Diablo 4 / IV / IIII / Fore / Cope / Seethe

Kirun · Mar 21, 2023

Xevy said:
That's just the skills that fit into the window.

20-50 divines for a Uber capable build? It WAS my league starter. Takes about 3 divines to clear all non-Uber bosses. Can clear red maps with less than a divine. But hey, it says there that 3.5 months into the league only 7 out of 1000 people played it so it must be bad! Because that's how stats work when you don't understand the data they're pulled from!

And those 12 skills represent roughly 2/3rds of ALL builds. Nobody gives a fuck that you were able to clear normal Atziri with some fucking obscure as fuck phase run build - that doesn't make phase run a fucking "viable" skill.

T11 is technically "red" maps, I'm not impressed by people who twist that statistic. 20-50 fucking divines is a pretty crazy amount of farming to obtain, roughly a tenth of a mirror. I'm not questioning the "viability" of the build at endgame. I'm questioning the "viability" of the build for people who can't no-life, poopsock the fuck out of PoE to earn up that amount of currency "quickly", without MASSIVE amounts of game knowledge/luck.

zombiewizardhawk · Mar 21, 2023

It's 11 skills not 12, 2 of them are tornado shot. And it makes up 75% so it being just the skills in the window doesn't mean much. Obviously poe.ninja isn't the be all end all of data. I don't know why you guys keep insisting on arguing about this, though. Maybe one of these days I will go full retard and go dig up the plethora of posts from the PoE thread with everyone talking about x or y meta builds every single league.

Also, 99% of the "build diversity" in PoE is only diversity in the form of what animation plays as you explode full screens (or multiple screens) of mobs with each button press. Every bow skill plays basically the same, every totem build plays the same, etc. Support gems are very limited with no almost no options, all just various forms of +dmg. Skill tree diversity is non existant despite how "cool and gigantic" the skill tree is. You guys all even admit you can't just go around picking what seems good on it, you have to aim for very specific things and ignore all the other nodes.

Like I said before, even if there are 15 or so meaningfully different builds that are viable for all content (aka no "lol I put together a very specific build that literally can't do anything except 1shot uber bosses" builds), that's not a significant difference from D3 or D4 having 2 per class (14 and 10 respectively with 7 and 5 classes).

Xevy · Mar 21, 2023

Kirun said:
And those 12 skills represent roughly 2/3rds of ALL builds. Nobody gives a fuck that you were able to clear normal Atziri with some fucking obscure as fuck phase run build - that doesn't make phase run a fucking "viable" skill.

T11 is technically "red" maps, I'm not impressed by people who twist that statistic. 20-50 fucking divines is a pretty crazy amount of farming to obtain, roughly a tenth of a mirror. I'm not questioning the "viability" of the build at endgame. I'm questioning the "viability" of the build for people who can't no-life, poopsock the fuck out of PoE to earn up that amount of currency "quickly", without MASSIVE amounts of game knowledge/luck.

They represent the most META builds at the END of a league of ONLY level 100 characters. These are speed clearing/farming builds. Some of these builds, in fact, could NOT do Atziri. So potentially none of these are viable?

20-50 divines is literally how much you have (net) 2-3 weeks in easily. I don't farm and sell, I just find items and sell. If you think I'm a meta Atlas shaper you're wrong. I literally just play and progress my character. If you don't have the equivalent of 20 divines by two weeks in if you've been playing more than 3 hours a day average I don't know what to tell you.

You're also proving my point. People talk about build diversity and it's in there. Then they show these PoE Ninja stats which are just farmers and go "LOOK MAN, ONLY like 9 ASCENDANCIES OF 19 TOTAL ARE GOOD!" No, those are just the best 9 at zooming and booming. Slayer is a god tier bosser. Chieftain can be as well.

Basically most people are too ignorant of actual PoE systems and too RELIANT on METAS from shit like REDDIT and YOUTUBE guide videos to be able to say ANYTHING about build diversity because all they do is go to McDonald's, Burger King, and Wendy's then complain about how no place serves a good steak. The complexity of PoE is it's own achilles heel, but the ignorance of the average player is the reason these dumb fucking arguments always come up.

Xevy · Mar 21, 2023

Let me simplify this for you:

"I'm too dumb/busy with RL/lazy to figure out a build I want to make and it make it work. I'll do what 90% of PoE players do and copy a readily available, already successful build so that I can do everything I want. -------> There are only these builds because I am too dumb/busy/lazy to do anything else."

Edit: Don't even MENTION d3. Let's take the 150 GR cap off again and lets see where Sorcs are compared to literally everyone else. Anyone checked in on Crusaders mental health lately?

zombiewizardhawk · Mar 21, 2023

Xevy said:
20-50 divines is literally how much you have (net) 2-3 weeks in easily.

Lol no. You're not even worth responding to any more honestly, you're spewing more nonsense than Ut.

