DOTA 2

Pyros

Pyros

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Cybsled_sl said:
There are a ton of pro games with insane comebacks. That DK vs. VG match is a prime example. DK had them on the ropes, pulled back to farm, and ended up losing to lycan+alch.
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There are, but there's also things such as not having a line up that can actually come back against the enemy lineup. When you have a fed Ember spirit on the other team and your best lategame hero is a weaver who was offlane and has 0 farm, against doom/panda/rubick/rhasta(all heroes that can easily kill or deal with weaver), game's fucking over. I mean you can try to play and hope they make several mistakes but they're chinese teams, they're not gonna make mistakes and with Rhasta they have the pushing advantage too, they can easily fight into all your shitty aoes with the early mek on doom and raze your base 5mins later, there's no farming weaver for 40mins. Splitpushing Furion maybe, against rubick/rhasta/doom though, all of which would rush a blink dagger, your chances of success are pretty much 0 even if you're Bulldog.

The DK vs VG comeback wasn't as much as a come back as the numbers might have shown. If you look even at the early fights with 10k deficit, DK had trouble winning the fights entirely. VG had a strong carry lineup, got good decent farm early on and was a very risky setup to fight into(Lycan and Prophet will chase your ass so retreating isn't an option most of the time). Yeah yeah they were behind a lot of gold for a long time, but that's not necessarily an issue if you have a stronger teamfight and a stronger lategame. You will turtle and force them into a disadvantageous fight with buybacks and shit and that's why DK was so scared to finish the game and eventually lost.

The Newbee game though, there was no fucking chance in hell. Ember Spirit was already way too big and they basically had ONE stun, rest were shitty slow and mostly magic damage, how are you stopping him? They had the fed Doom too who will outfarm everyone else and 2 of the best teamfight supports due to having a ton of CC. Just not happening, it was a fair gg call. Granted, their draft was fucking trash. The chinese teams play each other often, they know when it's over from having played a ton before.

Was a shitty finals but eh. Should help other teams become better next year, generally how it goes, winning teams get complacent, other teams work harder to catch up and perform better.
 
Genjiro

Genjiro

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Was LGD, but yea, in any other game DK would have gone for all 3 lanes of rax and ended it but TI makes people play ultra safe. And prophet was on DK.
 
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gmstbfla_sl

shitlord
141
0
Chinese teams make mistakes. They throw leads. They aren't some breed of super-gamers impervious to nerves and bad decisions. It's the same line of thinking that had people saying wisp would never work against the Chinese because they were so good that they could never be caught out of position. We all saw how well that worked out.

The point is, in sports you play a competition out to its bitter end, no matter how far behind you are. The Broncos weren't allowed to gg out of the Super Bowl when they fell behind 36-0. Their chances of winning from that point were vanishingly small, but they kept playing regardless. The only time its acceptable to tap out is when your whole team is dead, buybacks are unavailable, the enemy has broken high ground, and they're in the process of entirely destroying your base.

Yeah, VG in all likelihood would have lost badly anyways, but I would have liked to see them at least give it the old college try instead of just quitting. If there are ever real sponsors involved, I'm sure they would have the same point of view.
 
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an accordion_sl

shitlord
2,162
8
gmstbfla_sl said:
Chinese teams make mistakes. They throw leads. They aren't some breed of super-gamers impervious to nerves and bad decisions. It's the same line of thinking that had people saying wisp would never work against the Chinese because they were so good that they could never be caught out of position. We all saw how well that worked out.

The point is, in sports you play a competition out to its bitter end, no matter how far behind you are. The Broncos weren't allowed to gg out of the Super Bowl when they fell behind 36-0. Their chances of winning from that point were vanishingly small, but they kept playing regardless. The only time its acceptable to tap out is when your whole team is dead, buybacks are unavailable, the enemy has broken high ground, and they're in the process of entirely destroying your base.

Yeah, VG in all likelihood would have lost badly anyways, but I would have liked to see them at least give it the old college try instead of just quitting. If there are ever real sponsors involved, I'm sure they would have the same point of view.
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You're making up rules because you didn't like the outcome of the game. If a team determines that a game is unwinnable, then the game is unwinnable. Not because there will be no mistakes that they can capitalize on, but because they will not be playing in the right mindset. It can work against the team who doesn't GG out and further demoralizes the players.
 
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gmstbfla_sl

shitlord
141
0
an accordion_sl said:
You're making up rules because you didn't like the outcome of the game. If a team determines that a game is unwinnable, then the game is unwinnable. Not because there will be no mistakes that they can capitalize on, but because they will not be playing in the right mindset. It can work against the team who doesn't GG out and further demoralizes the players.
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I actually liked the outcome of the game. Newbee dominated everyone they played after the group stages and completely deserved the win. They even did it while starting from the hardest possible position.

