DOOM: The Dark Ages

Jovec

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Anyone play DOOM and Duke Nuke'em 3D with a Roland Sound Canvas back in the day?





Roland had a daughterboard for SB16s that did this exact thing. I paid around $225 IIRC for mine back in 1995(?). Had to have a computer shop special order it. Not sure on the exact model, but SCB-7 or SCB-10 or SCB-55. Wish I still had all those cool toys I bought back when I young and dumb(er).
 
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What’s the significance of that Roland amplifier/processor? Does it enhance the sound? I thought it was an Axe FX at first.

Alright gay boys, I just finished the first level of Doom Dark Ages and here are my thoughts as a lifelong Doomer.

Visuals are absolutely stunning. Monsters look more or less like Eternal and not their hella bloody horror counterparts in Doom 3 or 2016. But the environment and effects are beautiful. The soundtrack is decent and more industrial / string focused (almost Ancient Mediterranean meets Djent Industrial). It’s not as good as 2016 but nothing to complain about with soundtrack. Gunplay feels great. Gun sounds awesome. Level design is very Doom-ish.

Thats about it for praise from me. Doom is about being a one man killing machine. Having your other Sentinels in your ear talking to you is hella distracting. I played on Nightmare with aim assist turned off. I recently played through Doom 2016 and Eternal the past quarter and it’s just not up to the quality of either of those.

Game also crashed my XSX while loading level 2.

I can get over cut scenes or annoying teammates or that they took away glory kills. What kills it for me is the reliance on melee and parrying. Gameplay loop isn’t very fun. A shooter is about fast responses and in this game there is a very delayed attack mechanic from the ranged enemies. Their attacks come at you at the speed of smell, basically. This adds a parrying mechanic. The shield is a cool idea for defense against ranged enemies, but I do not like using it for melee or to throw. Just feels out of place in Doom. (FWIW I also didn’t like the doom laser sword in the eternals dlc)

okay, lions, why don’t you just only use guns and not melee then? I tried that. I kept running out of ammo (which shouldn’t be a thing in a Doom game). I’m not a bad aim, either. The game is designed to be a blend of ranged weapons and heavy focus on melee.

Overall, if you’re looking for Doom experience, I’d recommend these over Dark Ages:

Doom 2016

Doom Eternal + DLC

40K: Necromunda Hired Gun

Side note, not sure if the Planet Hebeth on Lvl 2 is intentionally supposed to be Mars or not, but it’s 100% Mars. In the introduction to the level you can see Tharsis and Mariner Valley. As a whole I dislike that they introduced a weird Alien aspect in Eternal. Doom should be Demons vs Doomguy

update: it is supposed to be Mars. The city gets later sunk and you are taken there in Doom Eternal via the BFG. I watched a video by one of the developers and I’m going to try it again but using the slider modifiers to increase projectile speeds and increase ammo drops.

yes, slow moving projectiles we’re in Doom 1993 (I played through it last month), but they were the exception and not the default. In Doom Dark Ages, every single horde has dreadfully slow moving laser blasts coming at you.
 
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Jovec

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What’s the significance of that Roland amplifier/processor? Does it enhance the sound? I thought it was an Axe FX at first.

Back then, computer game music was midi files (essentially text files of musical notations) and the sound was generated synthetically by the sound card. IOW, some tones were generated via math and modified to sort of sound like a guitar or piano. The Roland used sound samples from actual instruments so the music sounded significantly better. Eventually, games moved to just streaming compressed music directly off the cd/hdd install in a digital format (like mp3s) so everyone got the same sound experience.

SB16 default midi vs with Roland midi
 
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Shmoopy

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Mick Gordon is GOAT, and they definitely fucked him over, but this soundtrack is amazing. More metal than the previous ones.

 
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Shmoopy

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BTW the melee combat is surprisingly great. Shield charge, parry, blocking, fists, etc. all are incredibly satisfying.

Need a Skyrim clone with this quality of melee combat ASAP. :emoji_thumbsup:
 
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Shmoopy

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Looking at player numbers. This seems not super high? Biggest surprise holy shit Age of Empire 2 still has that many players?

SteamStats-1.jpg
 
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Back then, computer game music was midi files (essentially text files of musical notations) and the sound was generated synthetically by the sound card. IOW, some tones were generated via math and modified to sort of sound like a guitar or piano. The Roland used sound samples from actual instruments so the music sounded significantly better. Eventually, games moved to just streaming compressed music directly off the cd/hdd install in a digital format (like mp3s) so everyone got the same sound experience.

SB16 default midi vs with Roland midi
Thanks!
 

Wantonsoup95

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This is 2am microwaved pizza Doom. It's nothing like that pizza when it came out of the oven. Glad I Gamepassed it.
 
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Rajaah

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It is some space planet setting that is sort of medieval but has guns and giant robots. The closest comparison would probably be Warhammer 40k.

Having played the first level (of 22), yeah this is very Warhammer-ish.

Not seeing much Elden Ring similarity yet, not sure what people meant by that.

Way too much melee combat, way too much lore, cutscenes, people talking in your ear, teammates to begin with...

I like the dash strikes, which are reminiscent of Mass Effect's Vanguard class.
 
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Having played the first level (of 22), yeah this is very Warhammer-ish.

Not seeing much Elden Ring similarity yet, not sure what people meant by that.

Way too much melee combat, way too much lore, cutscenes, people talking in your ear, teammates to begin with...

I like the dash strikes, which are reminiscent of Mass Effect's Vanguard class.
I think the from software comparisons are purely because parrying is so big in from software games (dark souls, Sekiro, elden ring). That’s the only thing I can think of that it’s similar to a FS game, but FS does parrying and shield work so much better than Doom.
 

