DOTA 2

Elerion

Elerion

N00b
735
46
He's asking if another build would be more efficient. In a low tier game, if you can farm a 25 minute radiance, that's probably the most efficient build on Spectre. Compared to the other heroes in the game, it's the equivalent of a 16-20minute radiance in a high skill game.

Even Burning would have issues farming a 16 minute radiance in a game where no one stacks, the support pushes the lane and steals last hits, no one harasses your lane opponents, and you randomly end up with 4 dudes sitting in your lane jerking off.
 
Pyros

Pyros

<Silver Donator>
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Sutekh_sl said:
Are you people blind? If you want to sit in low tier and be a fucking scrub forever go ahead and farm your 25 minute radiance and lose and be blamed for failing to carry.

If you actually want to improve at how you play the game push yourself when it comes to timing on your items.
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A realistic time isn't 16mins, it's like 20mins. 25mins is a bad time but still will work out at low tier. It doesn't matter that it's a horrible time at high tier because you're playing low tier. You should strive to improve but there's no point in giving figures that are unrealistic for a given tier. If you could farm it in 16mins, you wouldn't be in the low tier. You're not gonna fail to carry in a low tier game with a 25mins radiance, because by 25mins the enemy AM MIGHT have a battlefury, maybe, most likely he has a perseverance, brown boots and a quelling blade.
 
A

an accordion_sl

shitlord
2,162
8
Radiance rushing kinda sucks on spectre anyways. Unless your team is already winning and their supports are underfarmed (at which point you can honestly build anything), it won't be any stronger than max desolate with diffusal.
 
Cybsled

Cybsled

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
16,625
13,120
Honestly I think a lot of you "zomg play PRO or GTFO!" posters are scaring away the new guys. Like when Dreagan wanted to play, I saw lots of you trying to be helpful...by posting Advanced DOTA2 info. It's like a kid who wants to play a sport for the first time and you start bombarding him with advanced professional level information, when all the kid really needs it to learn the bare bone basics of the game.

You know a time tested tactic for scaring people away from trying something? By introducing it to them by over-complicating it.

You know how to sell something? Make it seem simple, it matches their needs, and introduce it in a fashion that is not overwhelming.
 
B

bayr_sl

shitlord
715
0
arguing about the optimal time for a hypothetical bad player to build a mediocre item in highly variable situations. This is Dota 2 discussion
 
T

TecKnoe

Molten Core Raider
3,182
51
Cybsled_sl said:
Honestly I think a lot of you "zomg play PRO or GTFO!" posters are scaring away the new guys. Like when Dreagan wanted to play, I saw lots of you trying to be helpful...by posting Advanced DOTA2 info. It's like a kid who wants to play a sport for the first time and you start bombarding him with advanced professional level information, when all the kid really needs it to learn the bare bone basics of the game.

You know a time tested tactic for scaring people away from trying something? By introducing it to them by over-complicating it.

You know how to sell something? Make it seem simple, it matches their needs, and introduce it in a fashion that is not overwhelming.
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damn is that why he went to league of lesbos?

someone should show sylar this thread, he got 25min rad last night vs dk as spec.
 
G

gmstbfla_sl

shitlord
141
0
Cybsled_sl said:
Honestly I think a lot of you "zomg play PRO or GTFO!" posters are scaring away the new guys. Like when Dreagan wanted to play, I saw lots of you trying to be helpful...by posting Advanced DOTA2 info. It's like a kid who wants to play a sport for the first time and you start bombarding him with advanced professional level information, when all the kid really needs it to learn the bare bone basics of the game.

You know a time tested tactic for scaring people away from trying something? By introducing it to them by over-complicating it.

You know how to sell something? Make it seem simple, it matches their needs, and introduce it in a fashion that is not overwhelming.
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Look, if you can't hit a corner fade route into double coverage, you really shouldn't be playing back yard touch football. You're never going to be able to compete with Tom Brady if all you do is toss 5 yard dumpoffs. Get it together.
 
Dandain

Dandain

Trakanon Raider
2,092
917
I think its important to know that a 15 minute radiance is elite level lane control and farm and that its possible if for no other reason than to see the potential for improvement. I think most players in low tier think that the potential item acquisition speed is much slower than the theoretical max. Sutekh is wrong if for no other reason that he argues beyond the reality that every dota game is relative. If you've got 30 cs in 10 minutes that is not good in a high skill game in a freefarm lane, but 30 cs in 10 minutes in the lowest bracket of dota may as well be a god.

This is the same reason that when someone picks up dota they shouldn't be afraid of playing some carry role in low tier. Dota is a game of relativity, just look at the types of progames that occur, 1 hour farm outs with great defensive plays and 10-15 total kills and 500 cs on carries and on the flip side all out aggression games with nearly 2 kills a minute and in games like that you may still have a top total cs of around 200 by the end after 40 minutes. If you are aware that the game balance will shift as you improve and that item benchmarks are fluidly based exclusively in the game you are playing. If you make a 25 minute radiance, and is the fastest/first big item on the map relatively speaking there is a huge chance you'll end up winning if for no other reason than the farm on a hard carry will outpace anyone else on the enemy team.

