DOTA 2

Zaphid_sl said:

Radiance ? Mek is infinitely better, maybe even pipe on top of it. Sure, if you have freefarm and somehow find yourself with 3k in your pocket, then you can probably farm up the relic, but mek is much more versatile, gives you another heal, armor and makes your team almost unkillable, for extra lulz get chen on your team.

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Did you even read... I said if you wanna pubstomp and can get it pre 20 mins, go radiance, otherwise go healroute (obviously mek) for boring support route

Nutron_sl said:

Did you even read... I said if you wanna pubstomp and can get it pre 20 mins, go radiance, otherwise go healroute (obviously mek) for boring support route

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But a necro with mek is nowhere near a support if you get it fast (also takes 2k less gold than a radiance). In fact, you'll probably get more kills with a mek than a radiance.

an accordion_sl said:

But a necro with mek is nowhere near a support if you get it fast (also takes 2k less gold than a radiance). In fact, you'll probably get more kills with a mek than a radiance.

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in no world would i get more kills with a mek than a radiance because im always full hp as necro anyway?

In no world is necro at full HP always.

I think the funny part here is Nutron thinks Radiance is this awesome hero killing item, when in actuality it's main use is farming, it's on par with Battle Fury.

exactly your hp proc is basicaly always up. the +60 dmg on auto attacks is nothing to scoff at 20 mins in. As i said, great pubstomper item.

If you have the space to farm up Radiance, you might as well get Dagon 3 for the Dagon+ulti kills, also a great pubstomping item. Radiance makes people want to kill you really fast and if you have boots + Radiance, it's not really that hard in a world where skywrath, lions and lina can nuke you 100-0 in a second.

http://dotabuff.com/matches/216495094
http://dotabuff.com/matches/211856417
http://dotabuff.com/matches/211837142
http://dotabuff.com/matches/183010665
http://dotabuff.com/matches/130583612

My latest necro games. As i said, radiance, great pubstomper item on necro. Those games are all on very high. Makes you able to farm any wave in one Q, get your whole mana and hp back from it. One of the easiest heroes to win mid with also, regardless of items.

I would not get dagon because its not necesary. One q, 2-3 auto attacks and your ult will kill anyone at 20 mins with a radiance. Obviously a more USEFUL item would be to go straight to a sheep stick or silence stick or a force staff or a mek or a athos or a shiva or a ...etc... I'm talking about a good old pubstomp, nothing beats going radiance first

1st game in link; no radiance cause my mission was to make huskar realize his new shield and ghost scepter build were still garbage vs a good necro.

lol just played PL for the first time seriously and wow.

People dont seem to really feel the need to get dust or a gem for him so you can basically escape over and over again. (not in low tier pubs anyway) Then once you get a diffusal blade and some crit his spirit lance + diffusal slow is basically a guaranteed kill if your juxtapose pops once or twice. Then add in a sange and yasha for maim and attack speed and he is pretty fucking hard to stop (pushing and in team fights). Even raped a team w Earthshaker on it. I would just dopplewalk after getting up some illusions and bait him into echoslamming then just rape him.

Even a hard carry semi fed Bloodseeker had little chance once illusions were up and diffusal bladed. Spirit Breaker as well. He is like the ultimate fuck you pick and can pretty much ruin any game that doesnt have a Dark Seer, Medusa, or other heroes who can easily eliminate illusions.

Nutron: Radiance on ANY hero before 20 minutes will let you stomp the pub. Necro is honestly one of the weakest heroes to rush Radiance on. He basically has built in Radiance, what he needs is survivability and mana to keep it going. But yes, any pub game in which you can get a sub-20 Radiance you will stomp hard anyway.

Jozu: He can ruin any game, period. Any game with a PL instantly becomes about the PL, because from the late-mid game he will ruin your day if you haven't dedicated significant resources to stopping him. He has a power level comparable to Spectre in the late game, but is also a rather strong laner, farms faster, has a better escape skill and curves up much earlier in the game. He's very vulnerable to a concentrated effort to stop him, but that's rarely something you can count on pubs to do.

I dont understand why everyone says they have mana problems with necro here...i can spam his Q and ult on cd without needing mana, and i go threads never arcane... Sadist gives you back so much mana that any mana regen item is a wasted slot for me on this hero (no matter what role i play him as). As for radiance, necro is one of the very few heroes I get it on if im stomping, any other hero has better stomp alternatives.

I mean if you are bad at last hitting and denying I can understand needing mana, otherwise killing 3 creeps will replenish your mana from Q, killing a hero will fill you up with 600 mana from your ult...why would you ever need mana regen aside from feeding mana to your team.

