Diablo 3 - Reaper of Souls

Pyros · Mar 10, 2014

Thorns is a secondary, guaranteeing it doesn't affect the quality of the item. On top of that when it guarantees an affix, it tends to roll higher so those items are specifically better for the builds that rely on the stat. You might not value thorns but a crusader using the thorns weapon and thorns passive might.

If every legendary weapon that dropped had a socket, then it wouldn't matter either and you'd ask for every weapon to drop with attack speed because weapons without attackspeed are worthless in comparison and so on until every weapons drops with the same stats and the only thing that differs is the legendary proc. Legendaries will drop with shit stats, same as every other items. You can try to fix them with the enchanter or if they're not worth it, then they're not worth it and that's all, ARPGs are mostly about looting insane amount of worthless shit to find one good item. And the whole "oh but this item is so bad no one would ever use it" is retarded. People with worse items would use it. They'd use it until they find something better. That's the whole concept. Yes the thorns item isn't very good but being a legendary it can roll higher main stats than a rare, so if you have a standard rare, then it's an upgrade. Doesn't matter that it only has high thorns as its special effect, an upgrade's an upgrade. It means you'll probably find a better item faster than if it was a perfect drop, but if you were getting perfect drops every legendary, you would be fully geared in 3days.

I do agree on the amount of affixes being low though, but at the same time there's a fairly limited amount of stats so you can't have too many affixes slots otherwise it becomes very easy to just get everything all the time. They'd need more stats, and especially with smart loot giving you mostly your main stat it'd be a problem.

Spark · Mar 10, 2014

Kirun_sl said:
Why?

This is what I mean about being concerned that a lot of you people have never played an ARPG before. Just because it's an "OMG! LEGENDARY!", why does that automatically mean it has to be awesome? Why should italwaysbe something you should be able to use/equip? D2 had plenty of awful uniques, same with any ARPG in existence.

It doesn't have to be awesome, but it doesn't have to be completely worthless either. I just don't see the point of garbage legendary items dropping that are of no use to any class/build. It should always be something you would want to use at some point because that is the purpose of the entire game....loot. I don't think anybody is playing for the compelling storyline. It all comes down to loot, it's why I play, it's why my friends play.

I couldn't possibly care any less as to what kind of awful uniques dropped in D2.....I'm not playing D2, I'm playing D3, and I think that if they're going to take the time to create an item, you would think that it they would want it to be even remotely attractive to a specific class/build. Why bother putting it into the game otherwise?

Did you think it was ok when pretty much all the witch doctors in the game were running around with either a Skorn or a Manajuma dagger out of all the weapons available? I'd like to see some useful item diversity. Loot 2.0 is better but there is still room for improvement imo.

Iwazaru_sl · Mar 10, 2014

Ok, away from the rants I have a character question.Tear - Community - Diablo IIIis my wizard. While his DPS shows to be horribly low I don't know what I can upgrade to bring him into the 200+ range. Plus his build is a little strange. Not only does he have a good amount of +disintegrate gear he also has +hydra gear. This is because with my mainhand I can place two hydras at the same time. Combined with the teleport/fracture and illusionist skill I can place 4 hydras down reliably. They hit for 200+ k a shot splash damage. While I can be off kitting or killing other things. I am willing to go for a straight disintegrate build as I get the gear for it. But what specifically should I be looking for gear wise?

TLDR: he feels alittle squishy but has decent DPS. Even if it doesn't show on paper. What to do to make him a power house?

Malakriss · Mar 10, 2014

Iwazaru_sl said:
Tear - Community - Diablo III

Too much of your toughness is in Vitality/Life%, you probably need more All Resists. Damage on your main hand is kind of low, you're really looking for something 1300+ or 1200 with a socket at least. Your helm looks like it can be majorly upgraded, the gloves you can do better than resource reduction and Chest you can dump the secondaries and get something with sockets to boost raw int or toughness stats. In order to push 200k you really need to jack up the Crit% and Crit Damage, something that's difficult with zero legacy loot from the auction house.

ronne · Mar 10, 2014

You need a better source asap. They can roll as high as ~480 added damage and 10% crit. You also need trifecta gloves, more crit on your helm, more crit on your bracers, and to ditch the eternal union for int/crit/crit damage (hellfire ring?). I would focus first on the source, then find a helmet with int/vit/crit/socket on it (you can buy these pretty commonly for a couple million). Once you have a new source and a helm with a socket ditch the eternal union and slot an amethyst in the helm you just got and you won't lose TOO much toughness, but gain a ton of dps.