At low tier, treads wand bracer at 15 or 16 minutes will put you damn close to being the top farmer in the game, by vhigh, that's like a 7-8 minute amount of farm. But overtime I think that if you're always focused on improvement and understand what's possible you'll just find yourself climbing up the skill brackets. Its a fine line between explaining to a new player what's possible, and what's passable. They are two distinct things, and they are equally important if you actually intend to get better at this game. If the fastest radiance you've ever farmed is 30 minutes, you know that's an issue. If the next time its 27, then 25, then 22, then 20 etc, you'll find yourself in a higher skill bracket from that as a consequence of attention to detail.

TLDR: Each game of dota is relative, even if sutekh wants to argue otherwise.
 
Dandain

Dandain

Trakanon Raider
2,092
917
They just patched in guilds, I made Rerolled.org - tag RR.org

I'm just gonna hand out invite privledges to anyone, I suppose if that fills it up with non-board turds we can change it then, if anyone official or some shit wants leader I'll pass it.
 
Jozu

Jozu

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
6,959
6,268
How is Faceless not more effective as a carry than AM if both are max lvl with equal feed?

The general consensus is that AM is the hardest carry, and one of the most powerful heroes in the game when he gets max feed. But after watching faceless vs AM when they were equal farm and lvl, Faceless wiped the floor with AM. Obviously player skill has something to do with it, but Voids time lock and chrono pretty much annihilate AM. Even if AM pops Manta, void can chrono and wipe out illusions w bfury and basically lock up AM with his bash. Obviously if AM got the jump on faceless and chrono was on CD then maybe he has a shot, but damn Faceless is fucking a BEAST once he gets his bfury, deadalus and Manta.

(Im asking this as an inquiry, not a de-facto statement that Faceless is better. Jut trying to formulate scenarios in which AM could nullify Faceless ult and bash.)
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Jozu_sl said:
How is Faceless not more effective as a carry than AM if both are max lvl with equal feed?

The general consensus is that AM is the hardest carry, and one of the most powerful heroes in the game when he gets max feed. But after watching faceless vs AM when they were equal farm and lvl, Faceless wiped the floor with AM. Obviously player skill has something to do with it, but Voids time lock and chrono pretty much annihilate AM. Even if AM pops Manta, void can chrono and wipe out illusions w bfury and basically lock up AM with his bash. Obviously if AM got the jump on faceless and chrono was on CD then maybe he has a shot, but damn Faceless is fucking a BEAST once he gets his bfury, deadalus and Manta.
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The consensus is NOT that AM is the hardest carry. The consensus is that AM reaches 6 slots faster than almost everyone else, that he gets there easier than most carries because of his natural hard to gank status and that he's definitely among the strongest lategame carries when 6 slotted. Combine these and AM is arguably the strongest carry in the game, but assuming you can somehow keep up on farm with him with a void, then yes void is better. Assuming uninterupted farm on both sides though, AM will hit 6slots 10-15mins earlier than Void, just by virtue of his low cd blink. So Void can never keep up unless the AM is getting constantly ganked while void is free farm or void gets fed tons of kills or towers and such things. And when AM has 1 more item than void, it's a pretty even fight that often favors AM.

Also spectre and PL can outcarry AM, again, with equal amounts of farm. Similarily though, neither can keep up with AM(PL is probably the closest if gets a good start).

Alchemist and Doom are really the only carries that can keep up with AM on farm, but generally at equal farm both of these will lose to an AM, so they need MORE farm than AM to outcarry him even though they farm at the same speed roughly.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Haha game 2 of Zenith vs LGD.Int in Alienware, fun picks, Timbersaw+Razor+Wisp+Treant+Puck.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Nutron_sl said:
got a link?? no spoilz ;D

you guys should watch the one i linked, just a flurry of clutch plays for 60 minutes
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It was just played so vod isn't up yet, will be on BTS stream videos though. And watched what you posted when it aired yesterday it was a pretty cool game.

I hope Zenith doesn't get scared like last year and keep the cool strats going for TI3. Last year I feel leading to TI2 they had a ton of cool strats, and then when they got there they simply played normal dota and they got owned at it. They need to keep in mind their style when they pick.

Also it seems Tree is gonna be the top pick/ban of TI3. Even the chinese teams who tend to often be a bit behind on trends are starting to pick him(Tongfu did a few times at least). Interestingly, after this week's patch, Kunkka can remove Living Armor in half a second with a rank 2 or high torrent, and Kunkka was kinda coming back to the meta so might see more of him if Tree keeps getting picked. Slark can do that too but much shittier range.
 
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