Depression

Archangel_sl said:

I (hope/think) I understand the light-hearted spirit in which this was intended, but still....*facepalm*

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Yeak ok, if you don't know what it feels like to be chronically depressed (which most people thankfully don't) I can see why that statement may sound idiotic. But depression is like living in quicksand. Every little fucking everyday thing can exhaust you, just by considering doing it. I know from personal experience that you can be depressed for years and nothing seems to help, and if you suddenly find yourself in a fight or flight situation (even if just perceived that way) and your adrenalin is pumping, your depression is gone. Just like that, in the blink of an eye. Happened to me.

The deeper parts of our brain doesn't know and doesn't care what the fuck depression is, it just gets shit done. Which is exactly what a depressed person doesn't. Yeah sure, the depression came back, but when the action was going on I thought holy shit, I'm alive! This is awesome! One of the key signatures of depression is hopelessness. Knowing that your depression can literally vanish in an instant is knowledge I wish I could pass on to every depressed person in the world. Which, interestingly, is primarily the western world. Fuck living in a rich and safe country, as ungrateful as that may sound And its not like I could just move to a poor country and be happy, it would be like dumping a zoo animal in the middle of Africa. It also seem like a very illogical thing to do. I have become a safety junkie.

I'm constructed as a hunter-gatherer, it went downhill when people started farming (in MMO's, obviously).

That's solid advice, Tubro. I'd suggest a pottery class as well.

Tuco_sl said:

I also recommend cooking if you're depressed.

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I was going to post about how that isn't cooking, but then I saw the JAR OF "CHEESE". What the fuck is that nasty stuff? We have a tiny amount of processed cheese slices for poor people and mcdonalds, but 95% of cheese in England is real unprocessed cheese.

Limited my portions of food, drastically cut sugars and sodium. I talked to my head dr about people not wanting to be on meds, and he told me that you can treat yourself with vitamins, diet and exercise and there is scientific proof that it does help treat the symptoms. However, I did this a few years ago before i was diagnosed, and when I was fit, I had really bad rage issues. I'm talking about half the doors in the house having mirrors on both sides now. I, personally, needed the recovery system. Others may not. But like I said, I tried on my own.

Gonna try fitness again, actually. Tomorrow I'm gonna sign up at a gym and get back on the wagon. I was 140 before meds, at my worst on them I was 200, now, after a week of diet, I'm 190.

Ehhh there we go

Tarrant_sl said:

Talking to someone hasn't been helping by the way, they want to put me on medications and I'm not okay with that so I guess I'll keep trying this and I'm going to explore trying some new hobbies.

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Serious question, why are you opposed to medication? A lot of people have misconceptions regarding them.

Is it the side effects? Different medications react to people differently. If one is not working, you tell your doctor about the side effects and see if you can try something else. For me Zoloft was more effective but the side effects were kicking my ass. I switched to Effexor which worked and didn't have the side effects to go with them.

Dependency? You won't get addicted to antidepressants. They're not addictive. The whole idea in taking them is to go on them for a period of time (say 6 months to a year) and then get off them.

"They don't work for me"? One of the biggest misconceptions about antidepressants are they work like Tylenol. I.E. You're feeling sad so you pop a couple Zoloft and you're happy all of a sudden. They don't work like that. In fact you probably won't even notice the effects for a solid two or three weeks (particularly because they start you at extremely low doses so your body can adapt to them).

"I just don't like medication"? That's a fine answer and if that's what it comes down to, it's your own personal choice. However, medication does work if used properly and given a chance so don't discount it offhand.

Now with all of that said, medication on its own will help but it's not going to be a 100% fix. If talking to your therapist isn't working, again ask yourself why. If it's because you don't like opening up to other people (I'm the same way), it's something you need to work through for yourself. If you don't feel a good connection with your therapist, find another one. Finding the right therapist is incredibly important. There's a world of difference between a good therapist and a bad one. Originally I was seeing a Masters level therapist and I couldn't relate to her at all. I found a Psychologist and she was much more effective.

W4RH34D_sl said:

Limited my portions of food, drastically cut sugars and sodium. I talked to my head dr about people not wanting to be on meds, and he told me that you can treat yourself with vitamins, diet and exercise and there is scientific proof that it does help treat the symptoms. However, I did this a few years ago before i was diagnosed, and when I was fit, I had really bad rage issues. I'm talking about half the doors in the house having mirrors on both sides now. I, personally, needed the recovery system. Others may not. But like I said, I tried on my own.

Gonna try fitness again, actually. Tomorrow I'm gonna sign up at a gym and get back on the wagon. I was 140 before meds, at my worst on them I was 200, now, after a week of diet, I'm 190.

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Question, when you were having those rage problems had you just started lifting? More specifically, had you recently started to try to bulk up?

I wouldn't say I had rage issues but when I first really started to get into a lifting program and trying to strength train my testosterone levels went through the roof and I was a lot more aggressive. Or at least I think it was due to extra testosterone because I wasn't taking any supplements or anything.

Angelwatch_sl said:

Dependency? You won't get addicted to antidepressants. They're not addictive. The whole idea in taking them is to go on them for a period of time (say 6 months to a year) and then get off them.