And I'm not making up rules. Almost no major sporting events allows forfeiting absent a medical necessity. And even if they technically do allow it, it'sstronglyfrowned upon. I think that concept should be applied in dota. It's your job to go out there and do the best you can until the game is over. If you can't handle losing without going on tilt, then maybe you just aren't cut out for public competition.
 
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Nutron_sl

shitlord
712
0
gmstbfla_sl said:
I actually liked the outcome of the game. Newbee dominated everyone they played after the group stages and completely deserved the win. They even did it while starting from the hardest possible position.

And I'm not making up rules. Almost no major sporting events allows forfeiting absent a medical necessity. And even if they technically do allow it, it'sstronglyfrowned upon. I think that concept should be applied in dota. It's your job to go out there and do the best you can until the game is over. If you can't handle losing without going on tilt, then maybe you just aren't cut out for public competition.
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no.
 
Cybsled

Cybsled

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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In a "best of" series, there are strategic advantages to a FF. You don't get exhausted, emotionally it is healthier than getting shit on, and it also lets you move past the loss more quickly then having to dwell on it for the duration of the match.
 
zombiewizardhawk

zombiewizardhawk

Potato del Grande
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gmstbfla_sl said:
I actually liked the outcome of the game. Newbee dominated everyone they played after the group stages and completely deserved the win. They even did it while starting from the hardest possible position.

And I'm not making up rules. Almost no major sporting events allows forfeiting absent a medical necessity. And even if they technically do allow it, it'sstronglyfrowned upon. I think that concept should be applied in dota. It's your job to go out there and do the best you can until the game is over. If you can't handle losing without going on tilt, then maybe you just aren't cut out for public competition.
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You're right. I've definitely never seen a professional basketball, football, baseball, etc. game where a team doesn't give up. They're always giving it 100% with the full intent of winning. I've also never seen or heard of players in PGA events backing out of a tournament once it's clear they have no shot at winning or even placing decently. Professional fighters definitely never tap out. Those things never happen.
 
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Luthair

Lord Nagafen Raider
1,247
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gmstbfla_sl said:
Chinese teams make mistakes. They throw leads. They aren't some breed of super-gamers impervious to nerves and bad decisions. It's the same line of thinking that had people saying wisp would never work against the Chinese because they were so good that they could never be caught out of position. We all saw how well that worked out.

The point is, in sports you play a competition out to its bitter end, no matter how far behind you are. The Broncos weren't allowed to gg out of the Super Bowl when they fell behind 36-0. Their chances of winning from that point were vanishingly small, but they kept playing regardless. The only time its acceptable to tap out is when your whole team is dead, buybacks are unavailable, the enemy has broken high ground, and they're in the process of entirely destroying your base.

Yeah, VG in all likelihood would have lost badly anyways, but I would have liked to see them at least give it the old college try instead of just quitting. If there are ever real sponsors involved, I'm sure they would have the same point of view.
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Ya no one in sports would evertap outorthrow in the towel
 
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niss_sl

shitlord
281
1
That victory interview on stage was so pitiful I couldn't even stand watching it. It was such a drag translating it into Chinese and then the 12 year old looking boys seemingly had trouble answering questions as well.
 
Nite1

Nite1

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There kids and in a country where they dont speak the language of course the interview was awkward. How could you expect any differently?
 
Sutekh

Sutekh

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If these fuckin Faulty Armors wanna earn our money they fuckin need ta speak american first. USA USA USA
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Sutekh_sl said:
If these fuckin Faulty Armors wanna earn our money they fuckin need ta speak american first. USA USA USA
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Bit too late to set the conditions, they're already gone with all the money. Maybe next year.

Rumors starting to pop. Mason tweeted he's done with competitive gaming already so guess that means Fear is back, other less confirmed stuff about LGD(not that too many people care about them). More interested in the Alliance and Na'vi changes.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Tenks_sl said:
I don't think the way Mason played any viable "TI-level" teams would sniff at him
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Well there's a bunch of not high tier level teams who would probably recruit him if he cared. Anyway there's worse summer jobs than this, making 150k for a few months of "work", no reason to bother playing longer.
 
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Tenks

Bronze Knight of the Realm
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Pyros_sl said:
Well there's a bunch of not high tier level teams who would probably recruit him if he cared. Anyway there's worse summer jobs than this, making 150k for a few months of "work", no reason to bother playing longer.
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From everything I've heard about the guy it seems like he's impossible to get along with and would probably be a cancer. He was probably kept in check since he was such a small fish on EG so he couldn't hope to have an ego.
 
Sutekh

Sutekh

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THE FUCKING ROAD TO TI5 STARTS NOW BOYS. FUCK YEAH!

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