Elerion_sl said:

Nutron: Radiance on ANY hero before 20 minutes will let you stomp the pub. Necro is honestly one of the weakest heroes to rush Radiance on. He basically has built in Radiance, what he needs is survivability and mana to keep it going. But yes, any pub game in which you can get a sub-20 Radiance you will stomp hard anyway.

Jozu: He can ruin any game, period. Any game with a PL instantly becomes about the PL, because from the late-mid game he will ruin your day if you haven't dedicated significant resources to stopping him. He has a power level comparable to Spectre in the late game, but is also a rather strong laner, farms faster, has a better escape skill and curves up much earlier in the game. He's very vulnerable to a concentrated effort to stop him, but that's rarely something you can count on pubs to do.

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Drow Ranger should definately be removed from the game.

Nutron_sl said:

I dont understand why everyone says they have mana problems with necro here...i can spam his Q and ult on cd without needing mana, and i go threads never arcane... Sadist gives you back so much mana that any mana regen item is a wasted slot for me on this hero (no matter what role i play him as). As for radiance, necro is one of the very few heroes I get it on if im stomping, any other hero has better stomp alternatives.

I mean if you are bad at last hitting and denying I can understand needing mana, otherwise killing 3 creeps will replenish your mana from Q, killing a hero will fill you up with 600 mana from your ult...why would you ever need mana regen aside from feeding mana to your team.

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Once you level up Sadist, mana is not a problem while farming. That's not the case in team fights, unless you are lucky enough to get a quick kill or have tons of creeps around.

A level 11 Necrolyte with no items has 611 mana. Death Pulse costs 185, Level 2 Scythe costs 340 mana. Without mana items, you won't even have mana for two pulses + ulti.

A level 11 Necrolyte with just int threads and radiance (because he rushed rad) has 715 mana. That's JUST enough for 2x Pulse + Scythe. Note that said Necrolyte has 834 health and 3.5 armor, and thus crumples like a wet paper bag to focus fire. And you can bet you will be focused with that Radiance.

Threads + Radiance is incidentally about what you can expect to have in an "average" game after 20 minutes unless you're getting fed or have free farm. That's 300GPM, which is slightly more than 5 creep kills per minute.

Now, let's say you use that 6550 gold threads+radiance would cost, and buy Wand (509), Arcanes (1450), Meka (2306), Point Booster (1200) and Vita booster (1100) instead. The level 11 Necrolyte now has 614 mana from items, meaning 1225 mana in total. That's enough for Meka (150), Scythe (340) and four Pulses (740 - needs to regen 5 mana to have enough). This Necrolyte also has 8 more armor and 852 more HP (not counting additional heal from pulses) than the int threads + radiance Necro.
(You could go bracers into drums instead of wand and a booster if you wanted to, for better chasing but slightly lower pools)

Of course, it's all pretty irrelevant if you have a sub-20 minute Radiance without forsaking all other items. If you can pull that off, you're so far ahead that it doesn't really matter if it's the right item - you're winning anyway.

You basicaly made my point for me...I'm talking about pub stomping, not an "ideal necrolyte build" where i would never ever go radiance. Hell if i wasnt winning mid badly and didnt kill him at least once, i would not go radiance either. Radiance is one of those items that if you get sub 20 minutes while you are already doing well, you can stomp very hard with it the next 10-15 minutes making for an enjoyable rambo-like rampage

The only other hero I would consider getting radiance on is lone druid...I wouldnt even get it on doom or BS.

As for mana usage, you are forgetting about wand which will give me enough for a 3rd pulse...If you manage to get 3 pulses off and an ult at lvl 11 and you get no kills to get mana back, you are doing something horribly wrong with necrostomp. I've played him over 20 times and have never had mana issues with him. Even in lane phase if you are mid, the small camp is an easy source of mana if your mid lane is pushed. 5 kills per minute and no denies is pretty horrible

If you wanna build a teamfighting useful hero, by all means go mek and tanky items. I build stomp items into tanky items cause I like dominating bad pubs (yes there are a ton of them in very high). I would never build him this way in ixdl or organised games... I would still go threads more often than not unless i had to spam heal to protect my carry without getting kills. Who cares about not dying in a shitty pub game if you have nothing that allows you to kill others while your carry obviously failed at farming and has notihng. I build every hero to dominate unless im playing with a stack.

Sides, this is all a moot point, because you build items depending on how the game is going, your teammates, time, how your farm is going, etc... Anyone that goes same build over and over is bad and needs to learn how to adapt.