Mahes · Mar 21, 2023

So I have been reading a lot of the reviews here. Is it safe to say that Epoch might actually be the better game? Nothing about how this game is getting reviewed lends to me wanting to spend any time bothering with it, even for free.(This coming weekend).

Mist · Mar 21, 2023

Mahes said:
So I have been reading a lot of the reviews here. Is it safe to say that Epoch might actually be the better game? Nothing about how this game is getting reviewed lends to me wanting to spend any time bothering with it, even for free.(This coming weekend).

You literall just said it's free. Give it a try. Like or don't.

I guarantee it's worth trying for free, as long as the servers aren't completely fucking jacked up. If you're not having fun by level 15, quit.

Kirun · Mar 21, 2023

Xevy said:
You're also proving my point. People talk about build diversity and it's in there. Then they show these PoE Ninja stats which are just farmers and go "LOOK MAN, ONLY like 9 ASCENDANCIES OF 19 TOTAL ARE GOOD!" No, those are just the best 9 at zooming and booming. Slayer is a god tier bosser. Chieftain can be as well.

Basically most people are too ignorant of actual PoE systems and too RELIANT on METAS from shit like REDDIT and YOUTUBE guide videos to be able to say ANYTHING about build diversity because all they do is go to McDonald's, Burger King, and Wendy's then complain about how no place serves a good steak. The complexity of PoE is it's own achilles heel, but the ignorance of the average player is the reason these dumb fucking arguments always come up.

Wow. This guy is literally a PoE genius that NOBODY knows about. Creating earthshattering "off-meta" builds that nobody has ever heard of and it's all SO SIMPLE - if you just have an IQ off the charts like he does.

Do you stream? I bet you're at LEAST a 2k Andy with the plethora of PoE knowledge you have that nobody else's pea brain can comprehend.

Xevy · Mar 21, 2023

Kirun said:
Wow. This guy is literally a PoE genius that NOBODY knows about. Creating earthshattering "off-meta" builds that nobody has ever heard of and it's all SO SIMPLE - if you just have an IQ off the charts like he does.

Do you stream? I bet you're at LEAST a 2k Andy with the plethora of PoE knowledge you have that nobody else's pea brain can comprehend.

Great rebuttal! Such good points!

Going to let anyone who wants to learn the basics of playing PoE to take posts to the PoE thread, since this is the D4 thread and the D4 people could probably give two shits about this.

Penance · Mar 21, 2023

zombiewizardhawk said:
It's 11 skills not 12, 2 of them are tornado shot. And it makes up 75% so it being just the skills in the window doesn't mean much. Obviously poe.ninja isn't the be all end all of data. I don't know why you guys keep insisting on arguing about this, though. Maybe one of these days I will go full retard and go dig up the plethora of posts from the PoE thread with everyone talking about x or y meta builds every single league.

Also, 99% of the "build diversity" in PoE is only diversity in the form of what animation plays as you explode full screens (or multiple screens) of mobs with each button press. Every bow skill plays basically the same, every totem build plays the same, etc. Support gems are very limited with no almost no options, all just various forms of +dmg. Skill tree diversity is non existant despite how "cool and gigantic" the skill tree is. You guys all even admit you can't just go around picking what seems good on it, you have to aim for very specific things and ignore all the other nodes.

Like I said before, even if there are 15 or so meaningfully different builds that are viable for all content (aka no "lol I put together a very specific build that literally can't do anything except 1shot uber bosses" builds), that's not a significant difference from D3 or D4 having 2 per class (14 and 10 respectively with 7 and 5 classes).

Why do you keep dismissing a variety of builds if they can only do all content?

You act like the game doesn't have a ton of avenues you can play and make amazing currency and progress with a shit ton of variety.

You boil everything down to plus more or whatever stupid shit you keep spouting. Support skills change entire profiles of skills. Other skills such as shouts, traps, triggers, and combo skills. Supports that completely augment if you use life instead of mana. Supports that augment if you ise more mana because you can stack a huge mana pool to augment damage. There are literally hundreds upon hundreds of viable builds in many types of content and if you have enough currency you can make anything in the game viable for everything.

You are obviously dogshit at the game and can't get out of yellow maps on the most meta builds.

Forget D4 man, I think Diablo immortal might be more up your alley.

Penance · Mar 21, 2023

Kirun said:
Wow. This guy is literally a PoE genius that NOBODY knows about. Creating earthshattering "off-meta" builds that nobody has ever heard of and it's all SO SIMPLE - if you just have an IQ off the charts like he does.

Do you stream? I bet you're at LEAST a 2k Andy with the plethora of PoE knowledge you have that nobody else's pea brain can comprehend.

Actual reddit comment.

Penance · Mar 21, 2023

1987 · Mar 21, 2023

Poe is a good game, doesn't mean this can't be.

But you guys are to d4 what trannies are to hogwarts legacy. I might buy it three times now.