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Not trying to negate the rest of your post or advice but this is simply false. You can get addicted to ANYTHING. Gambling, video games, candy. If you mean addicted in the medical sense (chemical receptors and withdrawal symptoms) then maybe that's true (haven't ever looked into anti-depressants) but you sure as hell can get addicted to them in every other sense of the word.

Khane_sl said:

If you mean addicted in the medical sense (chemical receptors and withdrawal symptoms) then maybe that's true (haven't ever looked into anti-depressants) but you sure as hell can get addicted to them in every other sense of the word.

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I was going to rebuke you, but then a quick google search muddied the waters.An example, that I have not done my due diligence scrutinizing. Fucking internet and the easy access to information.

Binkles_sl said:

I was going to rebuke you, but then a quick google search muddied the waters.An example, that I have not done my due diligence scrutinizing. Fucking internet and the easy access to information.

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It's an interesting article but I don't think it goes into enough depth. Their premise is that when you stop taking antidepressants you can suffer really nasty side effects. This is true but it's also easy to avoid. The trick is to not go off of them cold turkey.

I was on Zoloft for about 8 months. I was finally starting to feel better and decided that I didn't need to take it any longer. So I went off of the Zoloft cold turkey. Big mistake. I would have really bad headaches, dry mouth and something that is, affectionately, referred to as "brain zaps." When I went on Effexor, I was on it for about a year. When I was ready to come off of it, I lowered my dosage by a certain amount for several days and then lowered it a bit more. I finally got down to a 25mg dosage (or something very small), for a couple of days and then stopped taking even that low dosage. No side effects or problems.

Personally I believe that clinical depression is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. That imbalance is going to make you feeling a bit down and low on energy. However, when life is going good you really don't notice the effects. However, depression will kick in when things start going wrong with your life. For me it was my loneliness and it sounds like Tarrant has some catalysts as well. The antidepressants are going to fix the chemical imbalance which makes the underlying problems easier to deal with. But that chemical imbalance takes a bad situation and makes it far worse. That's another reason why people say that antidepressants don't work. They expect to take them and become "happy" over night. That's not what they do at all. They simply fix the chemical imbalance and then you can work on the underlying issues. That was my problem the first time I took Zoloft, I didn't deal with the crap in my life so the depression came back stronger than before. When I took antidepressants, got therapy and made some changes in my life, things worked out much better and I haven't had a major case of depression in years.

But as a disclaimer. What the fuck do I know? I'm an accountant, not a doctor.

Angelwatch_sl said:

It's an interesting article but I don't think it goes into enough depth. Their premise is that when you stop taking antidepressants you can suffer really nasty side effects. This is true but it's also easy to avoid. The trick is to not go off of them cold turkey.

I was on Zoloft for about 8 months. I was finally starting to feel better and decided that I didn't need to take it any longer. So I went off of the Zoloft cold turkey. Big mistake. I would have really bad headaches, dry mouth and something that is, affectionately, referred to as "brain zaps." When I went on Effexor, I was on it for about a year. When I was ready to come off of it, I lowered my dosage by a certain amount for several days and then lowered it a bit more. I finally got down to a 25mg dosage (or something very small), for a couple of days and then stopped taking even that low dosage. No side effects or problems.

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Uhh, that's classic... textbook addiction dude.

Khane_sl said:

Uhh, that's classic... textbook addiction dude.

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Except that there is no physical dependency (or tolerance) which is a primary component of addiction. Most people when they are on antidepressants aren't craving them or wanting to get their next fix. Like I keep saying, they're not Tylenol or Vicodin or anything like that. You don't take 2 Zoloft and call the doctor in the morning if the depression is still there. I haven't taken Zoloft in 8 years or Effexor in 5 years and not once during that time period have I felt a craving for these drugs because they don't create a physical dependency. Can a former alcoholic or smoker say the same thing? Or what about someone who was addicted to MMO Games? I might have quit World of Warcraft and Everquest years ago but even today I still get cravings to play.

The problem with that article is that it's mistaking the withdrawal symptoms for physical dependence. You step off of them because they're regulating chemicals in your brain not because of a physical dependency. By stepping off of them, you're giving your brain a chance to regulate itself. The whole goal with antidepressants is NOT to be on them long term but to get on them, get your brain's chemical imbalance righted and then get off of them while addressing the underlying issues.

Look, I get that a lot of people are anti-medication (and not just antidepressants but any medication in general) and that's fine. However, depression is one of those illnesses that if you refuse to go with medication, you're severely handicapping yourself. Can you beat it without medication? Absolutely but it's going to be a lot harder. That's one of the reasons why exercise is often a big piece of advice because getting out and moving gets your brain to produce some chemicals other than the bad crap that's already flowing.

Khane_sl said:

Question, when you were having those rage problems had you just started lifting? More specifically, had you recently started to try to bulk up?

I wouldn't say I had rage issues but when I first really started to get into a lifting program and trying to strength train my testosterone levels went through the roof and I was a lot more aggressive. Or at least I think it was due to extra testosterone because I wasn't taking any supplements or anything.

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Not when I started, but more when I was at a place where my body had never been before strength wise. I would just say i know a lot of guys that say working out calms them, but it had the reverse effect on me. I had a lot of issues though, and I'm pretty sure it was just instead of isolating from them, i was fit enough to physically stop what I perceived was oppressing me. (fucking doors!)


From what I gather, you don't ever stop taking meds for a chemical imbalance. You'd be in it for the long haul.