, It doesn't change the game per say but to me is a red flag or indicator something is not keeping people's attention. That's all i'm saying.

You have your point, I respect that, I see some validity in it but I still prefer a game that where its primary source of financial support is a subscription model. As a software developer in my previous life, I would prefer my motivation be to ensure people will pay for the game and not the purchase of accessories. My hope would be that a game is good enough to where I want cash shop items (as EQII was for me at one time) but at this point, FTP has been used to dig MMO's out of a hole. It doesn't make the game better or worse but again is an indicator to me a change had to be made to get people back on the game.

Anyway... i'll drop the discussion as it really doesn't matter to me in terms of Crowfall and any future development. Push comes to shove, i'll play a good game but admittedly will be cautious with a game that relies on microtransactions.

The only way Crowfall is going to fuck the couch on the free to play topic is if they go the korean route.

If they go the Path of Exile (Bank(stash) space + Spell skins) or Planetside 2 (Modified Weapon stats and handling - Vehicle/Armor skins and effects) they'll be just fine.

Those of you having a strong stance on f2p are confusing a f2p model with a P2W or power purchase model.

Skins yes, that's fine. Bag space? There's a special place in hell for the cunts that thought that up.

Sabbat_sl said:

Skins yes, that's fine. Bag space? There's a special place in hell for the cunts that thought that up.

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Eh it's more stash(bank) space in Path of exile. Bag space selling isn't in that game. My mistake I'll fix it.

Tuco_sl said:

F2p models are like Jedi with fear in their hearts. It only takes the wrong bean counter to get enough control of the cash shop to maximize near term gains by going full blown sith p2w.

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This is a fair conceptualization of the subject.

Vitality_sl said:

This is a fair conceptualization of the subject.

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It's not just fair, it's inevitable. It's also the reason the cash shop idea is flawed at its root. The conflict of interest it creates is unavoidable and terminal to the integrity of the game.

I wouldn't say it's inevitable. There are plenty of good examples of free to play games with out terrible cash shops. GW2, LOL, DOTA2, SWTOR unless you want to count the stupid UI shit. Game is still playable though. Rift, I think, is still a good one but I haven't looked into it in a long time.

You have to choose the Dark Side, it doesn't choose you.

@Tuco well luckily ArcheAge has both!

Draegan_sl said:

I wouldn't say it's inevitable. There are plenty of good examples of free to play games with out terrible cash shops. GW2, LOL, DOTA2, SWTOR unless you want to count the stupid UI shit. Game is still playable though. Rift, I think, is still a good one but I haven't looked into it in a long time.

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*edit*- What I meant is that the conflict is inevitable. I wasn't clear, my fault.

The conflict of interest is that the people who run the game have to constantly fight a battle between limiting cash shop items to "aesthetic" items and making less money, or selling "gameplay impacting" items and making significantly more money.

By expecting game devs to limit the items in their cash shops you are essentially asking them to intentionally and *severely* limit their profit. It's like saying, "Well, I could give you $1,000 or I could give you $10,000- which would you prefer?"

I'm not claiming I've played every cash shop game out there. Maybe there are some games where it works perfectly fine and everyone is happy. All I am saying is that in my experience (quality) mmos are microcosmic worlds with sensitive economies where the integrity of the game gets ruined pretty quickly when the devs start (essentially) printing game money in exchange for real money.

What's your guys' take on games with cash shops that let you buy items with ingame currency at a slower initial rate than paying cash up front?

How about the plex and mtx system in EvE where it's player tradable?

Crowfall is accepting questions in their "Ask the Team" post on their forums. If you guys want some answers, maybe you'll get some...

http://community.crowfall.com/index....-ask-the-team/

About to be locked into work shit for the next few hours and don't have time to make an account and ask- someone please ask about cash shops for the love of god. I doubt they will go into payment details this early, but if they do I can actually scratch off this game or put it at the top of my hype list.

Tuco_sl said:

It's not like anything they say about it matters right now unless they come out with some statement that would be super embarrassing if they changed their mind later.

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You're probably right, atleast they're out there talking about the game though, even if it is just noise.

Georgeson and the goons over at EQN aren't even doing that at all..

You're not a hype guy, some of us are, I was hyped on your current game in it's relative infancy myself.

**Edit: Unfortunately this is what the genre has become, it's a space shared by hype guys like me and heavily commited players like yourself. There's really not room for a middle ground on the two stances (in any game right now) hype fades quick from games that mess up early, commitment fades on extended mess-ups.

Maybe we're all just waiting to see how these guys mess this up in the short and long.

I get where you're coming from Tuco, I had my fair share of early hype crowds and it hasn't worked out in my favor the majority of the time, I think you've got the right idea for long-term sustainability of larger communities.

Not to shill here or anything but I think this game is speaking of things that can possibly middleground the early hype and long term gamers together with the multi-world rollover larger goal pvp stuff.

Who knows how much of that is smoke up our asses though.