Elerion_sl said:

Once you level up Sadist, mana is not a problem while farming. That's not the case in team fights, unless you are lucky enough to get a quick kill or have tons of creeps around.

A level 11 Necrolyte with no items has 611 mana. Death Pulse costs 185, Level 2 Scythe costs 340 mana. Without mana items, you won't even have mana for two pulses + ulti.

A level 11 Necrolyte with just int threads and radiance (because he rushed rad) has 715 mana. That's JUST enough for 2x Pulse + Scythe. Note that said Necrolyte has 834 health and 3.5 armor, and thus crumples like a wet paper bag to focus fire. And you can bet you will be focused with that Radiance.

Threads + Radiance is incidentally about what you can expect to have in an "average" game after 20 minutes unless you're getting fed or have free farm. That's 300GPM, which is slightly more than 5 creep kills per minute.

Now, let's say you use that 6550 gold threads+radiance would cost, and buy Wand (509), Arcanes (1450), Meka (2306), Point Booster (1200) and Vita booster (1100) instead. The level 11 Necrolyte now has 614 mana from items, meaning 1225 mana in total. That's enough for Meka (150), Scythe (340) and four Pulses (740 - needs to regen 5 mana to have enough). This Necrolyte also has 8 more armor and 852 more HP (not counting additional heal from pulses) than the int threads + radiance Necro.
(You could go bracers into drums instead of wand and a booster if you wanted to, for better chasing but slightly lower pools)

Of course, it's all pretty irrelevant if you have a sub-20 minute Radiance without forsaking all other items. If you can pull that off, you're so far ahead that it doesn't really matter if it's the right item - you're winning anyway.

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I think it's all relevant in pub games. Radiance does synergize with him really well. But as you said, if you have a sub 20 min Rad your probably ahead already. Going for a Rad above 25 minutes is risky at best. I find Mek is one of the most cost effecient items in the game for almost any hero. Shit, you could put that thing on a carry and it wouldn't be the WORST item you could get. I do agree though that Necro might be in the top 5 for building a Radiance. Other heroes that come to mind are Alch, Blood, Sylla. But as a pure farming item I think BF or Midas is better. I think the buff to radiance was nice, but in pro games its still only picked up on Sylla, and usually to disrupt blink dagger heroes. Not arguing against you guys one way or the other, I just believe in pubs its all relative.

On a side note, never play this game drunk.

Penance_sl said:

I think it's all relevant in pub games. Radiance does synergize with him really well. But as you said, if you have a sub 20 min Rad your probably ahead already. Going for a Rad above 25 minutes is risky at best. I find Mek is one of the most cost effecient items in the game for almost any hero. Shit, you could put that thing on a carry and it wouldn't be the WORST item you could get. I do agree though that Necro might be in the top 5 for building a Radiance. Other heroes that come to mind are Alch, Blood, Sylla. But as a pure farming item I think BF or Midas is better. I think the buff to radiance was nice, but in pro games its still only picked up on Sylla, and usually to disrupt blink dagger heroes. Not arguing against you guys one way or the other, I just believe in pubs its all relative.

On a side note, never play this game drunk.

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Couldnt have said it better. I wouldnt even get a radiance past 20 mins, much less past 25. If their team was all stunners I would not get it either, etc... Arguing best item builds and shit is stupid anyway cause you need to adapt to what your role is, your lane, who you are up against, if you wanna win early/mid/late and what your role is during those times, what your teammates have, if they are good, what time it is, what lvl the other heroes are, if you have to stop one guy in particular to win, if you wanna push, if you need mobility, like...in all these scenarios, it would affect my item choice one way or another.

People who fail to realize this, also fail to adapt, and lose games badly with their perfect item build from reddit or watching one pro game.

blappie_sl said:

Drow Ranger should definitely be removed from the game.

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lolwut.

She is kind of terrible.

Im not so sure what the fuss is about w a Radiance anyway. i have bought it on weaver a few times to buff his kuchi and be annoying to escaping heroes w low HP, but it really isnt an x factor item imo. The cost is ridiculous and you can get a rapier instead and put out WAY more damage. I mean, if you are cool enough to farm a radiance no prob under 20 m, then holding a rapier shouldnt be shit, right!??!

But seriously, Necro heartstopper aura is more than enough if you are winning the game and outlvling your opponent. Like others have said, with the same gold cost, you could have went in many other directions, directions which could theoretically get you just as many kill secures as if you had a Radiance in the first place. (think about it, radiance is one of those items where you are trying to be a dick, w Necro, you effectively only have to get your opponent HP pool down to half or so, and his ult cleans up. There really is no need for a radiance IMO.)

For the love of god, stop posting your wood league insight