Tearofsoul · Mar 21, 2023

Ortega · Mar 21, 2023

Not looking to get into the PoE debate, but I find it hilarious that every single anti build diversity person doesn't realize the inevitable conclusion of their logic.

There is ALWAYS a best build. Some of us don't fucking sit on Youtube/Reddit and get spoonfed the absolutely best build that's been discovered lately. We like diversity in builds so that we can make choices and see how it works out. If you don't like that then congrats stick to YouTube or whatever, but that doesn't mean you have to advocate for a spoonfed Blizzard Daddy please just give me a button to make me the best Frost Sorc or Fire Sorc build instantaneously because I don't want to think at all.

If you tards actually thought your logic through you would be arguing against any stats on armor besides +gooder. Like Blizzard why do we need all these % modifiers and secondary effects, it's too fucking complicated and there's clearly a "best" choice in there somewhere. Please Daddy Blizzard just make a single stat with GIGANTIC green or red numbers so I know what's better!!!!!

Penance · Mar 21, 2023

Tearofsoul said:
View attachment 464847

Tide27 · Mar 21, 2023

I don't see why people can't enjoy each game for what it is.

I played PoE up to lvl 90 about 3x, bought some stash tabs etc. I enjoyed the time I spent there, but got toward the end game and despised it. Not the games fault, it was just not what I preferred...so I quit.

I personally don't want Diabo 4 to be like PoE, to be like Lost Ark, to be like Last Epoch....enjoy each game for what it is.

As far as D4 goes, my disappointment is in the fact that it doesn't seem like it's moved the genre forward or been worth the 11+ year wait. Most of us will be senior citizens by the time the next attempt at Diablo 5 will be released.

Kinda like.my anger toward EA for killing off the 2k franchise. I would never have imagined that a football game 18 years ago was still superior to one made in 2022 in many aspects.

More competition drives better games. I don't want all arpgs to be the same...rather enjoy them now because they are each different in their own ways.

zombiewizardhawk · Mar 21, 2023

Penance said:
Why do you keep dismissing a variety of builds if they can only do all content?
You act like the game doesn't have a ton of avenues you can play and make amazing currency and progress with a shit ton of variety.

You boil everything down to plus more or whatever stupid shit you keep spouting. Support skills change entire profiles of skills. Other skills such as shouts, traps, triggers, and combo skills. Supports that completely augment if you use life instead of mana. Supports that augment if you ise more mana because you can stack a huge mana pool to augment damage. There are literally hundreds upon hundreds of viable builds in many types of content and if you have enough currency you can make anything in the game viable for everything.

You are obviously dogshit at the game and can't get out of yellow maps on the most meta builds.

Forget D4 man, I think Diablo immortal might be more up your alley.

Is that not how people are comparing builds from other games to them? "Oh d3 only has 1 build that can do grift 757, no diversity lol only 1 playable build"? If that's not what people are doing then why the fuck isn't anyone saying d2 or d3 have dozens of builds (one for each skill/rune) since you could use it, you just wouldn't be able to do a bunch of stuff?

I'm not acting like PoE doesn't have a lot to do, and i've never said I don't like the game. I've said repeatedly that I do like it and that i've played it on and off for 10+ years. All i'm doing is providing counter points to all the fucking retards coming in here making shit up about the game in an effort to make other games seem inferior. Go ahead and say whatever you want to call me stupid, that's all anyone does on this forum when they can't actually counter any of the points I make, on any fucking topic. It's like debating fucking 9 year olds.

What supports change the "entire profile of skills"? Spell echo? "Such a change, you cast the spell 3 times now instead of once! It's totally different casting a spell fast vs casting it slow!" "Increased AOE, you hit a bigger area! Changes things up compeltely its' a whole new abilitay!" "You can stack mana to add more dmg to your skill if you use this gem. That's totally different than a boring, generic passive point on a skill tree that adds dmg to your skill! Poe is innovative and unique and special and the best forever and you're just a big dum dum for not seeing how it's totally not the same thing!"

zombiewizardhawk · Mar 21, 2023

Lets see here. Amazon in D2 has 30 skills. They get 100 skill points. How many possible variations are there on that, i'm too stupid to do the math. I bet it's more than the "hundreds and hundreds of viable poe builds" tho, and that's only 1 class.

D3 barbarian has 23 skills with 6 runes each. That's a shit load of possible combinations too, and only 1 of 7 classes. Tally them all up and PoEs "Hundreds and hundreds" are a pathetic amount, again. Oh and there are 3 followers with multiple skills each, too, that can each be used in combination with any of the possible skill combinations. Now we're getting to the good stuff. Possibly millions of builds!?

Uh oh.

Penance · Mar 21, 2023

zombiewizardhawk said:
i'm too stupid

Yes we know. Fuck POE I'm done talking about it. I have no idea if D4 has amazing build variety or not. I could give a shit if they do or don't. Definitely won't affect my choice on the matter if I play or not, especially if each class has one viable build that is fun to play.

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