Chapell

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Gamepass, overpriced game, an RTX graphics card minimum of 8GB VRAM is mandatory (not complaining but that's also why many ppl can't play it right now).
I am still interested in playing it, but at a later time.
 
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I think the best description would be:

Doom, as brought to you by EA.
Spot on.

I also tried to run it last night on my lenovo legion go, and it wouldnt run it. But it does run Eternal and 2016 on ultra graphics at 144+ fps, so not sure why it won't run Dark Ages. The Xbox SX runs Doom Dark Ages. I tried to speed up the projectiles, but it only speeds up ballistic projectiles and not the slow moving green laser things that you have to parry. Overall. I think I'm over this game. It had a lot of potential but just isn't quite Doom imo.
 
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Dr.Retarded

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Anyone play DOOM and Duke Nuke'em 3D with a Roland Sound Canvas back in the day?




Edit: sorry was catching up, Jovec Jovec had it covered

What the hell? I mean we used to play PVP one on one Duke nukem over the modem, but I didn't realize Roland had something with the game or whatever the hell this is. That's pretty crazy. I'm assuming they're just filtering the MIDI data into the machine somehow?

I do have a Roland VG99 and the Japs really do make some great music equipment. Some of the greatest synthesizers in all of human history.
 
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ShakyJake

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Edit: sorry was catching up, Jovec Jovec had it covered

What the hell? I mean we used to play PVP one on one Duke nukem over the modem, but I didn't realize Roland had something with the game or whatever the hell this is. That's pretty crazy. I'm assuming they're just filtering the MIDI data into the machine somehow?

I do have a Roland VG99 and the Japs really do make some great music equipment. Some of the greatest synthesizers in all of human history.
Hmm..... here, I had ChatGPT to explain this far better than I could.... if I'm understanding your confusion that is.

In the 1990s, many PC games used MIDI (Musical Instrument Digital Interface) to handle music playback. Unlike digital audio (e.g., MP3 or WAV), MIDI does not contain actual sound recordings. Instead, it consists of a sequence of instructions—such as "play middle C on channel 1 using an electric piano instrument"—which are interpreted and rendered by the computer’s MIDI synthesizer hardware or software.


Why MIDI Was Used​


MIDI was attractive to game developers because:


  • It required very little storage space compared to sampled audio.
  • It allowed for complex, multi-voice music playback using minimal CPU and memory.
  • It was already widely supported by common PC sound hardware.

How MIDI Sound Varied by Hardware​


Because MIDI is not audio, the actual sound of a MIDI track depended entirely on how the MIDI messages were interpreted. This meant that the same MIDI file could sound dramatically different depending on the sound card or MIDI module.


Sound Blaster 16 (SB16)


  • Released by Creative in 1992.
  • Included a Yamaha OPL3 FM synthesizer for MIDI playback.
  • FM synthesis is a method of sound generation that uses frequency modulation of waveforms to approximate instrument sounds.
  • Result: Instrument sounds were often harsh, synthetic, and unrealistic. It was suitable for simple game music but lacked nuance.

Roland Sound Canvas (e.g., SC-55)


  • A standalone MIDI sound module or add-in card, based on sample-based synthesis.
  • Contained high-quality recordings (samples) of real instruments.
  • Supported the General MIDI (GM) standard with excellent fidelity.
  • Result: Music sounded rich, nuanced, and much closer to what the composer intended, especially when games were composed with the Sound Canvas in mind.

Example: Doom (1993)


  • Composed by Bobby Prince using a Roland Sound Canvas.
  • On a Sound Canvas: Guitar riffs, drums, and melodies sounded full and expressive.
  • On a Sound Blaster 16: The same tracks sounded hollow, with drums and guitars sounding artificial or comically wrong.

Summary Comparison Table​


FeatureSound Blaster 16Roland Sound Canvas SC-55
Synthesis MethodFM synthesis (Yamaha OPL3)Sample-based synthesis
MIDI SupportLimited General MIDIFull General MIDI + GS extensions
Instrument QualityApproximate, syntheticRealistic, high-fidelity
CostLowHigh
Composer Target DeviceRarelyFrequently

Conclusion​


The significant variation in MIDI playback quality was a result of delegating sound generation to the playback hardware. A game’s soundtrack could sound basic or spectacular depending on the hardware used. Roland’s Sound Canvas became a reference device for many game composers, leading to a divide between the intended and actual audio experience for most players who used more affordable cards like the Sound Blaster 16.
And, by the way, Roland didn't specifically have anything to do with DOOM or Duke Nuk'em. They just had their own MIDI sound cards, same as many other companies that offered those back in the day.
 
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Dr.Retarded

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Hmm..... here, I had ChatGPT to explain this far better than I could.... if I'm understanding your confusion that is.


And, by the way, Roland didn't specifically have anything to do with DOOM or Duke Nuk'em. They just had their own MIDI sound cards, same as many other companies that offered those back in the day.
I didn't think that they had something to do with the games themselves I just didn't know people were running basically a synthesizer to redo the music for old games like that. I just found it surprising and cool.

If I remember, MIDI is musical instrument digital interface. I've got a Goden guitar that's actually has got to MIDI hookup, and that's what I use with the vg99 vs using the pickup that came with the system.

I haven't screwed around with my music equipment and quite a long time, just kind of sitting in a corner of my office, and haven't kept up with probably what's amazing advancements and what VSTs and synths and shit are now capable of. Pretty sure a lot of the synthwave music that gets made is all painted using FL Studio on the midi interface, or using another DAW. I just know at all studio is pretty user friendly vs something like Pro Tools or Abel

Too many hobbies, too little time. I need a dust off the stuff one of these days, or at least give it to my nephew.
 
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