Easiest chest upgrade is to buy the demon skin set recipe and spam the chest pieces until you get a 300+ int/vit/socket roll with a wiz skill.

Kirun · Mar 10, 2014

Spark_sl said:
It should always be something you would want to use at some point because that is the purpose of the entire game....loot.

Except itissomething you'd use at some point. You'd use it if you had a worse rare/legendary. Just because you have abetteritem, doesn't mean it'd never find use, even if that use was for 2 hours. Certain items will always be better and more coveted, that's the nature of these games. Unless you're seriously advocating that when a legendary drops, it should always be an upgrade? If that's what you're expecting, not only have we crossed into complete absurdity, but you're playing the wrong genre.

Did you think it was ok when pretty much all the witch doctors in the game were running around with either a Skorn or a Manajuma dagger out of all the weapons available? I'd like to see some useful item diversity. Loot 2.0 is better but there is still room for improvement imo.

You do realize that people are always going to find BIS(best in slot), right? Inevitably, people are going to min/max the game down to the best items, and everyone uses exclusively those items, until a patch/balance changes things. That's how this all works. Seriously, do you even RPG? The mentality you're displaying is that all items must be useful all of the time, otherwise they are worthless.

Delly · Mar 10, 2014

So people are going to argue that Blizzard should be spending their time making shitty Legendary items? I'm sure some of them only took mere seconds to come up with considering how shit some of them truly are. If a legendary is going to drop without a unique effect or amazing stats then whats the point? Just make it a rare and call it a day.

And Kirun, there are a lot of shit uniques in Marvel Heroes, except the majority of heroes do rock their class uniques(sets) or a few of the neutral uniques (very rarely). The problem is this is supposed to be the "item" overhaul DIII needed but really it is just more of the same shit with inflated stats. At least they added a few legendary items that are fun/strong.

Spark · Mar 10, 2014

Kirun_sl said:
Except itissomething you'd use at some point. You'd use it if you had a worse rare/legendary. Just because you have abetteritem, doesn't mean it'd never find use, even if that use was for 2 hours. Certain items will always be better and more coveted, that's the nature of these games. Unless you're seriously advocating that when a legendary drops, it should always be an upgrade? If that's what you're expecting, not only have we crossed into complete absurdity, but you're playing the wrong genre.

No Kirun, I'm not saying all legendary drops should be upgrades, I'm saying that each one of them should be useful in some way to a specific class and/or build. That does not necessarily translate into "upgrade." A lot of these items have no apparent use at all....for any class or build. That is my point, nothing more.

You do realize that people are always going to find BIS(best in slot), right? Inevitably, people are going to min/max the game down to the best items, and everyone uses exclusively those items, until a patch/balance changes things. That's how this all works. Seriously, do you even RPG? The mentality you're displaying is that all items must be useful all of the time, otherwise they are worthless.

If loot was done the way I would like for it to be done, then there would be no such thing as BIS. It would all come down to whatever gimmicks or special abilities were on any given legendary item that would suit a particular playstyle/build. Everybody and their brother used a Skorn/Manajuma regardless of what build they were using, be it zombie bears, firebats or whatever. I guess there could be a BIS for a particular build but that would require a lot more variety than just a Skorn or Manajuma dagger.

Again, let me say that I don't think all items must be useful all of the time, I'm saying all LEGENDARY items should be useful for something....and there are hundreds of combinations out there for that to be so. I'm seeing legendary drops that are barely an upgrade for rares.....to me that is pointless. But hey, if you don't mind looting shit legendaries that serve no purpose for any build whatsoever, then have at it.

Trollicious_sl · Mar 10, 2014

While some of that infographic was wrong (all uniques in d2 were brilliant. they weren't but they were a lot cooler than what is currently in game), the part about diablo3 being basically +gooder is spotfuckingon and until that gets fixed, this game has no real long term. Combine with no ability to trade your items, and now all you do is get on the item treadmill with nothing else to do. It is a singleplayer online only game at this point. Maybe that is what they want though. It can't be free hosting d2 servers years after they made any money on that shit. Release expansions every 6-12 months and when no one buys xpac5, kill the servers and start work on d4.

drtyrm · Mar 10, 2014

In order to use the mystic to reroll an ability on a legendary you need to have a Forgotten Soul (acquired from DE'ing a Legendary and as a rare drop from Adventure Mode rift.) So even a non-perfect legendary has value/use.

Sinzar · Mar 10, 2014

I know almost nothing about RoS info. When saying you "reroll" a stat with the enchanter, do you pick a stat to change, and it randomly rolls a new one, or do you pick a stat and also pick the one it changes into?

Fogia_sl · Mar 10, 2014

I started playing again this week-end, but I'm a bit lost with the loot changes, esp. because I didn't spent much time theory crafting even before the patch. I won't ask for specific feedback since I guess I'm bound to upgrade pretty much everything, even if I upgraded most of my stuff over the week-end (Fogia - Community - Diablo III). However, does anyone have some monk guidelines/pointers/guides, mainly regarding how to gear one up post-patch ?

Denaut · Mar 10, 2014

Sinzar_sl said:
I know almost nothing about RoS info. When saying you "reroll" a stat with the enchanter, do you pick a stat to change, and it randomly rolls a new one, or do you pick a stat and also pick the one it changes into?

I found this blue post from December, it may or may not still be accurate.

Mystic Question - enchanting rerolls - Forums - Diablo III

Sinzar · Mar 10, 2014

Denaut_sl said:
I found this blue post from December, it may or may not still be accurate.

Mystic Question - enchanting rerolls - Forums - Diablo III

Ok, so it's not like WoW where you pick a stat and choose the new stat it becomes, it's just totally random. I can see how that will become a huge gold sink. A post or so earlier said it takes disenchanted legendaries to reroll another legendary, and it's random what your result is? Damn, the people saying no socket doesn't matter, just reroll it in expac are assuming quite a bit of luck then!

drtyrm · Mar 10, 2014

That link is accurate to how the system works as of the beta. One thing I didn't see mentioned though: in the Mystic's UI you can see a break down of every possible affix and the ranges it can roll. You have full information of what you could possible get in that slot.

Mahes · Mar 10, 2014

I just want a carrot that is more than gooder loot that allows me to kill faster.

The carrot before was the occasional chance to loot something that could be sold for real money on the AH. That gave a good reason to want to make your character more powerful and thus increase the chances for getting those kinds of drops. This carrot has been removed from the game.

So what is the carrot now? I am hoping that unique legendaries will be added to Diablo that have a chance of dropping on torrent 6 only. They need to have their own graphics and a player that sees your character, should have no doubt what you accomplished. These legendaries should live up to the word legendary. That would be a nice carrot. Since trade has been removed, something else needs to take its place.

The endless dungeon is also a carrot of sorts since the game then becomes " How high can I climb and kill Donkey Kong". Again though, unique items need to drop that show that a player has accomplished something. Make the item have a chance of dropping after 100 levels, then 150 levels and so on.

What made Dungeons and Dragons enjoyable was not only the building of a character, but the chance at killing a dragon, not because we were sadistic, but because we knew that as powerful as the dragon was that it had to have some incredible treasure.

Amzin · Mar 10, 2014

slippery_sl said:
You're going to have crafted a better amulet than that long before it drops if you're even remotely trying. It's the same with Bracers. You craft 15 bracers and you've probably got one better than almost any legendary you'll get because the guaranteed stats almost always take away from something you actually want. There are tons of legendaries that guarantee things like Thorns. Great, thorns. I'm so glad my legendary guarantees me thorns and means I can't get a stat that might actually be useful.

No, YOU'RE going to have crafted a better amulet than that. I guarantee you the unwashed masses or whatever you would consider the average D3 player to be are not as l33t as you and there's a fair chance that amulet is worth something to them. My wife just started playing Diablo 3 a couple weeks ago and unless I force her hand that amulet would probably be a considerable upgrade to whatever she has right now. And she enjoys playing, a lot, just doesn't min max, doesn't focus only on upgrading every item the best possible way, etc. That's not an excuse for the legendaries/set pieces that literally are 100% trash (there are a few of those) but it is why there's some that aren't 100% BiS and that's fine. The friends of ours she's playing with are the same way (I'm not really currently playing with them as I'm insane and already have every class at 60).

Other people have already responded to your other points so I'll leave that alone but I wanted to respond to this as I actually know people in real life whom this is true for.

Mr Creed · Mar 10, 2014

slippery_sl said:
I never said I agreed with the picture. I know this is hard for you, so I'll explain it. I said I MOSTLY agreed with the picture. Then IN THE VERY NEXT SENTENCE I went to elaborate my point of WHAT EXACTLY I agreed with and felt. Context, such a hard concept right?

Except you aren't going to use those weapons in the expansion because new drops will be better, regardless of what you reroll.

If the legendary isn't actually going to be better than a generic yellow, why have it exist at all? The baseline should be better than generic rare loot. That means Legendary should always roll with a socket for weapons, chest, pants, and helm. Bracers and Helm should roll Crit. Gloves, Rings, and Amulets should at least have 1 of the 3 trifecta stats. When you roll legendaries that don't have any of these, they're just garbage. Even more so when it is a legendary that doesn't even have a unique effect. Those things shouldn't exist. We don't need 50 terrible legendaries, we just need some good ones. If you want better gear across the board make better rares. Legendary should mean something. If it wasn't going to mean something we wouldn't need this huge particle of light and a star on the map and special noise.

Rerolling isn't going to change that. You're still going to have to roll the property you want. The chances might be a little better, but at the end of the day instead of crafting you'll just be rolling that one stat over and over and over, and there is no guarantee you'll even get what you want.

I think Deathwing is too rabid in his defense of D3 most of the time. But I also categorically disagree with your take. Legendaries could (should? imo yes) be flavorful and open up new build possibilities by having unique abilities or modifiers. The now that turns elemental arrow around is a prime example of what I am looking for in legendaries. If their purpose is to offer +gooder, why not just make them a higher level rare?

Mr Creed · Mar 10, 2014

DeLLy_sl said:
I don't really care how D2 does it because D2 is not a contender anymore. I care about how Path of Exile and Marvel Heroes do it. They each have their own unique way of doing things and I think they both do it right for their gameplay. If you think DIII is doing a comparable job in the "legendary/epic/unique" department as those two games then you're just a fanboy. Just another example of little companies getting shit done and big companies expecting their brand to carry itself.

This just felt worth repeating. I'm hoping the expansion catches D3 up to PoE with regards to build diversity and interesting itemization. Or at least gets closer to it.

Kirun · Mar 10, 2014

DeLLy_sl said:
And Kirun, there are a lot of shit uniques in Marvel Heroes, except the majority of heroes do rock their class uniques(sets) or a few of the neutral uniques (very rarely).

Sure, most heroes use most of their uniques. However, they don't use all of their uniques. And for somebody complaining about D3 needing an item overhaul, because it's "just the same shit with inflated stats", you're touting a system that is no less boring. It's nothing but Gugnir and the 1-5 uniques that are BIS for your hero. Wow...exciting!

Spark_sl said:
No Kirun, I'm not saying all legendary drops should be upgrades, I'm saying that each one of them should be useful in some way to a specific class and/or build. That does not necessarily translate into "upgrade." A lot of these items have no apparent use at all....for any class or build. That is my point, nothing more.

Except theydohave a use. They may not be useful based on your current level of gear, your class, your build, or whatever, but I've yet to find a legendary drop where I looked at the stats and went.."Hah! What a complete pile of shit!". Have they all been upgrades? Absolutely not. Have they all had great rolls? Nope. In fact, I had a Witching Hour drop the other day which rolled near the bottom on every single affix. That is why we play ARPGs. It's all about hunting for the "perfect" item, the build changing item, etc.

Spark_sl said:
I'm seeing legendary drops that are barely an upgrade for rares.....to me that is pointless. But hey, if you don't mind looting shit legendaries that serve no purpose for any build whatsoever, then have at it.

Barely an upgrade is still an upgrade, no? So, not entirely worthless as you're attempting to claim. Not to mention, perfectly rolled rares, in many cases, will be just as good/better than legendary items. Diablo has always been this way. Most ARPGs are this way. In Marvel Heroes, well rolled cosmics are better than a lot of uniques. A perfectly rolled rareshouldbe better than an averagely rolled legendary. The fact that you and others think any time a legendary item drops, it should immediately be something you want to equip/save, tells me that you haven't been playing this genre for very long. ARPGs are really just glorified, graphical slot machines. You keep pulling the handle, hoping for that proverbial jackpot. You're going to find all kinds of horrible trash along the way. Why do you think it costs legendary mats to craft legendary items, reroll affixes, etc.? Shitty loot is exactly that. It's meant to be discarded.

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